On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

On Dec 20, 3:39�pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

The two are more entwined than you might imagine.

Masons often claim to be the philosophical descendants of the Knights
Templar. During the Crusades, the Templars literally guarded the
Temple in Jerusalem, and were additionally responsible for the safety
of pilgrims and, believe it or not, banking. People who wanted to
travel from Europe to Jerusalem on pilgrimage were often reluctant to
carry large sums of money on their person en route. There were too
many opportunities to be waylaid by bandits, etc. So if the Herring
family wanted to travel from Paris to Jerusalem, for example, you
could go to the local office of the Templars and desposit, let's say,
a chest of 2000 gold coins. You would be given a receipt and you would
carry that with you to the Holy Land. Upon arrival in Jerusalem, you
would turn the receipt into the Templars and receive 2000 gold from
the Templars depository there, less of course a "carrying charge" of
perhaps 20 percent. Between the interest charged for banking services
and the number of people who simply died or were murdered along the
road to Jerusalem and never showed up to collect anything, the
Templars eventually got so rich that they were loaning money to
European kings.

Anyway, while hanging around Jerusalem and guarding the temple the
Knights Templar became aware of an entire school of Christianity that
had been fairly well stamped out in Europe. Gnosticism. Gnosticism was
one of two predominate forms of Christianity in the first couple of
centuries AD. Sometime around the year 300 or so, the 20-30 Christian
"gospels" were examined by a committee and four were deemed worthy to
be included in an official collection of religious documents that
would thereafter be called The Bible. None of the gnostic texts were
included, and before long gnostic groups were being
persecuted as "heretics" by the othodox church. Several attempts were
made to locate and burn every copy of the gnostic gospels, but there
were successful attempts made to hide some of them away. (see "The
Dead Sea Scrolls" as one example). Some of the gnostic texts were
found in Jerusalem during the Crusades.

Many of the Knights Templar adopted gnostic Christianity, and some of
the Masonic traditions were supposedly inspired by gnostic literature.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Dec 20, 3:39?pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

The two are more entwined than you might imagine.

Masons often claim to be the philosophical descendants of the Knights
Templar.

The only connection between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry is
with the Order of DeMolay which is a youth organization named after
Jacques DeMolay. It is a mentoring organization that the development
of civic awareness, leadership skills and personal responsibility.

There is a charitable organization outside the structure of
Freemasonry that is named The United Religious, Military and Masonic
Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes
and Malta which is sometimes called the Masonic Knights Templar, but
has no direct connection to Freemasonry other than the fact that the
members are all Master Masons.

There are only three degrees - Entered Apprentice. Fellow Craft and
Master Mason. Other "degrees" are declared, or to put it another way,
awarded depending on the Master Mason's involvement in the charitable
organization like the various Shrines or the Masonic Knights.

None of the Free Mason rituals are based on the rituals or theology of
the Knights Templar.

On Dec 20, 7:09�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Dec 20, 3:39?pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

The two are more entwined than you might imagine.

Masons often claim to be the philosophical descendants of the Knights
Templar.

The only connection between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry is
with the Order of DeMolay which is a youth organization named after
Jacques DeMolay. It is a mentoring organization that the development
of civic awareness, leadership skills and personal responsibility.

There is a charitable organization outside the structure of
Freemasonry that is named The United Religious, Military and Masonic
Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes
and Malta which is sometimes called the Masonic Knights Templar, but
has no direct connection to Freemasonry other than the fact that the
members are all Master Masons.

There are only three degrees - Entered Apprentice. Fellow Craft and
Master Mason. �Other "degrees" are declared, or to put it another way,
awarded depending on the Master Mason's involvement in the charitable
organization like the various Shrines or the Masonic Knights.

None of the Free Mason rituals are based on the rituals or theology of
the Knights Templar.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From Wiki:

Despite Freemasonry's general disclaimer that no one Masonic
organization claims a direct heritage to the medieval Knights Templar,
certain degrees and orders are obviously patterned after the medieval
Order. These are best described as "commemorative orders" or degrees.
Nevertheless, in spite of the fraternity's official disclaimers, some
Masons, non-Masons and even anti-Masons insist that certain Masonic
rites or degrees originally had direct Templar influence.

