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Brightening economic outlook?
"D.Duck" wrote in message ... "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote in message ... "D.Duck" wrote in message ... "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message . .. D-unit wrote: Small offset printing Gene. We make IR dryers/Powder Spray attachments for the 11x17 market (and a few larger ones) AB Dick, ATF Davidson, Multigraphics, Heidelberg, etc... We have a machine shop and make all our own parts (I think Im going to miss having access to that the most. It came in quite handy back during the Maco refurb days. I could walk in with a mini-project back in those days and 3 guys would fight over who was going to get to work on it.) Don "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:28:13 -0500, D-unit penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |I've worked for the same |company for 23 years (printing/machining ) and |watched our industry dwindle slowly since the early |90's. Doing what? Rotogravure? Blanking? Steel Rule Dies/Embossing? Been there done that.... it sucks.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- I've love to have a nice 11x17 offset press. It's the workhorse of all manner of campaigns! -- George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever! Hell, AB Dick 360's are practically free these days. Supplies aren't however. db My brother was president of AB Dick in the early 90's. Those were the days my friend. AB Dick was manufacturing 28 9800 series presses a day, and our equipment installed on about 1/2 of those. I visited the factory on Touhy Ave. many times back in those days. That building was massive. (never met the prez. though, just the marketing/tech guys) Fun times indeed. They have since been bought out by "Presstech". db Yep, my brother said when British GE, I think that was the name, bought ABD, the hand writing was on the wall. As a point of interest, my brother and I grew up about 5 miles west of ABD and two blocks south of Touhy. I, not he, hunted rabbits in the '50s on the land where ABD now stands. How cool is that? I started my career with AT&T across the street from ABD at what in the 60s was Teletype Corp. We moved out of that building in '89 and moved to Naperville. Then in '92 I transferred down here to Florida and retired in '94. Haven't been back in the winter since! I hope to one day follow in your retirement footsteps in FL. (or at least do the snowbird thing). We love RV-ing. Don |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Jan 3, 5:05�am, John H. wrote:
Chuck, to keep a group of people, primarily undereducated, beholding to the D's will require a *lot* of money for handouts, whatever form they take. Let's not be coy. That's a pretty frightening concept, especially if you are speculating that the D's will be handing out more money than the R's recently have done. Of course it will go to different folks. The D's steal for one group of special interests and the R's steal for another.....but both steal as much as they can as fast as they can. Huge culprit: Enrollment in federal social programs grew 17% between 2000 and 2005- the biggest 5-year increase since the days of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. I guess it's a good thing the R's were in charge for most of that time, who knows where we'd be if the D's were at the helm. Biggest culprits, by the way, are guys like you and in another 9 years guys like me. We are the largest recipients of federal handouts, and regardless of which party is in power the wheels are definitely coming off shortly after 2011, sad to say. Far too many Boomers will be standing at the pension window, no matter which party prevails in 2008. Both parties have squandered the SS Trust Fund over the decades, and *still* we are running these huge deficits and piling on the debt. Fed Entitlements: (some of these are worthy programs, IMO) Medicaid: Handout to 53.4mm people in 2005 cost $198 billion. Social Security: Handout to 48mm people in 2005 cost $519 billion. Medica Handout to 42.3mm people in 2005 cost $294 billion. Child Nutrition: Handout to 32.3mm people in 2005 cost $12 billion Veterans Benefits: Handout to 3.5mm people in 2005 cost $40 billlion You also need to add over $50 billion per year to the Medicare number above to pay for the Prescription Drug program that began in 2006. How did the R's let the D's slip this one through? A $50-billion transfer of public funds to prescription drug companies and a condition that the government is *prohibited* from negotiating for volume pricing? You gotta watch those devious D's, they can raid the treasury even when in the minority, can't they? With the exception of welfare ("temporary assistance for needy families"), the number of people qualifying for benefits intended for low income people soared between 2000 and 2005. The number of people receiving earned income tax credits for impoverished, low wage workers was 21.2 million, up 13.3% between 2000 and 2005. Cost of the program, $35 billion in direct payouts plus another $5 billion in effective tax reduction. This huge increase in the number of people in this category during a time of general prosperity can be somewhat explained by welfare reform enacted in the 1990s. Enrollment in welfare programs was down to only 5mm people, down 18.2% between 2000 and 2005. Many of the former welfare recipients "moved up" to minimum wage service jobs and thereby swelled the ranks of people qualifying for the earned income tax credit. Unemployment compensation cost $33 billion in 2005. 