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Confusion over engine oils
At one time I asked Bill Grannis if he had a recommendation on which oil I
should use in my new Yamaha 4 stroke. He responded with information on TC-W3 approved oils which are used in a 2-stroke. He quickly realized the confusion and provided another answer applicable to four stroke engines. Please note that neither Bill nor I recommended using a TC-W3 oil in a four stroke engine. Here is part of his most informative answer: ***************************************** On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** The link provides some alternatives for those buying oil for four stroke marine engines. Thanks again to Bill Grannis! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
John H. wrote in
: On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! The fact that some wags came up with a new "certification" in order to sell more expensive oil doesn't mean the oils they are trying to sell are any better than anyone else's oils. What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. |
Confusion over engine oils
HK wrote in
: What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 8:43 pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote: John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! -- John *H* You are just one confused guy when it comes to boat maintenance. ;-) I would suggest that folks here refrain from taking your advice on that topic in the future. |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? He's the same as always and still worth ignoring. Join the club - it makes the group so much nicer. |
Confusion over engine oils
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Confusion over engine oils
John H. wrote in
: Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! What's he want, about $80/gallon, now? It used to be $30/gallon in 1997 when they tried to force me to use it in my Yamaha Waverunner jetski. Just for reference, Yamaha 2-stroke oil was made by Chevron, who sells the same oil with Chevron's label on it for about 35% of what a Yamaha dealer wanted. I suspect Yamaha's 4-stroke superdooper oil is the same. Yamaha doesn't have an oil refinery, either, like Amsoil. A man just can't go wrong putting Rotella-T heavy duty oil in anything. My Honda EU3000is 3KW 4-stoke gas generator must have 5000 hours on it powering my work van. Cranks up on the same spark plug that's been in it for years on the first tick over. It's never had anything but Rotella-T in it, just like my diesel engines. My 4-stroke, 250cc Honda scooter runs on Rotella-T, too. Use what the truckers KNOW makes a truck last for a million miles.....Rotella-T and Velo 500. Both available at any WalMart without having to take out a loan....even today. Question - Does NMMA, who manufacture and sell motors, want an outboard to last forever on some super oil.....or do they want an outboard to last until the end of the payment book so you can buy another one? Don't answer too quick.....Think about it a while....Sleep on it. Try this one - How many really old outboards do you see that run on Quaker State SAE 30 motor oil mixed 15:1 on your lake? How many not-so- old outboards do you see that run on NMMA TC-W3 mixed 50 or 100:1 on that lake? Take a little poll next time you're out. There's those old blue Evinrudes, all greasy and such....then there's new outboards back about 5-10 years with 100:1 oil injection. What happened to the thousands of old oil injected 2-strokers using TC-W3 NMMA fancy oil at 100:1?? Sleep on that, too. Just an observation taken over years of cruising around wasting gas.... (c; Remember the Ficht?...(c; NMMA certified that one....??? |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? Not bad, Larry. Here, I just mostly watch the antics. |
Confusion over engine oils
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Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
HK wrote in news:_t- : Not bad, Larry. Here, I just mostly watch the antics. I noticed you've cooled off from the "old days"....(c; I haven't been watching wrecked.boats for some time, but got bored so added a few old groups I used to watch. It hasn't changed much in all these years...scary if your motor is dead and some of them approach you on the river. No boats, tonight. Thunder/lightning/raining like hell earlier... There's virtually no boating discussions of any consequence taking place in rec.boats anymore. We've got a bunch of non-boaters, casual boaters, and certifiable idiots making up the majority now. Most of the actual boaters have drifted away. Evolution in action. |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote: John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside! Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't say I did something bad then! In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy! -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 8:48*pm, DK wrote:
Larry wrote: HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. *You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. *Such a facility still illudes me. *It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? He's the same as always and still worth ignoring. *Join the club - it makes the group so much nicer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Harry calling a certified mechanic a "wag"......that's rich! |
Confusion over engine oils
Harry calling a certified mechanic a "wag"......that's rich!- Hide quoted text - Screw off Chicken ****.... |
Confusion over engine oils
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Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 10:30*pm, Larry wrote:
HK wrote in news:_t- : Not bad, Larry. Here, I just mostly watch the antics. I noticed you've cooled off from the "old days"....(c; I haven't been watching wrecked.boats for some time, but got bored so added a few old groups I used to watch. *It hasn't changed much in all these years...scary if your motor is dead and some of them approach you on the river. No boats, tonight. *Thunder/lightning/raining like hell earlier... If you have not been here in a while, you may not understand why this post is soooo ironic.. Anyway, just to fill you in, many of the more serious regulars took a lot of their online time to a monitored group Chuck Gould started about a month ago he http://boatingforum.proboards91.com/ You will find that some stayed here, some frequent both groups, and there are one or two who just come here to try to start trouble between the two. There were three or four trolls at first, most of us left here at wrecked boats decided not to converse with them here (on any level) as you will notice if you stick around, and it has been a lot nicer. I see overnight we still have two really doing their best to troll anyone out they can, working off each other but as you may also note, we are all holding our powder (I tranked loogie and have him tied in a closet, his kids are tormenting him now as we speak...he is gonna' kill us when he gets out;). The group has been pretty nice for a couple of weeks even if many of us left here are dry docked for one reason or another. There is only one real troll left and then there is some new guy chading loogie. If we can all hold to our agreement I suspect all but one troll will eventually go away too. The one that is left will eventually be on so many kill files, it really won't matter. Since the split for better or for worse, several new and even some old school readers are popping up to the surface as it were. Harry keeps saying the group is dead, I think it has just taken a cruise to better water. One of the trolls may answer this, you will notice that most of us left here will ignore the response.. we already know what it says anyway;) Nice to see you back Larry, stick around, we could use the input. In case you don't know my new sock puppet, JWAFM (me) is Scotty from SmallBoats. |
Confusion over engine oils
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Confusion over engine oils
John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:14:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On May 28, 8:48 pm, DK wrote: Larry wrote: HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? He's the same as always and still worth ignoring. Join the club - it makes the group so much nicer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Harry calling a certified mechanic a "wag"......that's rich! Loogy! Check your email. Package on the way, over. I hope you didn't send him part of your brain, since you have so little left. |
Confusion over engine oils
wrote:
On May 28, 10:30 pm, Larry wrote: HK wrote in news:_t- : Not bad, Larry. Here, I just mostly watch the antics. I noticed you've cooled off from the "old days"....(c; I haven't been watching wrecked.boats for some time, but got bored so added a few old groups I used to watch. It hasn't changed much in all these years...scary if your motor is dead and some of them approach you on the river. No boats, tonight. Thunder/lightning/raining like hell earlier... If you have not been here in a while, you may not understand why this post is soooo ironic.. Anyway, just to fill you in, many of the more serious regulars took a lot of their online time to a monitored group Chuck Gould started about a month ago he http://boatingforum.proboards91.com/ You will find that some stayed here, some frequent both groups, and there are one or two who just come here to try to start trouble between the two. There were three or four trolls at first, most of us left here at wrecked boats decided not to converse with them here (on any level) as you will notice if you stick around, and it has been a lot nicer. What has happened is that rec.boats is more vapid than ever. |
Confusion over engine oils
"John" wrote in
: interesting argument. What other company makes a 100 to 1 2 stroke oil that AMSOIL is repackaging? Most all 2 stroke oils still recomend 50:1 but AMSOIL is 100:1? Yamaha was recommending 100:1, at least the last time I checked but that was quite a while ago. Maybe 100:1 wasn't making it to the end of the warranty period and costing them money. I can't find out anything about whos oil Amsoil is rebottling. I suspect it might be because they buy oil on the open market, whoever's got the API rating the cheapest. That makes sense both businesswise and chemically. Everyone who thinks oil is different needs to take a little trip to an oil ship terminal and poke his/her head down into the bilge to see a little reality.... Oil, like fuel, comes from the oil market, a bunch of speculators and other nasty beasts buying and selling the oil on its way across the oceans to a large variety of refineries in some really terrible places. India is building a new super-refinery to handle the demand. Mid East crude will go to India to be refined into product and reshipped to the USA. Do you think every little supertanker will have special oil for every little oil company in America....or will they pour API SJ 15W-40 into a big tank and the corp beancounters will divvy it up at the bottling plants. I used to think oil was different, too, until I talked to the USCG forensic oil lab in MD on the phone. I asked them if there was any difference between Yamalube and Chevron TC-W3, as Chevron was making Yamalube at the time, or so I thought..... He told me he couldn't analyze ANY sample and come up with a brand name on it because from same bottle to same bottle IT WAS ALL DIFFERENT! This, I think, is more proof of the last statement in paragraph 3 above....they divvy it up and put their name on it, the cheapest way out at the most profits, same as every corporation on the planet. The oil lab said they could not point to a sample and say "That's Texaco TC-W3 you've got there." I was astonished, my vision of good oil smashed. If you see a tanker that hauls products like gas, diesel, lube oils, do try to get them to show you what's in those tanks before the slick bottling plants get it. It floats on a layer of SEAWATER ballast! God it was awful...yecch. Of course, Amsoil is made one quart at a time in a clean room chemistry lab by the finest chemical engineers on the planet who make every quart in its own special way and analyze ever quart so you KNOW it's the finest on the planet at the highest price.......right? Yeah, sure....(c; |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote: John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. |
Confusion over engine oils