American Masonic youth organizations such as the Order of DeMolay for
young men are named after the last Grand Master Templar Jacques de
Molay who was executed in the final suppression of the Templar order
in the early 1300s.
The Knight of Rose-Croix Degree in the "Ancient Accepted Scottish
Rite", and honorary Orders like the Royal Order of Scotland are
interpreted as evidence of a historical Templar-Masonic connection,
though there is no factual basis for this belief.
Legends in certain degrees pertain to the involvement of Knights Under
the command of Sir John De Bermingham, First and Last Earl of Louth
aiding the excommunicated 14th Century Scottish King Robert the Bruce
at the Battle of Bannockburn; however this remains a point of debate.
Lack of documentation on behalf of the medieval Knights themselves,
and battle memoirs usually written years if not decades after the
actual engagement, have left much room for speculation. This story is
the basis for the degrees in the Royal Order of Scotland an
invitational Masonic honorary organization.
Templar connections have also been suggested through the Earls of
Rosslyn (St. Clair, or Sinclair) a family with well documented
connections with Scottish Freemasonry, one being a Grand Master of the
Grand Lodge of Scotland.
Many other old and new organizations are called "Knights Templar".
However, organizations like the Order of the Solar Temple, Militi
Templi Scotia,or the Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of
Jerusalem are in no way related to Masonic Knights Templar, and share
no relationship in either history, hierarchy, nor ritual.

*********

Like much pertaining to various systems of belief and ritual, few
things are reducible to absolutes and discussion continues, and
continues, and continues........ :-)

"Some Masons claim a link to the Knights Templar", but there is no
question that those Masons *could be* wrong.

Chuck Gould wrote in news:f42da1fc-950c-482b-
:


"Some Masons claim a link to the Knights Templar", but there is no
question that those Masons *could be* wrong.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...22488652468125
Here's an excellent Templar/Freemason/Lightbringers video from England.


Larry
--
QUOTE OF THE MONTH:
"I have been to several major Chinese cities and have seen first hand shops
crammed with obviously fake American products." - Jon Dudas, Undersecretary
of Commerce for Intellectual Property Rights.

How can they be fake? The Chinese make all "American Products" I use!

On Dec 20, 11:10�pm, Larry wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote in news:f42da1fc-950c-482b-
:



"Some Masons claim a link to the Knights Templar", but there is no
question that those Masons *could be* wrong.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...22488652468125
Here's an excellent Templar/Freemason/Lightbringers video from England.

Larry

Interesting film. I think some of the allegations are pretty extreme
and perhaps totally unfounded, but as far as propaganda pieces go it
was
cleverly orchestrated.

The timeline of events outlined inspired me to consider our
collective, public attitude toward political revolutions. The film
purports that nearly all political revolutions in the western world
have Masonic connections.
Our attitude has certainly changed. While only a minority of New
England colonists actively supported the American Revolution at the
time (most were apathetic, and too busy trying to farm to really care
one way or the other), we look back at those events as once of the
most glorious achievements in the last couple of thousand years. It is
a well established fact that most of the founding fathers were
Freemasons.

From our modern perspective, most folks are a little more dubious
about the French revolution that occured soon after. Only about 80
years after the US was founded we had our own internal revolution, and
certainly among the side that prevailed in the ensuing military
conflict there was no sympathy at all for the idea of political
revolution.

Ever since the beginning of the 20th Century we tend to disapprove of
political revolts. There have been some exceptions, but as a rule we
now think of revolution as a negative thing- but according to the
filmmaker the "socialist" Freemasons have been at the root of most of
them.

