|
Confusion over engine oils
At one time I asked Bill Grannis if he had a recommendation on which oil I
should use in my new Yamaha 4 stroke. He responded with information on TC-W3 approved oils which are used in a 2-stroke. He quickly realized the confusion and provided another answer applicable to four stroke engines. Please note that neither Bill nor I recommended using a TC-W3 oil in a four stroke engine. Here is part of his most informative answer: ***************************************** On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** The link provides some alternatives for those buying oil for four stroke marine engines. Thanks again to Bill Grannis! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
John H. wrote in
: On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! The fact that some wags came up with a new "certification" in order to sell more expensive oil doesn't mean the oils they are trying to sell are any better than anyone else's oils. What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. |
Confusion over engine oils
HK wrote in
: What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 8:43 pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote: John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! -- John *H* You are just one confused guy when it comes to boat maintenance. ;-) I would suggest that folks here refrain from taking your advice on that topic in the future. |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? He's the same as always and still worth ignoring. Join the club - it makes the group so much nicer. |
Confusion over engine oils
|
Confusion over engine oils
John H. wrote in
: Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! What's he want, about $80/gallon, now? It used to be $30/gallon in 1997 when they tried to force me to use it in my Yamaha Waverunner jetski. Just for reference, Yamaha 2-stroke oil was made by Chevron, who sells the same oil with Chevron's label on it for about 35% of what a Yamaha dealer wanted. I suspect Yamaha's 4-stroke superdooper oil is the same. Yamaha doesn't have an oil refinery, either, like Amsoil. A man just can't go wrong putting Rotella-T heavy duty oil in anything. My Honda EU3000is 3KW 4-stoke gas generator must have 5000 hours on it powering my work van. Cranks up on the same spark plug that's been in it for years on the first tick over. It's never had anything but Rotella-T in it, just like my diesel engines. My 4-stroke, 250cc Honda scooter runs on Rotella-T, too. Use what the truckers KNOW makes a truck last for a million miles.....Rotella-T and Velo 500. Both available at any WalMart without having to take out a loan....even today. Question - Does NMMA, who manufacture and sell motors, want an outboard to last forever on some super oil.....or do they want an outboard to last until the end of the payment book so you can buy another one? Don't answer too quick.....Think about it a while....Sleep on it. Try this one - How many really old outboards do you see that run on Quaker State SAE 30 motor oil mixed 15:1 on your lake? How many not-so- old outboards do you see that run on NMMA TC-W3 mixed 50 or 100:1 on that lake? Take a little poll next time you're out. There's those old blue Evinrudes, all greasy and such....then there's new outboards back about 5-10 years with 100:1 oil injection. What happened to the thousands of old oil injected 2-strokers using TC-W3 NMMA fancy oil at 100:1?? Sleep on that, too. Just an observation taken over years of cruising around wasting gas.... (c; Remember the Ficht?...(c; NMMA certified that one....??? |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? Not bad, Larry. Here, I just mostly watch the antics. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:17 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com