On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************



We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the
difference.


Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*

On May 28, 8:43 pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*

You are just one confused guy when it comes to boat maintenance. ;-)

I would suggest that folks here refrain from taking your advice on
that topic in the future.

John H. wrote in
:

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They
can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!


What's he want, about $80/gallon, now? It used to be $30/gallon in 1997
when they tried to force me to use it in my Yamaha Waverunner jetski.

Just for reference, Yamaha 2-stroke oil was made by Chevron, who sells
the same oil with Chevron's label on it for about 35% of what a Yamaha
dealer wanted. I suspect Yamaha's 4-stroke superdooper oil is the same.
Yamaha doesn't have an oil refinery, either, like Amsoil.

A man just can't go wrong putting Rotella-T heavy duty oil in anything.
My Honda EU3000is 3KW 4-stoke gas generator must have 5000 hours on it
powering my work van. Cranks up on the same spark plug that's been in it
for years on the first tick over. It's never had anything but Rotella-T
in it, just like my diesel engines. My 4-stroke, 250cc Honda scooter
runs on Rotella-T, too.

Use what the truckers KNOW makes a truck last for a million
miles.....Rotella-T and Velo 500. Both available at any WalMart without
having to take out a loan....even today.

Question - Does NMMA, who manufacture and sell motors, want an outboard
to last forever on some super oil.....or do they want an outboard to last
until the end of the payment book so you can buy another one?

Don't answer too quick.....Think about it a while....Sleep on it.

Try this one - How many really old outboards do you see that run on
Quaker State SAE 30 motor oil mixed 15:1 on your lake? How many not-so-
old outboards do you see that run on NMMA TC-W3 mixed 50 or 100:1 on that
lake? Take a little poll next time you're out. There's those old blue
Evinrudes, all greasy and such....then there's new outboards back about
5-10 years with 100:1 oil injection. What happened to the thousands of
old oil injected 2-strokers using TC-W3 NMMA fancy oil at 100:1?? Sleep
on that, too.

Just an observation taken over years of cruising around wasting gas....
(c; Remember the Ficht?...(c; NMMA certified that one....???

On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*

On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet..

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment..
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

On May 29, 9:55*am, wrote:
On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote:





On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.

On May 29, 10:00*am, wrote:

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That ain't backyard boating.. this is:http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21
- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn that canoe's sweet.- Hide quoted text -


Here's some more of the Warcanoe.. funny, a guy emailed me once. He
told me that a real war canoe was supposed to be 25-30 feet long and I
should maybe call mine a skirmish canoe

http://smallboats.com/boats_warcanoe.htm

Named after me mum...

On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:10:12 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 29, 10:00*am, wrote:

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That ain't backyard boating.. this is:http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21
- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Damn that canoe's sweet.- Hide quoted text -


Here's some more of the Warcanoe.. funny, a guy emailed me once. He
told me that a real war canoe was supposed to be 25-30 feet long and I
should maybe call mine a skirmish canoe

http://smallboats.com/boats_warcanoe.htm

Named after me mum...

That is just too beautiful for words. It's truly a work of art, Scott.

I assume you're holding off on building my boat, "The Herring Skiff?"

http://www.smallboats.com/images/skiff2thb.jpg

Nice stuff!

--
John *H*

wrote:


That ain't backyard boating.. this is:
http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21


Just,

I noticed your "Stupid Dog" photos. We have a Chow Mix (probably with a
German Shepard", that we adopted as a puppy. The rescue agency
"marketed" her as a Keeshond, because as a puppy she looked exactly like
a Keeshond puppy. We named her Rocky, after Rocky Marciano, because she
had that fat head and fat nose that Marciano had. She also had that
strong bull headed determination / attitude that made Marciano (a boxer
with little boxing skills) a success.

Chows can be very strong willed dogs, who do a great job of pretending
to be stupid. That way, they can do only what they want to do, and
pretend they don't understand you, it forced me to train her completely
differently than my other dogs, but she can be so lovable.

We took her up to the lake last week, and she fought to stay out of the
water, until she saw there was mud under the water. It was funny
watching her lying down in water 10" deep, trying to figure out how to
roll around in the mud without getting her face wet.