I fact checked the claim made about Harry Truman. There are scores of
references confirming that when he was VP and before the US became
involved in WWII he said that if if looked like Germany was going to
beat Russia we should send military supplies to the Russians, and that
if it looked like Russia was going to beat Germany we should instead
aid the Nazis. Truman's rationale: "we need to perpetuate the war so
they will each kill off as many as possible." Changes my opinion of
Truman, at least a little bit, even if the film failed to change my
general opinion of Freemasonry.

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:57:47 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Dec 20, 7:09?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Dec 20, 3:39?pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

The two are more entwined than you might imagine.

Masons often claim to be the philosophical descendants of the Knights
Templar.

The only connection between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry is
with the Order of DeMolay which is a youth organization named after
Jacques DeMolay. It is a mentoring organization that the development
of civic awareness, leadership skills and personal responsibility.

There is a charitable organization outside the structure of
Freemasonry that is named The United Religious, Military and Masonic
Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes
and Malta which is sometimes called the Masonic Knights Templar, but
has no direct connection to Freemasonry other than the fact that the
members are all Master Masons.

There are only three degrees - Entered Apprentice. Fellow Craft and
Master Mason. ?Other "degrees" are declared, or to put it another way,
awarded depending on the Master Mason's involvement in the charitable
organization like the various Shrines or the Masonic Knights.

None of the Free Mason rituals are based on the rituals or theology of
the Knights Templar.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From Wiki:

Despite Freemasonry's general disclaimer that no one Masonic
organization claims a direct heritage to the medieval Knights Templar,
certain degrees and orders are obviously patterned after the medieval
Order. These are best described as "commemorative orders" or degrees.
Nevertheless, in spite of the fraternity's official disclaimers, some
Masons, non-Masons and even anti-Masons insist that certain Masonic
rites or degrees originally had direct Templar influence.

And what exactly did I say? There are only three degrees in
Freemasonry - count 'em, three. Anything beyond Master Mason is
strictly commerative or social awards that have nothing to do with
Masonic degrees.

The base ritual in all lodges is exactly the same. The officers,
symbols, words, signs and signals, opening and closing ritual, pieces
of note are exactly the same. The altar is exactly the same. What is
placed on the altar is exactly the same in exaclty the same place
facing in the same direction. There are minor differences sometimes
by Grand Lodge, regional or even local, but the base ritual and ranks
of officers of the Lodge are set in stone - so to speak.

The differences involve things like meeting times or commerative
formatting but even there, it follows the same order. An example of a
"difference" between lodges would be the local lodge here in Woodstock
which is called a Moon Lodge - lodge is held on the night of a full
moon unless it's a regular Sunday in which case it is held Saturday
the night before the full moon or if Sunday is a religious holiday
(like Easter Sunday or Christmas) the day after. (Interesting note:
You can count the number of moon lodges in the US on one hand and most
of them are out west - the Woodstock lodge is the only one in New
England). The lodge up in Southbridge is a Blue Lodge - meaning it is
one of the original chartered lodges by the Grand Lodge of
Massachuetts and has no numeric designation.

The whole base ritual of all Masonic ritual is the "story" of Hiriam
Abif and the building of the Temple of Solomon. Most of it is made up
history, but it sounds good. There are certainly magical and mystical
elements to it, but what fraternity doesn't have similar features.

It has nothing to do with Knights Templar other than what I stated and
those Orders do not have anything in common with base level
Freemasonry.

American Masonic youth organizations such as the Order of DeMolay for
young men are named after the last Grand Master Templar Jacques de
Molay who was executed in the final suppression of the Templar order
in the early 1300s.

~~ snip ~~

Many other old and new organizations are called "Knights Templar".
However, organizations like the Order of the Solar Temple, Militi
Templi Scotia,or the Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of
Jerusalem are in no way related to Masonic Knights Templar, and share
no relationship in either history, hierarchy, nor ritual.

Nothing I said contradicts this - these are commerative or honorary or
associative "degrees" and have nothing to do with Masonry other than a
casual relationship of having to be a Third Degree Master Mason to
participate. They bear no relationship to where the power of Masonry
lies which is with the local lodge.

In Freemasonry, there are no higher degrees than Master Mason.