8.1mm Americans received unemployment compensation during that year- a 16.8% increase from the year 2000. (See the effects of welfare reform, paragraph above). Pell grants to low income undergraduate students cost $13 billion in 2005, and 5.1mm Americans benefitted from the program. ******** And that's the problem with trying to balance the budget through spending decreases. We could have saved $21 bb a year by cutting off welfare entirely after 2005, but isn't $21 bb just enough to pay for a few weeks' expenditures in Iraq? Based on the above list, I'm not convinced that "Democrat handouts to undereducated people" represents a significant portion of our social expense. Looks like we need to take away Grannie's arthritis prescription, slash payments to Social Security retirees, turn our backs on our veterans, stop feeding poor kids free lunch at school, kick the poor people out of college, and allow those who can't afford to pay privately for medical care or insurance (due either to age or financial circumstance) to sufffer and die untreated. Seems about the right approach- that would preserve the very same tax cuts that have allowed more Americans to step up to the V8 and leather seats instead of the V6 and cloth upholstery in their new SUV's. Gotta have priorities, right? General point: There are some remedies available that would be far more painful than adjusting income (taxes) to a level sufficient to cover expenses. If you know of a way to restore fiscal sanity to the federal budget without increasing taxes or cutting expenses, (or a combo thereof), I'm all ears. I try to learn something new every day. :-) Statistical cite: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...itle-chart.htm, based on reports form the Office of Management and Budget, the Internal Revenue Service, and Medicare and Social Security annual reports. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:44:04 -0500, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Jan 2, 8:36 pm, "JimH" wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message Sorry, JimH. I have same recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Ov...nnati-Multicha... three formats, SACD, DVD-A and conventional CD.There's no comparison. SACD rules!Eisboch More power to you. My research shows otherwise. Please show this research, I'll bet there are others besides me that would love to see it. Include the data you've compiled, please. JimH provided some links to tests performed on the various formats that suggest SACD as being inferior. If so inclined, one could Google up tests indicating otherwise, but it doesn't matter. Sterile laboratory tests of frequency response, modulation percentages, sampling rates, etc. of small, little snippets of a recording on a computer are interesting, but don't reflect a whole bunch of other immeasurable aspects of the content. Since the early days of "Hi-Fi", recordings have been modified and biased to correct for deficiencies in the media, vinyl, tape and optical disks and standards developed. Then you have to take into account the quality of the home equipment used to play the recordings and the acoustics of the room. Heck, even symphony halls, like Boston's have acoustic panels installed to correct for standing waves that alter the original, live sounds of the orchestra instruments. I am not an audiophile by any means and the equipment I have is not top shelf, "high end" stuff. I'd say it's better than the average home music systems though. Despite the computer snippet analysis of the waveforms in the laboratory tests, SACD sounds best on my systems, followed by DVD-A, and then CD. That opinion is not just mine. I've done my own version of "blind tests" on cooperative subjects that enjoy music and they all, without exception, share my conclusion, picking the SACD recordings over DVD-A and certainly CD. There's no way even the best of the CDs I have (probably a couple of the non-SACD Telarc Samplers) comes close to a well recorded and mixed SACD. It also takes some time to properly setup and adjust a total music system, but it's well worth the effort. For example, with some peaking, tweaking and experimentation, the subwoofer ends up producing nice, clear, tight bass rather than the thumps you often hear in the stores. If using a surround sound system playing Dolby, DTS or THX encoded data, things like the audio delay settings are critical, depending on room size. When I get a new amp I don't even bother unpacking the microphone that usually comes with them for "Automatic" setup adjustments to compensate for room acoustics. Instead, I spend hours playing with the system, making adjustments until it sounds "right". I just wish more variety and selections were available on SACD media. Unfortunately it probably won't happen because of the influence and convenience of mp3's played on iPod docking stations and ear "pods". It's too bad. Eisboch I only care whether the sound I hear for the music I like sounds close at home to the way it sounds in a concert hall. I'm trying to think of an appropriate metaphor.... There's one about a Christmas goose, but it's escaping me at the moment. -- John H |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even make a pretext of being "ONshore!" Um...No? Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe. I may have the two states wrong, but I know they have two large plants here in the US. However, related to this, I'm looking at one of my newest novels fresh from Amazon - printed in Brazil. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Jan 3, 9:06�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even make a pretext of being "ONshore!" Um...No? Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe. I may have the two states wrong, but I know they have two large plants here in the US. However, related to this, I'm looking at one of my newest novels fresh from Amazon - printed in Brazil. Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily newspapers is moving offshore. You send a computer file to East Impoverished Overshirt, where a computerized press reads the data and cranks out a book, brochure, or what-not. All the labor for stacking, packing, shipping, etc costs $1 an hour instead of $12-15. Another significant consideration is that in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US. Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback) there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the increased shipping. Newspapers need to be turned around too rapidly to be printed offshore, although we may see more special weekly sections turned out off the main press. Most magazines don't generate enough per unit revenue at the point of sale to justify the higher shipping costs associated with overseas printing, and once again there is normally a very short window between the final assembly of the editorial and advertising elements and the day the publication needs to be distributed. If it takes an extra two weeks to get some crime novel to market, no real harm done. |
Brightening economic outlook?
