On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:02:46 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

(Anybody daring to start an independent station will be unable to
purchase refined products at a favorable rate)

Nonsense. Refined products are openly traded on the commodity
exchanges. Go buy some, all it takes is the infrastructure to store
and transport the products.

D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05?pm, "Sam" wrote:

While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.
[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?

Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

I think you're a little off on the price of gas vs. crude. AT $50/bbl crude
gas was in the $2.00 area. The two don't track one for one and I believe a
lot of the differential is conjured up in the trading pits.

Interesting reading:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/bro...05primerM.html

I am trying to find information regarding the cost of crude and the cost
of gasoline for the last 20 years.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:26:01 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:02:46 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

(Anybody daring to start an independent station will be unable to
purchase refined products at a favorable rate)

Nonsense. Refined products are openly traded on the commodity
exchanges. Go buy some, all it takes is the infrastructure to store
and transport the products.

Chuck's statement is partially true.

In Putnam, there are two independant full service stations - gas to
tires to engine repair and everything inbetween. In years past,
they've purchased their gas and diesel from the same distributor that
services Xtra Mart and Cumberland Farms. You paid a couple of cents
more for their gas, but they had smaller tanks and to use a tired
phrase, their gas was "fresher".

Now, they have to buy on the spot market which leads to higher costs
and pricing. They also have to purchase quantities for delivery based
on both of their needs - they are cooperating to meet the minimum
delivery requirements of the distributors.

It's the minimum delivery requirements that kill's them because of the
nature of their business - they don't have a consistent volume to
correctly predict when they will need gas to service their customers.

Another big issue in this that a lot of people miss is JIT (just in
time) inventory controls. The entire energy sector is based on JIT
delivery - which means that larger organizations which can track
volume (even to the hour) can schedule deliveries efficiently which
gives them an advantage over the independant. You would think that
this would be economically advantageous, but it's not favorable to
mediation of pricing because iventory is constantly being turned over
at such a pace that there are no ready reserves. That's the real
issue to me. When you have inventory reserve, that automatically
creates a down pressure on pricing - with no reserve, pricing
increases become almost automatic depending on demand.

Having said that, around here there are several independant operators
who have the system worked - Hi-Lo, Jack's and Hoodie's. Their prices
fluctuate seemingly hour-by-hour, but in general, they are 5 to six
cents cheaper than box stores, sometimes even more. All are run by
Mexican immigrants. :)

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:46:23 -0500, BAR wrote:

D.Duck wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05?pm, "Sam" wrote:

While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.
[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?

Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

I think you're a little off on the price of gas vs. crude. AT $50/bbl crude
gas was in the $2.00 area. The two don't track one for one and I believe a
lot of the differential is conjured up in the trading pits.

Interesting reading:
http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/bro...05primerM.html

I am trying to find information regarding the cost of crude and the cost
of gasoline for the last 20 years.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/I...comparison.htm

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Having said that, around here there are several independant operators
who have the system worked - Hi-Lo, Jack's and Hoodie's. Their prices
fluctuate seemingly hour-by-hour, but in general, they are 5 to six
cents cheaper than box stores, sometimes even more. All are run by
Mexican immigrants. :)




I can see the gas distributors walking up to day laborers on a street
corner and asking them "Hey do you know how to run a gas station" and
them responding "Si Senor".

Mexican immigrants and their can do attitude represents what has
historically made America great

On Feb 28, 6:41Â*am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05�pm, "Sam" wrote:

While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.

[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?

Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

I wouldn't mind the profit aspect of big oil if it weren't for the
billions of dollars that the government gives to big oil in subsidies
and tax breaks.

On Feb 27, 8:05*pm, "Sam" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Gould"

Newsgroups: rec.boats
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: $100.88

On Feb 27, 10:17?am, "Sam" wrote:

5. If you are unhappy with the price of gasoline, you may, at any time,
take
a train, ride a bike, walk, or ride the bus. All of these options will
reduce your energy costs.

I might also wish for a free and competitive market, rather than an
oligarchy.

While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Quite governmenet subsidies and tax breaks for big oil. We as
taxpayers are getting shafted twice because of just that.

On Feb 27, 6:50*pm, "Sam" wrote:
wrote in message

...

Take a look at historical data and you'll see something astonishing.
It seems that talking works! All that happens when we think we are
going after the "enemy" is **** them off. After all, it doesn't make
very good business sense at all. Think about it. What if, say, you
were making widgets and I was the sole manufacturer of the number one
component that those widgets needed to operate. Would you think I'd be
more than likely to work with you, monetarily wise if you were decent
to me, or if you ****ed me off?

You make no sense.

Probably not, to you.

wrote:
On Feb 28, 6:41 am, BAR wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Feb 27, 5:05�pm, "Sam" wrote:
While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -
The same measures that were taken against other vertically integrated
oligarchies in the past. Power, phone, water, etc.
[ Big Snip ]

You want prices controls and regulation.

Why don't we limit profit to 1% on everything. One percent profit should
be enough shouldn't it?

Why do you believe in a free market when it comes to selling boats and
cars but not when it comes to selling oil.

What I want to know is why is gasoline at the pump so cheap compared to
the cost of a bbl of crude? When oil was $50 a bbl we were paying $3 per
gallon of gas and now that oil is $100 a bbl we are still paying $3 per
gallon. Why?

I wouldn't mind the profit aspect of big oil if it weren't for the
billions of dollars that the government gives to big oil in subsidies
and tax breaks.

Tax breaks and subsidies are used by government control behavior. Your
behavior and that of the big oil companies it is all the same.

The fact that big oil gets subsidies and still has a 10% profit is
something to look at. Why isn't the profit more if the government is
subsidizing the big oil companies?

The guy who runs the bakery down the street gets tax breaks to purchase
new equipment every three years. Is this good or bad for the US economy?

wrote:
On Feb 27, 8:05 pm, "Sam" wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Gould"

Newsgroups: rec.boats
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:37 PM
Subject: $100.88

On Feb 27, 10:17?am, "Sam" wrote:

5. If you are unhappy with the price of gasoline, you may, at any time,
take
a train, ride a bike, walk, or ride the bus. All of these options will
reduce your energy costs.
I might also wish for a free and competitive market, rather than an
oligarchy.
While I think it already is a free and competitive market, what changes
would you propose?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Quite governmenet subsidies and tax breaks for big oil. We as
taxpayers are getting shafted twice because of just that.

Your retirement account says hello!