wrote in news:46f38d0b-e4c0-49ee-a381-
: One of the trolls may answer this, you will notice that most of us left here will ignore the response.. we already know what it says anyway;) Nice to see you back Larry, stick around, we could use the input. In case you don't know my new sock puppet, JWAFM (me) is Scotty from SmallBoats. I usually just ignore the trolls, even pointed at me. I'm 62 and retired now and never get excited by much, except maybe by nuclear detonations too close to home and anyone dicking around with my retirement deposits not made exactly on time...(c; I was just visiting as r.b.cruising seems to be slow with everyone going sailing as Yankeeland thaws out and the snowbirds try to migrate North at $6/gallon diesel prices. Even the rich people are leaving the monsters tied to the docks, here. The sailors rejoice as the harbor is much nicer to cruise around on without the big wakes. Even sails go up just outside the entrance to the marinas, now, not after they clear the Battery wall. Thanks for the invite. I don't like "regulated" groups, which is why I stay on usenet where they can flail away at will. That's fine as long as I'm out of arm's reach and they don't tip over my fine English ale..... |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 29, 9:55*am, wrote:
On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote: John H. wrote in : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 29, 10:00*am, wrote:
But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. Then they should trade their boat in for one of these: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That ain't backyard boating.. this is:http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Damn that canoe's sweet.- Hide quoted text - Here's some more of the Warcanoe.. funny, a guy emailed me once. He told me that a real war canoe was supposed to be 25-30 feet long and I should maybe call mine a skirmish canoe;) http://smallboats.com/boats_warcanoe.htm Named after me mum... |
Rocky Marciano
wrote:
That ain't backyard boating.. this is: http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;) Just, I noticed your "Stupid Dog" photos. We have a Chow Mix (probably with a German Shepard", that we adopted as a puppy. The rescue agency "marketed" her as a Keeshond, because as a puppy she looked exactly like a Keeshond puppy. We named her Rocky, after Rocky Marciano, because she had that fat head and fat nose that Marciano had. She also had that strong bull headed determination / attitude that made Marciano (a boxer with little boxing skills) a success. Chows can be very strong willed dogs, who do a great job of pretending to be stupid. That way, they can do only what they want to do, and pretend they don't understand you, it forced me to train her completely differently than my other dogs, but she can be so lovable. We took her up to the lake last week, and she fought to stay out of the water, until she saw there was mud under the water. It was funny watching her lying down in water 10" deep, trying to figure out how to roll around in the mud without getting her face wet. |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 06:55:53 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. Then they should trade their boat in for one of these: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That ain't backyard boating.. this is: http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;) Holy ****! Do the neighbors not get on your case? One time I was living on an Army post, and I had an old MGB GT in the driveway. The engine, transmission radiator, hood, and all the other assorted stuff removed to pull the engine, tranny and clutch was laying all over the yard. About six o'clock that night, I got a call from the Commanding General's aide. He politely informed me that if my yard wasn't cleaned up by 0600 the next morning, the moving trucks would be there to move me off post - at *my* expense! Luckily, I had some friends close by who would help, and by about three in the morning we had the thing all back together. Close call! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 07:10:12 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: On May 29, 10:00*am, wrote: But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. Then they should trade their boat in for one of these: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That ain't backyard boating.. this is:http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Damn that canoe's sweet.- Hide quoted text - Here's some more of the Warcanoe.. funny, a guy emailed me once. He told me that a real war canoe was supposed to be 25-30 feet long and I should maybe call mine a skirmish canoe;) http://smallboats.com/boats_warcanoe.htm Named after me mum... That is just too beautiful for words. It's truly a work of art, Scott. I assume you're holding off on building my boat, "The Herring Skiff?" http://www.smallboats.com/images/skiff2thb.jpg Nice stuff! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
"HK" wrote in message ... John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:14:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On May 28, 8:48 pm, DK wrote: Larry wrote: HK wrote in : What do the oil manufacturers put into that fancy oil to meet the new spec? Nothing they weren't already putting in it. I've been trying to find out what Amsoil puts in.....and where they put it in it. You'd think it'd be in giant tanks in a huge oil facility, not dumped into a 55 gallon drum of oil from the lowest bidder. Such a facility still illudes me. It's nowhere.... How ya been, Harry? He's the same as always and still worth ignoring. Join the club - it makes the group so much nicer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Harry calling a certified mechanic a "wag"......that's rich! Loogy! Check your email. Package on the way, over. I hope you didn't send him part of your brain, since you have so little left. Oh my! |
Confusion over engine oils
Larry wrote:
wrote in news:46f38d0b-e4c0-49ee-a381- : One of the trolls may answer this, you will notice that most of us left here will ignore the response.. we already know what it says anyway;) Nice to see you back Larry, stick around, we could use the input. In case you don't know my new sock puppet, JWAFM (me) is Scotty from SmallBoats. I usually just ignore the trolls, even pointed at me. I'm 62 and retired now and never get excited by much, I was sorta figuring that some young gal's dad did you in with a shotgun.... :) |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 08:59:13 -0400, "John" wrote:
Most all 2 stroke oils still recomend 50:1 but AMSOIL is 100:1? I don'at even play a lawyer on USENET, but that sounds like a good way to murder the warrantee. Casady |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 29, 10:38*am, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 06:55:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote: But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. Then they should trade their boat in for one of these: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That ain't backyard boating.. this is: http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;) Holy ****! Do the neighbors not get on your case? One time I was living on an Army post, and I had an old MGB GT in the driveway. The engine, transmission radiator, hood, and all the other assorted stuff removed to pull the engine, tranny and clutch was laying all over the yard. About six o'clock that night, I got a call from the Commanding General's aide. He politely informed me that if my yard wasn't cleaned up by 0600 the next morning, the moving trucks would be there to move me off post - at *my* expense! Luckily, I had some friends close by who would help, and by about three in the morning we had the thing all back together. Close call! -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One neighbor owned a a marina most of her life, a 26 foot Lyman,and a 30 foot Sparkman and Stevens she used to single hand out on the sound. The other neighbor is a great older lady who was always happy to have freindly neighbors, another I spent a considerable time helping him restore the interior of his old farmhouse.. etc.... One neighbor did complain once but the zoning commish basically giggled as he told me "they want me to shut down a wooden boat builder in Essex CT. what a joke", then he showed me where on my property I could build a garage;) The picture you see was one day when I had a lot of stuff there cleaning out the shop, it was kind of a joke, but I will admit there were days when it did look somewhat like that. I had a lot of real good freinds down there, can't wait to go back someday, I still own the place but my kid loves the school system up here so we won't be back for at least 4 more years. Scotty |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 18:24:47 -0700 (PDT),
wrote: On May 29, 10:38*am, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 06:55:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote: But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. Then they should trade their boat in for one of these: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That ain't backyard boating.. this is: http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;) Holy ****! Do the neighbors not get on your case? One time I was living on an Army post, and I had an old MGB GT in the driveway. The engine, transmission radiator, hood, and all the other assorted stuff removed to pull the engine, tranny and clutch was laying all over the yard. About six o'clock that night, I got a call from the Commanding General's aide. He politely informed me that if my yard wasn't cleaned up by 0600 the next morning, the moving trucks would be there to move me off post - at *my* expense! Luckily, I had some friends close by who would help, and by about three in the morning we had the thing all back together. Close call! -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One neighbor owned a a marina most of her life, a 26 foot Lyman,and a 30 foot Sparkman and Stevens she used to single hand out on the sound. The other neighbor is a great older lady who was always happy to have freindly neighbors, another I spent a considerable time helping him restore the interior of his old farmhouse.. etc.... One neighbor did complain once but the zoning commish basically giggled as he told me "they want me to shut down a wooden boat builder in Essex CT. what a joke", then he showed me where on my property I could build a garage;) The picture you see was one day when I had a lot of stuff there cleaning out the shop, it was kind of a joke, but I will admit there were days when it did look somewhat like that. I had a lot of real good freinds down there, can't wait to go back someday, I still own the place but my kid loves the school system up here so we won't be back for at least 4 more years. Scotty I figured it was a garage cleaning day! -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 29, 9:30*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 18:24:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On May 29, 10:38*am, John H. wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2008 06:55:53 -0700 (PDT), wrote: But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently. Then they should trade their boat in for one of these: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That ain't backyard boating.. this is: http://trip-reports.com/coppermine/d...album=6&pos=21 ;) Holy ****! Do the neighbors not get on your case? One time I was living on an Army post, and I had an old MGB GT in the driveway. The engine, transmission radiator, hood, and all the other assorted stuff removed to pull the engine, tranny and clutch was laying all over the yard. About six o'clock that night, I got a call from the Commanding General's aide. He politely informed me that if my yard wasn't cleaned up by 0600 the next morning, the moving trucks would be there to move me off post - at *my* expense! Luckily, I had some friends close by who would help, and by about three in the morning we had the thing all back together. Close call! -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One neighbor owned a a marina most of her life, a 26 foot Lyman,and a 30 foot Sparkman and Stevens she used to single hand out on the sound. The other neighbor is a great older lady who was always happy to have freindly neighbors, another I spent a considerable time helping him restore the interior of his old farmhouse.. etc.... One neighbor did complain once but the zoning commish basically giggled as he told me "they want me to shut down a wooden boat builder in Essex CT. what a joke", then he showed me where on my property I could build a garage;) The picture you see was one day when I had a lot of stuff there cleaning out the shop, it was kind of a joke, but I will admit there were days when it did look somewhat like that. I had a lot of real good freinds down there, can't wait to go back someday, I still own the place but my kid loves the school system up here so we won't be back for at least 4 more years. Scotty I figured it was a garage cleaning day! -- John *H*- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It was:) |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 7:12 pm, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outsid |