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:06�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even make a pretext of being "ONshore!" Um...No? Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe. I may have the two states wrong, but I know they have two large plants here in the US. However, related to this, I'm looking at one of my newest novels fresh from Amazon - printed in Brazil. Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily newspapers is moving offshore. You send a computer file to East Impoverished Overshirt, where a computerized press reads the data and cranks out a book, brochure, or what-not. All the labor for stacking, packing, shipping, etc costs $1 an hour instead of $12-15. Another significant consideration is that in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US. Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback) there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the increased shipping. I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100 cover price. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:06:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: | |Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global |presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even |make a pretext of being "ONshore!" | |Um...No? | |Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe. It appears that they consider themselves a Canadian company... foreign, anyway, not US. That makes them a ridiculous choice to support the troll's statements. I suspect that they have money collection centers in nearly (if not) every state.... that ca$h then gets wired (along with other printing orders, via optical network) to Canada, France, Spain, or Argentina.... It sorta looks like they are crashing and burning, anyway. In '03 their stock was worth Can$37.75 and is now trading at around Can$1.49. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Jan 3, 11:46*am, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:44:04 -0500, HK wrote: Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... On Jan 2, 8:36 pm, "JimH" wrote: "Eisboch" wrote in message Sorry, JimH. I have same recording of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture http://www.amazon.com/Tchaikovsky-Ov...nnati-Multicha.... three formats, SACD, DVD-A and conventional CD.There's no comparison.. SACD rules!Eisboch More power to you. My research shows otherwise. Please show this research, I'll bet there are others besides me that would love to see it. Include the data you've compiled, please. JimH provided some links to tests performed on the various formats that suggest SACD as being inferior. If so inclined, one could Google up tests indicating otherwise, but it doesn't matter. * Sterile laboratory tests of frequency response, modulation percentages, sampling rates, etc. *of small, little snippets of a recording on a computer are interesting, but don't reflect a whole bunch of other immeasurable aspects of the content. Since the early days of "Hi-Fi", recordings have been modified and biased to correct for deficiencies in the media, vinyl, tape and optical disks and standards developed. * *Then you have to take into account the quality of the home equipment used to play the recordings and the acoustics of the room. * *Heck, even symphony halls, like Boston's have acoustic panels installed to correct for standing waves that alter the original, live sounds of the orchestra instruments. I am not an audiophile by any means and the equipment I have is not top shelf, "high end" stuff. *I'd say it's better than the average home music systems though. *Despite the computer snippet analysis of the waveforms in the laboratory tests, *SACD sounds best on my systems, followed by DVD-A, and then CD. *That opinion is not just mine. *I've done my own version of "blind tests" on cooperative subjects that enjoy music and they all, without exception, share my conclusion, picking the SACD recordings over DVD-A and certainly CD. * There's no way even the best of the CDs I have (probably a couple of the non-SACD Telarc Samplers) *comes close to a well recorded and mixed SACD. It also takes some time to properly setup and adjust a total music system, but it's well worth the effort. *For example, with some peaking, tweaking and experimentation, the subwoofer ends up producing nice, clear, tight bass rather than the thumps you often hear in the stores. *If using a surround sound system playing Dolby, DTS or THX encoded data, things like the audio delay settings are critical, depending on room size. * When I get a new amp I don't even bother unpacking the microphone that usually comes with them for "Automatic" setup adjustments to compensate for room acoustics. Instead, I spend hours playing with the system, making adjustments until it sounds "right". I just wish more variety and selections were available on SACD media. Unfortunately it probably won't happen because of the influence and convenience of mp3's played on iPod docking stations and ear "pods". *It's too bad. Eisboch I only care whether the sound I hear for the music I like sounds close at home to the way it sounds in a concert hall. I'm trying to think of an appropriate metaphor.... There's one about a Christmas goose, but it's escaping me at the moment. -- John H- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hmm, I think it's full of something or other......... |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | Another significant consideration is that | in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply | available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in | the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk | of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become | sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many | "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US. Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors. | Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for | items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback) | there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the | increased shipping. | |I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone |care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the |product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product |from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100 |cover price. Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1 cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or loss of $50,000! It adds up fast. Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing field? -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:06:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: | |Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global |presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even |make a pretext of being "ONshore!" | |Um...No? | |Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe. It appears that they consider themselves a Canadian company... foreign, anyway, not US. That makes them a ridiculous choice to support the troll's statements. I suspect that they have money collection centers in nearly (if not) every state.... that ca$h then gets wired (along with other printing orders, via optical network) to Canada, France, Spain, or Argentina.... It sorta looks like they are crashing and burning, anyway. In '03 their stock was worth Can$37.75 and is now trading at around Can$1.49. Gene, I really don't know what percent of their business is printed locally and what percent is overseas, but why was his comment a troll? Is it possible he was just uniformed? |
Brightening economic outlook?