Like much pertaining to various systems of belief and ritual, few
things are reducible to absolutes and discussion continues, and
continues, and continues........ :-)

"Some Masons claim a link to the Knights Templar", but there is no
question that those Masons *could be* wrong.

I would suggest you actualy talk to a Mason who has spent some time in
lodges and as an officer. I might also suggest that you stop reading
DaVinci Code.

On Dec 21, 3:23�am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:57:47 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Dec 20, 7:09?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
On Dec 20, 3:39?pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

The two are more entwined than you might imagine.

Masons often claim to be the philosophical descendants of the Knights
Templar.

The only connection between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry is
with the Order of DeMolay which is a youth organization named after
Jacques DeMolay. It is a mentoring organization that the development
of civic awareness, leadership skills and personal responsibility.

There is a charitable organization outside the structure of
Freemasonry that is named The United Religious, Military and Masonic
Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes
and Malta which is sometimes called the Masonic Knights Templar, but
has no direct connection to Freemasonry other than the fact that the
members are all Master Masons.

There are only three degrees - Entered Apprentice. Fellow Craft and
Master Mason. ?Other "degrees" are declared, or to put it another way,
awarded depending on the Master Mason's involvement in the charitable
organization like the various Shrines or the Masonic Knights.

None of the Free Mason rituals are based on the rituals or theology of
the Knights Templar.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From Wiki:

Despite Freemasonry's general disclaimer that no one Masonic
organization claims a direct heritage to the medieval Knights Templar,
certain degrees and orders are obviously patterned after the medieval
Order. These are best described as "commemorative orders" or degrees.
Nevertheless, in spite of the fraternity's official disclaimers, some
Masons, non-Masons and even anti-Masons insist that certain Masonic
rites or degrees originally had direct Templar influence.

And what exactly did I say? �There are only three degrees in
Freemasonry - count 'em, three. �Anything beyond Master Mason is
strictly commerative or social awards that have nothing to do with
Masonic degrees.

The base ritual in all lodges is exactly the same. �The officers,
symbols, words, signs and signals, opening and closing ritual, pieces
of note are exactly the same. �The altar is exactly the same. What is
placed on the altar is exactly the same in exaclty the same place
facing in the same direction. �There are minor differences sometimes
by Grand Lodge, regional or even local, but the base ritual and ranks
of officers of the Lodge are set in stone - so to speak.

The differences involve things like meeting times or commerative
formatting but even there, it follows the same order. �An example of a
"difference" between lodges would be the local lodge here in Woodstock
which is called a Moon Lodge - lodge is held on the night of a full
moon unless it's a regular Sunday in which case it is held Saturday
the night before the full moon or if Sunday is a religious holiday
(like Easter Sunday or Christmas) the day after. (Interesting note:
You can count the number of moon lodges in the US on one hand and most
of them are out west - the Woodstock lodge is the only one in New
England). �The lodge up in Southbridge is a Blue Lodge - meaning it is
one of the original chartered lodges by the Grand Lodge of
Massachuetts and has no numeric designation.

The whole base ritual of all Masonic ritual is the "story" of Hiriam
Abif and the building of the Temple of Solomon. �Most of it is made up
history, but it sounds good. There are certainly magical and mystical
elements to it, but what fraternity doesn't have similar features.

It has nothing to do with Knights Templar other than what I stated and
those Orders do not have anything in common with base level
Freemasonry.



American Masonic youth organizations such as the Order of DeMolay for
young men are named after the last Grand Master Templar Jacques de
Molay who was executed in the final suppression of the Templar order
in the early 1300s.

~~ snip ~~

Many other old and new organizations are called "Knights Templar".
However, organizations like the Order of the Solar Temple, Militi
Templi Scotia,or the Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of
Jerusalem are in no way related to Masonic Knights Templar, and share
no relationship in either history, hierarchy, nor ritual.

Nothing I said contradicts this - these are commerative or honorary or
associative "degrees" and have nothing to do with Masonry other than a
casual relationship of having to be a Third Degree Master Mason to
participate. �They bear no relationship to where the power of Masonry
lies which is with the local lodge.

