On May 28, 8:43 pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*

You are just one confused guy when it comes to boat maintenance. ;-)

I would suggest that folks here refrain from taking your advice on
that topic in the future.

John H. wrote in
:

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They
can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!


What's he want, about $80/gallon, now? It used to be $30/gallon in 1997
when they tried to force me to use it in my Yamaha Waverunner jetski.

Just for reference, Yamaha 2-stroke oil was made by Chevron, who sells
the same oil with Chevron's label on it for about 35% of what a Yamaha
dealer wanted. I suspect Yamaha's 4-stroke superdooper oil is the same.
Yamaha doesn't have an oil refinery, either, like Amsoil.

A man just can't go wrong putting Rotella-T heavy duty oil in anything.
My Honda EU3000is 3KW 4-stoke gas generator must have 5000 hours on it
powering my work van. Cranks up on the same spark plug that's been in it
for years on the first tick over. It's never had anything but Rotella-T
in it, just like my diesel engines. My 4-stroke, 250cc Honda scooter
runs on Rotella-T, too.

Use what the truckers KNOW makes a truck last for a million
miles.....Rotella-T and Velo 500. Both available at any WalMart without
having to take out a loan....even today.

Question - Does NMMA, who manufacture and sell motors, want an outboard
to last forever on some super oil.....or do they want an outboard to last
until the end of the payment book so you can buy another one?

Don't answer too quick.....Think about it a while....Sleep on it.

Try this one - How many really old outboards do you see that run on
Quaker State SAE 30 motor oil mixed 15:1 on your lake? How many not-so-
old outboards do you see that run on NMMA TC-W3 mixed 50 or 100:1 on that
lake? Take a little poll next time you're out. There's those old blue
Evinrudes, all greasy and such....then there's new outboards back about
5-10 years with 100:1 oil injection. What happened to the thousands of
old oil injected 2-strokers using TC-W3 NMMA fancy oil at 100:1?? Sleep
on that, too.

Just an observation taken over years of cruising around wasting gas....
(c; Remember the Ficht?...(c; NMMA certified that one....???

On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!

Hey, I'm just confused enough to put Yamaha oil in my Yamaha. They can't
say I did something bad then!

In fact, I'll probably let the Yamaha service man put Yamaha oil in my
Yamaha. Then everyone'll be happy!
--
John *H*- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But some people are just too poor to be able to afford an oil that may
end up costing you $5.00 dollars each change, apparently.

Then they should trade their boat in for one of these:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ardBoating.jpg

--
John *H*

On May 29, 9:32*am, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 05:13:52 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On May 28, 8:43*pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2008 00:12:22 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet..

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment..
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

On May 28, 7:12 pm, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote :



On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outsid

On May 28, 7:12*pm, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote :





On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *

I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my
engine filled full of wax.



We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a
dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the
dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. Then
there's hardly any backing out of a bad deal if the engine goes down.
It's better to pay a bit up front then have to pay a lot more because
one would think they were saving a couple bucks by picking a cheap
brand of anything and DIY. because something messed up whether it was
in or out of your control, something could go badly wrong then who's
liable? Yeah, then it's always somebody else's fault. until the
warranty is over I want it to be somebody else's, and I'd go to an
extreme to make sure it wasn't mine.

I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a
dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the
dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over.

No offense, but that's the line any dealer would try to sell. I'm not
accusing you of doing that mind you. If you keep records of what you do, and
when you do it, as long as it's along the mfg's recommended procedure, the
warranty is in full effect.

I had a truck a few years ago, and the transmission started making a wierd
sound at about 60,000 miles. I still had 15,000 on the warranty. I brought
it to the dealer, and they called later that day saying that the trans fluid
looked "burnt," and they had no record of any of the recomended services.
Obviously, they were looking for an out. I went down there with my reciepts
from Jiffy Lube showing what was serviced and when. I got a new
transmission.

Just keep your recepts, and in the case of a boat, jot down the engine hours
on each receipt. Then, save your money by doing it yourself.

--Mike

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On May 28, 7:12 pm, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote
:





On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world.

I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my
engine filled full of wax.



We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. More sales gimmicks. The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! Call 'em. Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a
dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the
dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. Then
there's hardly any backing out of a bad deal if the engine goes down.
It's better to pay a bit up front then have to pay a lot more because
one would think they were saving a couple bucks by picking a cheap
brand of anything and DIY. because something messed up whether it was
in or out of your control, something could go badly wrong then who's
liable? Yeah, then it's always somebody else's fault. until the
warranty is over I want it to be somebody else's, and I'd go to an
extreme to make sure it wasn't mine.

