Tim wrote in news:e7938d8c-bfb3-4c43-a41f-
:

I really don't know what nor how to consider that statement, but if
anything else, I don't subscribe to seemingly every conspiracy theory
that can be drempt up. So I'm sitting here humorously pondering who
and/or what the real "sheeple" is... or are"



Those who forget the Inquisition are bound, like history, to repeat it.

What's going on in America with Christian Fundamentalism, if left
unquestioned to infect the innocent young, as it does, may well be the
Inquisition all over again for "God's Army". I hope we can hold that off
long enough for me to enjoy a few years of retirement and a natural death
before the blood letting, burning at the stakes and dying for someone's god
starts over again.

Over 5,500 humans are murdered each day by this religion or that
religion....every day. How stupid....Humans self-destruct, automatically.

Larry
--
QUOTE OF THE MONTH:
"I have been to several major Chinese cities and have seen first hand shops
crammed with obviously fake American products." - Jon Dudas, Undersecretary
of Commerce for Intellectual Property Rights.

How can they be fake? The Chinese make all "American Products" I use!

HK wrote in news:YNudnVGW7PPq1
:

All this fuss over a guy who was born Jewish, lived Jewish, and died
Jewish, who didn't preach to the pagans and didn't want to, and never
intended that a bunch of guys break off from Judaism and start a "new"
religion based upon a name he never had.

:}



A "guy" who many now think may never have existed in the first place...

Larry
--
QUOTE OF THE MONTH:
"I have been to several major Chinese cities and have seen first hand shops
crammed with obviously fake American products." - Jon Dudas, Undersecretary
of Commerce for Intellectual Property Rights.

How can they be fake? The Chinese make all "American Products" I use!

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

There are no levels above Master Mason.



Then simply explain away the consistently-recurring pyramid above
them....???

Larry
--
QUOTE OF THE MONTH:
"I have been to several major Chinese cities and have seen first hand shops
crammed with obviously fake American products." - Jon Dudas, Undersecretary
of Commerce for Intellectual Property Rights.

How can they be fake? The Chinese make all "American Products" I use!

On Dec 21, 4:46�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:16:44 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
Here's a Mason who disagrees with you:

http://www.robertlomas.com/Freemason/Origins.html

Apparently there are differences of opinion within the order.
And of course, there are a variety of "rites" with varying numbers of
degrees operating under the common Masonic umbrella.

Ah yes - Dr. Robert Lomas.

I won't get into the whole Lomas suppositions as they have been
thoroughly debunked by serious historians - they even did a Discovery
Channel Special on Lomas's "work". �He's considered the Eric von
Daniken of Masonic conspiracy theorists - by other Masonic conspiracy
theorists.

He's also the one who claims that the Knights Templar treasure is
located beneath the chapel.

Or the lawn.

Or the West Tower based on some arcane methodology crossing Knights
Templar and Masonic Ritual, phases of the moon, the Aztec Columnar
Table and the price of tea in Tibet.

However, to get back to the Knights Templar being the progenitors of
Masonic Ritual.

I hate to burst your oh so not careful research on the subject, but
the whole Masonic Knights thing is an inside joke - has been for a
long time.

Think Masons and Knights.

Is trying to identify the "true Freemason" as difficult as figuring
out who is a "real" American, Republican, Democrat, or Christian? �:-)

Not at all.

What it does prove is that folks who have little or no knowledge of
the subject will theorize, extemporize and a lot of other izes
combining and interpolating all kinds of obscure claptrap to prove
their point.

The simple truth is this - Free Masons are lodge based, governed by
the same sets of rules and have nothing in common with Knights Templar
or any other mysterious order of antiquity other than that invented
when the Fraternity was established. �I can point you to Catholic
ritual which is also very similar to the establishment of an Entered
Apprentice - does that mean that Masons are descended from Benedictine
Monks?

Pseudo detective work with little or no meaning.

If you are really interested in feeding your obvious appetite for
deconstructing all things historical, here's a few to keep you busy -
I can imagine you will find all finds of interesting fodder.

Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulcher of Jerusalem.

The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem,
of Rhodes and of Malta.

The Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great.

The Most Honorable Military Order of the Bath.


And yet another Van Daniken site?

http://www.knightstemplar.ca/join.htm


My original statement was that some Masons regard the Knights Templar
as their philosophical ancestors. In the course of our discussion, I
have cited several Masons making that exact claim.

Wave the rule book all you like. I don't claim to be well versed in
the details of Freemasonry- but nothing trotted out as official
Masonic doctrine changes the fact that I stated; some Masons do regard
the Knights Templay as philosophical ancestors. And as I noted very
early on, those Masons could be wrong.

This could be one of those interminable cite wars, but to what point?
I'm not addressing or challenging the official rules or position,
merely noting that some Masons feel a certain way. The rules don't
disprove that, nor do the apparently maverick masons (thousands of
them) disprove your knowledge of the rules of the order.

Is Freemasonry so draconian that no Mason can think or feel anything
that isn't authorized in the official doctrine? Some Masons consider
the Knights Templar philosophical ancestors, even if the official
rules do not.

On Dec 22, 12:43*am, Larry wrote:
Tim wrote in news:e7938d8c-bfb3-4c43-a41f-
:

I really don't know what nor how *to consider that statement, but if
anything else, I don't subscribe to seemingly every conspiracy theory
that can be drempt up. So I'm sitting here humorously pondering who
and/or what the real "sheeple" is... or are"

Those who forget the Inquisition are bound, like history, to repeat it.