In Freemasonry, there are no higher degrees than Master Mason.

Like much pertaining to various systems of belief and ritual, few
things are reducible to absolutes and discussion continues, and
continues, and continues........ :-)

"Some Masons claim a link to the Knights Templar", but there is no
question that those Masons *could be* wrong.

I would suggest you actualy talk to a Mason who has spent some time in
lodges and as an officer. �I might also suggest that you stop reading
DaVinci Code.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's a Mason who disagrees with you:

http://www.robertlomas.com/Freemason/Origins.html

Apparently there are differences of opinion within the order.
And of course, there are a variety of "rites" with varying numbers of
degrees operating under the common Masonic umbrella.

Is trying to identify the "true Freemason" as difficult as figuring
out who is a "real" American, Republican, Democrat, or Christian? :-)

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:16:44 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Dec 21, 3:23?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:57:47 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Dec 20, 7:09?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:15:38 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
On Dec 20, 3:39?pm, John H. wrote:
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:31:28 +0000, Larry wrote:
John H. wrote in
:

but the Battle Hymn of the Republic *was* religious, after all.

More Masonic than religious....actually.
http://www.masonmusic.org/uslodge.html
They play it a lot....

Larry

I thought of Christ as a religious, as opposed to Masonic, symbol.
--
John H

The two are more entwined than you might imagine.

Masons often claim to be the philosophical descendants of the Knights
Templar.

The only connection between the Knights Templar and Freemasonry is
with the Order of DeMolay which is a youth organization named after
Jacques DeMolay. It is a mentoring organization that the development
of civic awareness, leadership skills and personal responsibility.

There is a charitable organization outside the structure of
Freemasonry that is named The United Religious, Military and Masonic
Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes
and Malta which is sometimes called the Masonic Knights Templar, but
has no direct connection to Freemasonry other than the fact that the
members are all Master Masons.

There are only three degrees - Entered Apprentice. Fellow Craft and
Master Mason. ?Other "degrees" are declared, or to put it another way,
awarded depending on the Master Mason's involvement in the charitable
organization like the various Shrines or the Masonic Knights.

None of the Free Mason rituals are based on the rituals or theology of
the Knights Templar.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

From Wiki:

Despite Freemasonry's general disclaimer that no one Masonic
organization claims a direct heritage to the medieval Knights Templar,
certain degrees and orders are obviously patterned after the medieval
Order. These are best described as "commemorative orders" or degrees.
Nevertheless, in spite of the fraternity's official disclaimers, some
Masons, non-Masons and even anti-Masons insist that certain Masonic
rites or degrees originally had direct Templar influence.

And what exactly did I say? ?There are only three degrees in
Freemasonry - count 'em, three. ?Anything beyond Master Mason is
strictly commerative or social awards that have nothing to do with
Masonic degrees.

The base ritual in all lodges is exactly the same. ?The officers,
symbols, words, signs and signals, opening and closing ritual, pieces
of note are exactly the same. ?The altar is exactly the same. What is
placed on the altar is exactly the same in exaclty the same place
facing in the same direction. ?There are minor differences sometimes
by Grand Lodge, regional or even local, but the base ritual and ranks
of officers of the Lodge are set in stone - so to speak.

The differences involve things like meeting times or commerative
formatting but even there, it follows the same order. ?An example of a
"difference" between lodges would be the local lodge here in Woodstock
which is called a Moon Lodge - lodge is held on the night of a full
moon unless it's a regular Sunday in which case it is held Saturday
the night before the full moon or if Sunday is a religious holiday
(like Easter Sunday or Christmas) the day after. (Interesting note:
You can count the number of moon lodges in the US on one hand and most
of them are out west - the Woodstock lodge is the only one in New
England). ?The lodge up in Southbridge is a Blue Lodge - meaning it is
one of the original chartered lodges by the Grand Lodge of
Massachuetts and has no numeric designation.