On Thu, 29 May 2008 21:01:06 -0700 (PDT), Tim wrote:

On May 28, 7:12*pm, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote :





On 4-stroke oils, there is a fairly new certification system endorsed
by the
oil blenders and the 4-stroke manufacturers, called "four-stroke,
water-cooled" or FC-W. Because an outboard may run in sal****er, sit
unused for long periods of time, and runs high rpms for hours on end
unlike a car motor, the industry wanted a spec for approved outboard
oils. New owners manuals now state what oil grades to use and say an
FC-W certified oil if you don't use an OEM lubricant. If you are into
synthetics, surprisingly the
Amsoil 4-stroke oil is FC-W approved unlike their 2-stroke oils which
are not TC-W3 approved. Here is more info on the FC-W lubes:

http://nmma.org/certification/programs/oils/fc-w.asp
**********************************************

We can't have you boys just dropping by WalMart and buying Quaker State
to put in your 4-strokers, like the rest of the world. *

I mst not be part of the rest of the world, because I don't want my
engine filled full of wax.



We just HAVE to
make an NMMA-friendly spec of oils only the damned dealers will be
selling for $20/gallon, like the OEM crap.

What nonsense. *More sales gimmicks. *The only reason they don't tell you
you MUST use their OEM oils is the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act
(15USC50 section 2304) which states that if they tell you you MUST use
OEM consumables, then they MUST PROVIDE those consumables at no cost for
the life of the item, no matter what item it is. *That puts a stop to
being forced to buy Mr Goodwrench's oil for your Chevy to keep the
warranty working.

Sure would like to take two brand new Hondas on the back of a boat, put
Rotella T diesel oil in one of them and this overpriced **** in the other
and track everything that goes wrong with both of them for the next
20,000 hours of heavy use on some water taxi. *I bet you'd never tell the
difference.

Amsoil....

Amsoil is a SCAM! *Call 'em. *Ask 'em where the REFINERY or CHEMICAL
PLANT is that AMSOIL OWNS. *Ask for the address of that factory where
they make it. *The only thing Amsoil owns is a BOTTLING PLANT! *You can
see it on Google Earth in Superior, Wisconsin.

"Facilities
THE AMSOIL CORPORATE HEADQUARTERS, MANUFACTURING PLANT, AND MAIN
DISTRIBUTION CENTER are located in Superior, Wisconsin, with several
regional warehouses strategically located throughout North America and
overseas. These facilities cover a total of nearly 700,000 square feet.

The state-of-the-art lubricant production plant contains materials
blending and bulk storage facilities, as well as highspeed bottling lines
and packaging equipment. The main warehouse serves as the hub of a global
distribution network; bottles, cases, drums and totes bearing the AMSOIL
label are shipped worldwide. Capacity is geared to meet projected market
demands decades away.

The AMSOIL administrative functions are centrally located and outfitted
with the latest in communications and information processing equipment.
The entire complex is staffed by a cooperative, knowledgeable and well-
disciplined team of approximately 300 employees."

http://www.amsoil.com/distribution_centers_map.aspx
Here ya go. *The address of every one of their "distribution centers" is
on this map. *Look down on 'em from Google Earth and see if you see any
CHEMICAL FACTORY anywhere. *They're all just WAREHOUSES!

Scam written all over it....."Just believe", it's like a goddamned cult.

Man it's raining HARD outside!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd say the same about using OE filters and oil[s] especially under a
dome of warranty. And while it's under warranty, I'd probably have the
dealer service the engine that is, until the warranty is over. Then
there's hardly any backing out of a bad deal if the engine goes down.
It's better to pay a bit up front then have to pay a lot more because
one would think they were saving a couple bucks by picking a cheap
brand of anything and DIY. because something messed up whether it was
in or out of your control, something could go badly wrong then who's
liable? Yeah, then it's always somebody else's fault. until the
warranty is over I want it to be somebody else's, and I'd go to an
extreme to make sure it wasn't mine.

The scam at the Toyota dealer's is to 'suggest' that every auto be serviced
every 3000 instead of 5000 miles, regardless of usage. And then they have
about $25 worth of 'extra dealer items', such as 'friction proofer' and
other additives that are routinely added, unless they're told up front not
to do it.

I'm very careful to tell them I want the 'book' service when I go in.
--
John *H*

John H. wrote:


The scam at the Toyota dealer's is to 'suggest' that every auto be serviced
every 3000 instead of 5000 miles, regardless of usage. And then they have
about $25 worth of 'extra dealer items', such as 'friction proofer' and
other additives that are routinely added, unless they're told up front not
to do it.

I'm very careful to tell them I want the 'book' service when I go in.

I give up. What the hell is friction proofer?