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | Another significant consideration is that | in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply | available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in | the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk | of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become | sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many | "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US. Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors. | Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for | items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback) | there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the | increased shipping. | |I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone |care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the |product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product |from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100 |cover price. Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1 cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or loss of $50,000! It adds up fast. If you can print and ship an average book for $1.00 less then doing it in the US, it doesn't matter what the cover price is. If the book has a cover price of $100 but they are only selling 1,000 of them, they will save themselves a $1,000. If you sell a book for $10, but sell 1,000,000 you have increased your profit by a million dollars. The cover price should not impact in your cost analysis. Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing field? |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:09:03 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |why was his comment a troll? | You know, that is really a pretty good question! I don't usually jump to the conclusion that a person is a troll, but there are signs. Generally, Beyond the obvious, this sucks, they suck, that sucks..... the troll usually finds some opportunity to say "you suck," especially if they have never posted to that person before. Thus, a person's behavior is characteristic of trolling if they have never posted in the newsgroup before and pop in from nowhere with an inflammatory post (usually some sort of unsupported or un cited declaration that a poster doesn't don't know what they are talking about). Specifically, This poster (NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.160.177.0) must live close to a huge printing concern that has had a profound affect on that fairly rural setting. He knew, or should have known, that his post was not accurate. I have worked with people that left that plant, because of economic conditions, and have worked as a tech. rep. alongside workers IN that plant. A google of posts by WaIIy yields nothing that relates to any subject discussed, either on topic or otherwise. He posts as a neophyte, but apparently knows enough to fiddle with his newsreader at the source level using a binary or hexadecimal editor. Bogus and Pointless Headers: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.52/64.614 Beta-03 (American) What is the point of this? (I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. I have already submitted this poster's hack to Forte as a violation of Forte's TOS.) |Is it possible he was just uniformed? I guess all things are *possible*.... in this case, I think... highly unlikely. It is a good question and there is a lot more to be written on the point, but I don't have the time to do it, now..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
"D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote in message ... "D.Duck" wrote in message ... "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote in message ... "D.Duck" wrote in message ... "D-unit" cof42_AT_embarqmail.com wrote in message ... "HK" wrote in message . .. D-unit wrote: Small offset printing Gene. We make IR dryers/Powder Spray attachments for the 11x17 market (and a few larger ones) AB Dick, ATF Davidson, Multigraphics, Heidelberg, etc... We have a machine shop and make all our own parts (I think Im going to miss having access to that the most. It came in quite handy back during the Maco refurb days. I could walk in with a mini-project back in those days and 3 guys would fight over who was going to get to work on it.) Don "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:28:13 -0500, D-unit penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |I've worked for the same |company for 23 years (printing/machining ) and |watched our industry dwindle slowly since the early |90's. Doing what? Rotogravure? Blanking? Steel Rule Dies/Embossing? Been there done that.... it sucks.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- I've love to have a nice 11x17 offset press. It's the workhorse of all manner of campaigns! -- George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever! Hell, AB Dick 360's are practically free these days. Supplies aren't however. db My brother was president of AB Dick in the early 90's. Those were the days my friend. AB Dick was manufacturing 28 9800 series presses a day, and our equipment installed on about 1/2 of those. I visited the factory on Touhy Ave. many times back in those days. That building was massive. (never met the prez. though, just the marketing/tech guys) Fun times indeed. They have since been bought out by "Presstech". db Yep, my brother said when British GE, I think that was the name, bought ABD, the hand writing was on the wall. As a point of interest, my brother and I grew up about 5 miles west of ABD and two blocks south of Touhy. I, not he, hunted rabbits in the '50s on the land where ABD now stands. How cool is that? I started my career with AT&T across the street from ABD at what in the 60s was Teletype Corp. We moved out of that building in '89 and moved to Naperville. Then in '92 I transferred down here to Florida and retired in '94. Haven't been back in the winter since! I hope to one day follow in your retirement footsteps in FL. (or at least do the snowbird thing). We love RV-ing. Don Better rethink your choice of retirement spots. Florida is pretty full, why not try Arizona? ;) |
Brightening economic outlook?
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message Not true, here. Still VERY much a buyer's market.... and there seems to be damn few of those. Not just small fry, either! We have a constellation of properties, an 80M bankruptcy that isn't finding any takers (offers, but not enough backing from lenders to make it happen). Would you like to own a pier? Ummm, you mean Yaupon? By the way, what happened to all those big condo's that were supposed to be built at the old LBP site? The last time I checked, its still a pile of sand filled with "For Sale" signs. The loss of the Long Beach Pier still ****es me off. db |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? Figures. :) PS: I'd love to give your BETA team some ideas on how to down size this monster and make it more usable. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:16:44 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |Gene Kearns wrote: | On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned | the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | | | | Another significant consideration is that | | in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply | | available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in | | the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk | | of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become | | sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many | | "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US. | | Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the | MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors. | | | Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for | | items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback) | | there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the | | increased shipping. | | | |I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone | |care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the | |product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product | |from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100 | |cover price. | | Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1 | cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The | difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or | loss of $50,000! It adds up fast. | |If you can print and ship an average book for $1.00 less then doing it |in the US, it doesn't matter what the cover price is. If the book has a |cover price of $100 but they are only selling 1,000 of them, they will |save themselves a $1,000. If you sell a book for $10, but sell |1,000,000 you have increased your profit by a million dollars. The |cover price should not impact in your cost analysis. | | Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made | anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I | could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing | field? | Hmmm... on second read, I think we are talking apples and oranges. You are saying "cover price" and I am thinking "price of the cover"..... If the OP was talking about the cost of the cover, my point makes sense. Covers are often embossed, foil stamped, and any other of a number of proce$$$$$es. I can easily imagine the cost of producing the cover to approach, if not exceed, the cost of printing the *rest* of the book. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:16:44 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |Gene Kearns wrote: | On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned | the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | | | | Another significant consideration is that | | in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply | | available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in | | the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk | | of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become | | sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many | | "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US. | | Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the | MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors. | | | Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for | | items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback) | | there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the | | increased shipping. | | | |I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone | |care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the | |product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product | |from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100 | |cover price. | | Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1 | cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The | difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or | loss of $50,000! It adds up fast. | |If you can print and ship an average book for $1.00 less then doing it |in the US, it doesn't matter what the cover price is. If the book has a |cover price of $100 but they are only selling 1,000 of them, they will |save themselves a $1,000. If you sell a book for $10, but sell |1,000,000 you have increased your profit by a million dollars. The |cover price should not impact in your cost analysis. | | Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made | anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I | could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing | field? | Hmmm... on second read, I think we are talking apples and oranges. You are saying "cover price" and I am thinking "price of the cover"..... If the OP was talking about the cost of the cover, my point makes sense. Covers are often embossed, foil stamped, and any other of a number of proce$$$$$es. I can easily imagine the cost of producing the cover to approach, if not exceed, the cost of printing the *rest* of the book. And Chuck might have been talking about the same thing you are. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 15:44:56 -0500, D-unit penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | |"Gene Kearns" wrote in message | | | Not true, here. Still VERY much a buyer's market.... and there seems | to be damn few of those. Not just small fry, either! We have a | constellation of properties, an 80M bankruptcy that isn't finding any | takers (offers, but not enough backing from lenders to make it | happen). These are the properties: http://www.starnewsonline.com/articl...709290397/1004 first they're sold, then they're not, then they're sold, then they're not, then they're sold, then they're not....... |Would you like to own a pier? | | |Ummm, | |you mean Yaupon? Yes! The Town of Oak Island, based on the mayor's wishes, placed a bid on the pier... which was accepted. The idiotic town council voted NOT to proceed with the purchase. Bonner Stiller is attempting to save the day. I hope he succeeds. http://www.starnewsonline.com/articl...30/1004/news01 |By the way, what happened to all those big condo's |that were supposed to be built at the old LBP site? |The last time I checked, its still a pile of sand |filled with "For Sale" signs. | |The loss of the Long Beach Pier still ****es me off. It does me, too. I hope it remains, for the remainder of the lives of the current owners, an empty sand lot littered with for sale signs. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:11:33 -0500, WaIIy penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: | |On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 04:48:57 -0500, WaIIy penned |the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | | ||That's total baloney. || ||You obviously know nothing about the printing industry. || ||Look at "little" companies like RR Donnelley and Quebecor, to ||name just two. || ||Consolidation has been happening in the printing business for years. | |First, I'd like to observe your post as a lame-ass troll.... but, I'll |calmly respond. That seems important to some.... | |Your response is emotional, not fact-based and hardly calm. | | |RR Donnelley.... what can I say? This is straight from their web site: |"We provide integrated onsite-offshore Business Process Outsourcing |services to Fortune 500 companies and to professional services firms |through our operations in North America, Europe, India, Sri Lanka and |the Philippines. Our judgment-based outsourcing solutions address a |variety of needs for vertical segments that include financial |services, publishing, manufacturing, transportation, |telecommunications, healthcare, advertising, investment banking and |more." |http://www.rrdonnelley.com/wwwRRD1/S...fficeTiger.asp | |A rose by any other name???? What does "offshore" mean to you? | |Hmmmmm, the one book plant in Ohio does over 500 million dollars a year |on it's own. | |One plant that's 1.3 MILLION square feet and 1800 employees. |Actually, they are so big, they have their own zip code - 44888 | |RRD has a lot more in the USA, look it up. | | |Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global |presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even |make a pretext of being "ONshore!" | |Your research is flawed. There is a giant magazine plant in Midland |Michigan and that's just off the top of my head. |Quebecor has a strong US presence. | | |Your posting address shows West Monroe, LA. I used to call frequently |on a printing outfit there - Manville. If you are anywhere near there, |you must know the story of Manville = Riverwood = Riverwood Holding |(which is now "...a global packaging company..." ). | |I live in Cleveland, not Cleveland LA. | | |As I calmly noted, a lame-ass troll devoid of any truth.... but you |knew that. | |I can trade potshots, but I won't. | |You have no idea of what you're talking about. Troll...... plonk. -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:11:33 -0500, WaIIy penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: | |On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 04:48:57 -0500, WaIIy penned |the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: | | ||That's total baloney. || ||You obviously know nothing about the printing industry. || ||Look at "little" companies like RR Donnelley and Quebecor, to ||name just two. || ||Consolidation has been happening in the printing business for years. | |First, I'd like to observe your post as a lame-ass troll.... but, I'll |calmly respond. That seems important to some.... | |Your response is emotional, not fact-based and hardly calm. | | |RR Donnelley.... what can I say? This is straight from their web site: |"We provide integrated onsite-offshore Business Process Outsourcing |services to Fortune 500 companies and to professional services firms |through our operations in North America, Europe, India, Sri Lanka and |the Philippines. Our judgment-based outsourcing solutions address a |variety of needs for vertical segments that include financial |services, publishing, manufacturing, transportation, |telecommunications, healthcare, advertising, investment banking and |more." |http://www.rrdonnelley.com/wwwRRD1/S...fficeTiger.asp | |A rose by any other name???? What does "offshore" mean to you? | |Hmmmmm, the one book plant in Ohio does over 500 million dollars a year |on it's own. | |One plant that's 1.3 MILLION square feet and 1800 employees. |Actually, they are so big, they have their own zip code - 44888 | |RRD has a lot more in the USA, look it up. | | |Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global |presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even |make a pretext of being "ONshore!" | |Your research is flawed. There is a giant magazine plant in Midland |Michigan and that's just off the top of my head. |Quebecor has a strong US presence. | | |Your posting address shows West Monroe, LA. I used to call frequently |on a printing outfit there - Manville. If you are anywhere near there, |you must know the story of Manville = Riverwood = Riverwood Holding |(which is now "...a global packaging company..." ). | |I live in Cleveland, not Cleveland LA. | | |As I calmly noted, a lame-ass troll devoid of any truth.... but you |knew that. | |I can trade potshots, but I won't. | |You have no idea of what you're talking about. Troll...... plonk. Is this Wally the dumbest guy to ever post here you've plonked, or some other Wally? |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Jan 3, 12:14�pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily newspapers is moving offshore. Untrue by a longshot. Try going to one of the Chicago print shows. It's not all offshore yet. But, The number of items we see printed in Mexico, China, (and in Shortwave's example Brazil) is increasing very rapidly. I know of specific cases where publishers who previously printed in the US have started using Chinese presses within the last year or so. |
Brightening economic outlook?
WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:06:32 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: On Jan 3, 12:14?pm, WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould wrote: Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily newspapers is moving offshore. Untrue by a longshot. Try going to one of the Chicago print shows. It's not all offshore yet. But, The number of items we see printed in Mexico, China, (and in Shortwave's example Brazil) is increasing very rapidly. I know of specific cases where publishers who previously printed in the US have started using Chinese presses within the last year or so. There's no doubt more is going overseas, which is a bad trend. I could pop Nixon over the head for opening up China to our markets as he did. I could also pop every president, senator and congressman who has allowed the many and prolific trade practices which account for our unreal trade deficit. It is just the evolution of manufacturing. But, you have to ask your self how the Japanese took over the automobile manufacturing business world wide with the only native resource being the labor. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. PS: I'd love to give your BETA team some ideas on how to down size this monster and make it more usable. You are preaching to the choir. I can't say a lot of things I'd love to say.... I signed a non-disclosure agreement. I'd better zip-it..... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- |
Brightening economic outlook?
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. PS: I'd love to give your BETA team some ideas on how to down size this monster and make it more usable. You are preaching to the choir. I can't say a lot of things I'd love to say.... I signed a non-disclosure agreement. I'd better zip-it..... I have to say, Gene, that I admire your patience and tenacity in sticking with a software program that was a decade behind the times a decade ago and still is. I try the latest iteration of Forte about once every two years, and always seem to have the same response to it..."my god, they actually charge for this p.o.s.?" Meanwhile, I have an issue with a Russian software program I've been using for more than a year. The latest iteration causes Windows (XP or VISTA) to suddenly freeze with many programs that use copy and paste, such as the program I use to record a file name on a download website and then paste it into a download manager. Arrrgh. The user group knows of the problem and the Russkis have been "working on a solution." For a month. So in the meantime I have had to remove the offending program. |
Brightening economic outlook?
HK wrote:
Gene Kearns wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. PS: I'd love to give your BETA team some ideas on how to down size this monster and make it more usable. You are preaching to the choir. I can't say a lot of things I'd love to say.... I signed a non-disclosure agreement. I'd better zip-it..... I have to say, Gene, that I admire your patience and tenacity in sticking with a software program that was a decade behind the times a decade ago and still is. I try the latest iteration of Forte about once every two years, and always seem to have the same response to it..."my god, they actually charge for this p.o.s.?" Meanwhile, I have an issue with a Russian software program I've been using for more than a year. The latest iteration causes Windows (XP or VISTA) to suddenly freeze with many programs that use copy and paste, such as the program I use to record a file name on a download website and then paste it into a download manager. Arrrgh. The user group knows of the problem and the Russkis have been "working on a solution." For a month. So in the meantime I have had to remove the offending program. Harry, If I can help you solve your Window problem let me know. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:59:21 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:44:12 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:59:21 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Vic, I'm using 1.91, and have been doing so for a bunch of years. Most of the complaining I've heard has been with the new versions. I *did* download and install a new version a year or so ago, and didn't like it at all. Thank God, I'd kept the old download file so I could reinstall the old one which works great. -- John H |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:20:00 -0500, John H.
wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:44:12 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Vic, I'm using 1.91, and have been doing so for a bunch of years. Most of the complaining I've heard has been with the new versions. I *did* download and install a new version a year or so ago, and didn't like it at all. Thank God, I'd kept the old download file so I could reinstall the old one which works great. Guess I'm not missing anything then. When I upgraded to 1.9x there was added YENC functionality, but I didn't see anything in future upgrades that tickled my fancy. --Vic |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 11:30:12 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 08:20:00 -0500, John H. wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:44:12 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Vic, I'm using 1.91, and have been doing so for a bunch of years. Most of the complaining I've heard has been with the new versions. I *did* download and install a new version a year or so ago, and didn't like it at all. Thank God, I'd kept the old download file so I could reinstall the old one which works great. Guess I'm not missing anything then. When I upgraded to 1.9x there was added YENC functionality, but I didn't see anything in future upgrades that tickled my fancy. --Vic exactly -- John H |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Jan 2, 8:45*pm, wrote:
On Jan 2, 7:21*pm, BAR wrote: D-unit wrote: "HK" wrote in messagenews:Dvydnfmi0MgXUubanZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@comca st.com... D-unit wrote: Small offset printing Gene. We make IR dryers/Powder Spray attachments for the 11x17 market (and a few larger ones) AB Dick, ATF Davidson, Multigraphics, Heidelberg, etc... We have a machine shop and make all our own parts (I think Im going to miss having access to that the most. *It came in quite handy back during the Maco refurb days. I could walk in with a mini-project back in those days and 3 guys would fight over who was going to get to work on it.) Don "Gene Kearns" wrote in messagenews:lginn39h5lp82o6rqkpjacrmpj1afh0l2u@4ax .com... On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:28:13 -0500, D-unit penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |I've worked for the same |company for 23 years (printing/machining ) and |watched our industry dwindle slowly since the early |90's. Doing what? Rotogravure? Blanking? Steel Rule Dies/Embossing? Been there done that.... it sucks.... -- Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC. Homepage http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/ Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats ----------------- http://www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com-*C...tention*Speed* Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road ----------------- I've love to have a nice 11x17 offset press. It's the workhorse of all manner of campaigns! -- George W. Bush - the 43rd Best President Ever! Hell, AB Dick 360's are practically free these days. Supplies aren't however. HP practically gives away printers. But, charges an arm and a leg for a toner or ink cartridge.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - We did the math one day on ink and it came to over $5,000 per gallon. It is a raquet. pretty expensive coal dust |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:26:45 -0500, "Gene Kearns"
wrote: On 1/4/2008 9:44:12 PM, Vic Smith wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:59:21 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Apparently, there will be no further 4.x versions. With Version 5.x "Forté will offer an array of news + email software and services." Let me know, if you have a clue what that means..... http://www.forteinc.com/agent/roadmap.php http://www.forteinc.com/news/bulletin.php?id=agent50 Here are the release notes from the Forte web site: 30-Jan-07 Agent 4.2 NZB, database performance and smart abbreviation... 14-Oct-06 Agent 4.1 Performance enhancements and bug fixes to Agent 4.0... 18-Aug-06 Agent 4.0 Ignore subthread, image preview, junk detection, route by identity, improved Usenet task scheduling, and more... 09-Mar-06 Agent 3.3 Database recovery tool, improvements to secure communications (SSL), and fixes to issues raised by Agent users... 31-Jan-06 Agent 3.2 Multiple POP accounts, multiple SMTP serviers, multiple personas, and SSL... 15-Sep-05 Agent 3.1Performance enhancements, better header joining, and bug fixes to Agent 3.0... 03-Aug-05 Agent 3.0 Support for multiple news servers, multiple connections to news servers, task management, and more... 06-Feb-04 Agent 2.0 Major upgrade to Agent's underlying architecture and user interface... http://www.forteinc.com/release/index.php Thanks, Gene. Since 1.93 fills all my needs, I guess it was foregoing 2.0 that kept me satisfied with Agent. --Vic |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:10:12 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:26:45 -0500, "Gene Kearns" wrote: On 1/4/2008 9:44:12 PM, Vic Smith wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:59:21 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Apparently, there will be no further 4.x versions. With Version 5.x "Forté will offer an array of news + email software and services." Let me know, if you have a clue what that means..... http://www.forteinc.com/agent/roadmap.php http://www.forteinc.com/news/bulletin.php?id=agent50 Here are the release notes from the Forte web site: 30-Jan-07 Agent 4.2 NZB, database performance and smart abbreviation... 14-Oct-06 Agent 4.1 Performance enhancements and bug fixes to Agent 4.0... 18-Aug-06 Agent 4.0 Ignore subthread, image preview, junk detection, route by identity, improved Usenet task scheduling, and more... 09-Mar-06 Agent 3.3 Database recovery tool, improvements to secure communications (SSL), and fixes to issues raised by Agent users... 31-Jan-06 Agent 3.2 Multiple POP accounts, multiple SMTP serviers, multiple personas, and SSL... 15-Sep-05 Agent 3.1Performance enhancements, better header joining, and bug fixes to Agent 3.0... 03-Aug-05 Agent 3.0 Support for multiple news servers, multiple connections to news servers, task management, and more... 06-Feb-04 Agent 2.0 Major upgrade to Agent's underlying architecture and user interface... http://www.forteinc.com/release/index.php Thanks, Gene. Since 1.93 fills all my needs, I guess it was foregoing 2.0 that kept me satisfied with Agent. --Vic I guess the 'support for multiple news servers' was a big breakthrough. I just load an additional copy of 1.91. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Sun, 06 Jan 2008 08:34:24 -0500, John H.