The whole base ritual of all Masonic ritual is the "story" of Hiriam
Abif and the building of the Temple of Solomon. ?Most of it is made up
history, but it sounds good. There are certainly magical and mystical
elements to it, but what fraternity doesn't have similar features.

It has nothing to do with Knights Templar other than what I stated and
those Orders do not have anything in common with base level
Freemasonry.



American Masonic youth organizations such as the Order of DeMolay for
young men are named after the last Grand Master Templar Jacques de
Molay who was executed in the final suppression of the Templar order
in the early 1300s.

~~ snip ~~

Many other old and new organizations are called "Knights Templar".
However, organizations like the Order of the Solar Temple, Militi
Templi Scotia,or the Sovereign Military Order of the Temple of
Jerusalem are in no way related to Masonic Knights Templar, and share
no relationship in either history, hierarchy, nor ritual.

Nothing I said contradicts this - these are commerative or honorary or
associative "degrees" and have nothing to do with Masonry other than a
casual relationship of having to be a Third Degree Master Mason to
participate. ?They bear no relationship to where the power of Masonry
lies which is with the local lodge.

In Freemasonry, there are no higher degrees than Master Mason.

Like much pertaining to various systems of belief and ritual, few
things are reducible to absolutes and discussion continues, and
continues, and continues........ :-)

"Some Masons claim a link to the Knights Templar", but there is no
question that those Masons *could be* wrong.

I would suggest you actualy talk to a Mason who has spent some time in
lodges and as an officer. ?I might also suggest that you stop reading
DaVinci Code.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here's a Mason who disagrees with you:

http://www.robertlomas.com/Freemason/Origins.html

Apparently there are differences of opinion within the order.
And of course, there are a variety of "rites" with varying numbers of
degrees operating under the common Masonic umbrella.

Is trying to identify the "true Freemason" as difficult as figuring
out who is a "real" American, Republican, Democrat, or Christian? :-)

Chuck, just go listen to the music (without what you may consider the
bothersome religious symbols).

http://tinyurl.com/35plpm
--
John H

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:16:44 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:


Here's a Mason who disagrees with you:

http://www.robertlomas.com/Freemason/Origins.html

Apparently there are differences of opinion within the order.
And of course, there are a variety of "rites" with varying numbers of
degrees operating under the common Masonic umbrella.

Ah yes - Dr. Robert Lomas.

I won't get into the whole Lomas suppositions as they have been
thoroughly debunked by serious historians - they even did a Discovery
Channel Special on Lomas's "work". He's considered the Eric von
Daniken of Masonic conspiracy theorists - by other Masonic conspiracy
theorists.

He's also the one who claims that the Knights Templar treasure is
located beneath the chapel.

Or the lawn.

Or the West Tower based on some arcane methodology crossing Knights
Templar and Masonic Ritual, phases of the moon, the Aztec Columnar
Table and the price of tea in Tibet.

However, to get back to the Knights Templar being the progenitors of
Masonic Ritual.

I hate to burst your oh so not careful research on the subject, but
the whole Masonic Knights thing is an inside joke - has been for a
long time.

Think Masons and Knights.

Is trying to identify the "true Freemason" as difficult as figuring
out who is a "real" American, Republican, Democrat, or Christian? :-)

Not at all.

What it does prove is that folks who have little or no knowledge of
the subject will theorize, extemporize and a lot of other izes
combining and interpolating all kinds of obscure claptrap to prove
their point.

The simple truth is this - Free Masons are lodge based, governed by
the same sets of rules and have nothing in common with Knights Templar
or any other mysterious order of antiquity other than that invented
when the Fraternity was established. I can point you to Catholic
ritual which is also very similar to the establishment of an Entered
Apprentice - does that mean that Masons are descended from Benedictine
Monks?

Pseudo detective work with little or no meaning.

If you are really interested in feeding your obvious appetite for
deconstructing all things historical, here's a few to keep you busy -
I can imagine you will find all finds of interesting fodder.

Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem.

The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem,
of Rhodes and of Malta.

The Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great.

The Most Honorable Military Order of the Bath.