Confusion over engine oils
On May 28, 7:12*pm, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. * I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my engine filled full of wax. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. Then there's hardly any backing out of a bad deal if the engine goes down. It's better to pay a bit up front then have to pay a lot more because one would think they were saving a couple bucks by picking a cheap brand of anything and DIY. because something messed up whether it was in or out of your control, something could go badly wrong then who's liable? Yeah, then it's always somebody else's fault. until the warranty is over I want it to be somebody else's, and I'd go to an extreme to make sure it wasn't mine. |
Confusion over engine oils
I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a
dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. No offense, but that's the line any dealer would try to sell. I'm not accusing you of doing that mind you. If you keep records of what you do, and when you do it, as long as it's along the mfg's recommended procedure, the warranty is in full effect. I had a truck a few years ago, and the transmission started making a wierd sound at about 60,000 miles. I still had 15,000 on the warranty. I brought it to the dealer, and they called later that day saying that the trans fluid looked "burnt," and they had no record of any of the recomended services. Obviously, they were looking for an out. I went down there with my reciepts from Jiffy Lube showing what was serviced and when. I got a new transmission. Just keep your recepts, and in the case of a boat, jot down the engine hours on each receipt. Then, save your money by doing it yourself. --Mike "Tim" wrote in message ... On May 28, 7:12 pm, Larry wrote: John H. wrote : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my engine filled full of wax. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. Then there's hardly any backing out of a bad deal if the engine goes down. It's better to pay a bit up front then have to pay a lot more because one would think they were saving a couple bucks by picking a cheap brand of anything and DIY. because something messed up whether it was in or out of your control, something could go badly wrong then who's liable? Yeah, then it's always somebody else's fault. until the warranty is over I want it to be somebody else's, and I'd go to an extreme to make sure it wasn't mine. |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:
On May 28, 7:12*pm, Larry wrote: John H. wrote : On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed by the oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke, water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into synthetics, surprisingly the Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes: http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp ********************************************** We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. * I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my engine filled full of wax. We just HAVE to make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap. What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the warranty working. Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next 20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the difference. Amsoil.... Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin. "Facilities THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet. The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market demands decades away. The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted with the latest in communications and information processing equipment. The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well- disciplined team of approximately 300 employees." http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES! Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult. Man it's raining HARD outside!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. Then there's hardly any backing out of a bad deal if the engine goes down. It's better to pay a bit up front then have to pay a lot more because one would think they were saving a couple bucks by picking a cheap brand of anything and DIY. because something messed up whether it was in or out of your control, something could go badly wrong then who's liable? Yeah, then it's always somebody else's fault. until the warranty is over I want it to be somebody else's, and I'd go to an extreme to make sure it wasn't mine. The scam at the Toyota dealer's is to 'suggest' that every auto be serviced every 3000 instead of 5000 miles, regardless of usage. And then they have about $25 worth of 'extra dealer items', such as 'friction proofer' and other additives that are routinely added, unless they're told up front not to do it. I'm very careful to tell them I want the 'book' service when I go in. -- John *H* |
Confusion over engine oils
On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote: I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my engine filled full of wax. I have heard of wax in the fuel filters of diesels in cold weather. One local vender sold a 50/50 mix of #1 and #2, which solved the problem. How do you keep wax from melting at engine temperature? Casady |
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