wrote: On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:10:12 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:26:45 -0500, "Gene Kearns" wrote: 03-Aug-05 Agent 3.0 Support for multiple news servers, multiple connections to news servers, task management, and more... 06-Feb-04 Agent 2.0 Major upgrade to Agent's underlying architecture and user interface... http://www.forteinc.com/release/index.php Thanks, Gene. Since 1.93 fills all my needs, I guess it was foregoing 2.0 that kept me satisfied with Agent. --Vic I guess the 'support for multiple news servers' was a big breakthrough. I just load an additional copy of 1.91. I've never had more than one ISP's news server except shortly during a transition between ISPs, but if I needed that I would probably get the newer Agent. Ameritech had an "east"' and a "west" which I would change once in a while if one was dead. Seems every time I used more than one copy of Agent my logs and DBs got out of sync, confusing me. But whatever works. --Vic |
Brightening economic outlook?
"John H." wrote in message ... On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:10:12 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:26:45 -0500, "Gene Kearns" wrote: On 1/4/2008 9:44:12 PM, Vic Smith wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:59:21 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Apparently, there will be no further 4.x versions. With Version 5.x "Forté will offer an array of news + email software and services." Let me know, if you have a clue what that means..... http://www.forteinc.com/agent/roadmap.php http://www.forteinc.com/news/bulletin.php?id=agent50 Here are the release notes from the Forte web site: 30-Jan-07 Agent 4.2 NZB, database performance and smart abbreviation... 14-Oct-06 Agent 4.1 Performance enhancements and bug fixes to Agent 4.0... 18-Aug-06 Agent 4.0 Ignore subthread, image preview, junk detection, route by identity, improved Usenet task scheduling, and more... 09-Mar-06 Agent 3.3 Database recovery tool, improvements to secure communications (SSL), and fixes to issues raised by Agent users... 31-Jan-06 Agent 3.2 Multiple POP accounts, multiple SMTP serviers, multiple personas, and SSL... 15-Sep-05 Agent 3.1Performance enhancements, better header joining, and bug fixes to Agent 3.0... 03-Aug-05 Agent 3.0 Support for multiple news servers, multiple connections to news servers, task management, and more... 06-Feb-04 Agent 2.0 Major upgrade to Agent's underlying architecture and user interface... http://www.forteinc.com/release/index.php Thanks, Gene. Since 1.93 fills all my needs, I guess it was foregoing 2.0 that kept me satisfied with Agent. --Vic I guess the 'support for multiple news servers' was a big breakthrough. I just load an additional copy of 1.91. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." Heck, Outlook Express can handle multiple news servers. |
Brightening economic outlook?
On Sun, 6 Jan 2008 14:15:57 -0500, "D.Duck" wrote:
"John H." wrote in message .. . On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:10:12 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 14:26:45 -0500, "Gene Kearns" wrote: On 1/4/2008 9:44:12 PM, Vic Smith wrote: On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:59:21 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:12:29 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:55:17 -0500, Gene Kearns wrote: I know this to be a faked version, since I am on the Forte Agent beta team. So this over priced junk program I'm using is YOUR fault? I'd pay more, if I got features I would *use*. Figures. :) No.... I refuse to take credit. In fact, I've become so disenchanted with the direction Forte is taking with Agent (whatever that is) that I am looking at alternatives. Out of curiosity, what's the diff between the newer versions and the 1.93 I'm using? I stopped at 1.93 because an upgrade would have cost, and I've been happy with it anyway. I'm thinking I'm missing something about newsreaders, having stuck with Agent for more than a decade. --Vic Apparently, there will be no further 4.x versions. With Version 5.x "Forté will offer an array of news + email software and services." Let me know, if you have a clue what that means..... http://www.forteinc.com/agent/roadmap.php http://www.forteinc.com/news/bulletin.php?id=agent50 Here are the release notes from the Forte web site: 30-Jan-07 Agent 4.2 NZB, database performance and smart abbreviation... 14-Oct-06 Agent 4.1 Performance enhancements and bug fixes to Agent 4.0... 18-Aug-06 Agent 4.0 Ignore subthread, image preview, junk detection, route by identity, improved Usenet task scheduling, and more... 09-Mar-06 Agent 3.3 Database recovery tool, improvements to secure communications (SSL), and fixes to issues raised by Agent users... 31-Jan-06 Agent 3.2 Multiple POP accounts, multiple SMTP serviers, multiple personas, and SSL... 15-Sep-05 Agent 3.1Performance enhancements, better header joining, and bug fixes to Agent 3.0... 03-Aug-05 Agent 3.0 Support for multiple news servers, multiple connections to news servers, task management, and more... 06-Feb-04 Agent 2.0 Major upgrade to Agent's underlying architecture and user interface... http://www.forteinc.com/release/index.php Thanks, Gene. Since 1.93 fills all my needs, I guess it was foregoing 2.0 that kept me satisfied with Agent. --Vic I guess the 'support for multiple news servers' was a big breakthrough. I just load an additional copy of 1.91. -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." Heck, Outlook Express can handle multiple news servers. Super! -- John H "All decisions are the result of binary thinking." |
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