What's going on in America with Christian Fundamentalism, if left
unquestioned to infect the innocent young, as it does, may well be the


Yeah, yeah, Larry. I sincerely doubt if you've considered that there
are more people...WAY FAR more people killed by drunk drivers than by
" Christian religious fundamentalists" per year?


Inquisition all over again for "God's Army". I hope we can hold that off
long enough for me to enjoy a few years of retirement and a natural death
before the blood letting, burning at the stakes and dying for someone's god
starts over again.

Larry are you afraid you'd be held in the first kangaroo court and be
tried for your "sins" agains psuedo christianity and be condemned to
be dipped in hot oit before being light up like a fondue?

Actually I think you're doing yourself and the world a far greater
service by investigating that the Masonic Lodge and the Illuminati
and they're ideas of world supremacy and that they'd stop at nothing
to do it!!! Thise are the ones you need toworry about......

After alll they DID have JFK assinated. and rememeber on the Kennedy
half dollar, they put that tiny little hammer and sickle at the base
of kennedys neck just to remind you where a bullet came though, right?

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:15:31 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

Is Freemasonry so draconian that no Mason can think or feel anything
that isn't authorized in the official doctrine? Some Masons consider
the Knights Templar philosophical ancestors, even if the official
rules do not

Never mind Chuck.

Believe what you will.

WaIIy wrote in
:

On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 06:43:24 +0000, Larry wrote:

What's going on in America with Christian Fundamentalism, if left
unquestioned to infect the innocent young, as it does, may well be
the
Inquisition all over again for "God's Army".

Larry, stick to electronics and stfu about religion.

You know better.


I know better? What does that mean? Noone forces you to read my
posts. So far, I don't think you and your cult can shut me up,
either...

Larry
--
QUOTE OF THE MONTH:
"I have been to several major Chinese cities and have seen first hand
shops crammed with obviously fake American products." - Jon Dudas,
Undersecretary of Commerce for Intellectual Property Rights.

How can they be fake? The Chinese make all "American Products" I
use!

On 21 Dec, 22:07, Gene Kearns
wrote:
I think Larry is trying to get you to look at the source of the Bible.
Have you ever considered the testaments that *weren't* included in the
Bible?

The Catholics decided, in the 4th century, what you should believe
and.... by a show of hands .....decided what should be considered holy
and what should be considered anathema. If one was politically correct
one's motion(dogma) carried, if not it didn't. The true word was
created!

So it says in the "Da Vinci code". Must be true, I suppose?

Of course it's complete nonsense.

I first graduated from a college affiliated with a particular
Christian denomination. We were required to study religion and I found
studying both sides of a central point in time established by the
Councils ofNiceato be an amazing trip. This led me to the conclusion
that anybody that feels that they are Christian should do at least two
things:

1) Read the Bible.... ALL OF IT..... and

2) Study the history of the creation of Christianity....

Agree or disagree with what you like..... but you owe it to yourself
to be an informed consumer....

So why didn't you learn about the subject before you posted such
arrant tripe?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse wrote:
On 21 Dec, 22:07, Gene Kearns
wrote:
I think Larry is trying to get you to look at the source of the Bible.
Have you ever considered the testaments that *weren't* included in the
Bible?

The Catholics decided, in the 4th century, what you should believe
and.... by a show of hands .....decided what should be considered holy
and what should be considered anathema. If one was politically correct
one's motion(dogma) carried, if not it didn't. The true word was
created!

So it says in the "Da Vinci code". Must be true, I suppose?

Of course it's complete nonsense.


Ah, yes, the Council of Nicaea never took place in 325 CE. Right.

But others think it was the first ecumenical council of the Christian
church, meeting in ancient Nicaea. It was called by the emperor
Constantine I, an unbaptized catechumen, or neophyte, who presided over
the opening session and took part in the discussions. He hoped a general
council of the church would solve the problem created in the Eastern
church by Arianism, a heresy first proposed by Arius of Alexandria that
affirmed that Christ is not divine but a created being. Pope Sylvester I
did not attend the council but was represented by legates.

The council condemned Arius and, with reluctance on the part of some,
incorporated the nonscriptural word homoousios (“of one substance”) into
a creed (the Nicene Creed) to signify the absolute equality of the Son
with the Father. The emperor then exiled Arius, an act that, while
manifesting a solidarity of church and state, underscored the importance
of secular patronage in ecclesiastical affairs.

The council also attempted but failed to establish a uniform date for
Easter. But it issued decrees on many other matters, including the
proper method of consecrating bishops, a condemnation of lending money
at interest by clerics, and a refusal to allow bishops, priests, and
deacons to move from one church to another. Socrates Scholasticus, a
5th-century Byzantine historian, said that the council intended to make
a canon enforcing celibacy of the clergy, but it failed to do so when
some objected. It also confirmed the primacy of Alexandria and Jerusalem
over other sees in their respective areas.

Ergo, Gene was correct. So sorry.

On Dec 25, 1:14�pm, Roger Pearse wrote:
On 21 Dec, 22:07, Gene Kearns
wrote:

I think Larry is trying to get you to look at the source of the Bible.
Have you ever considered the testaments that *weren't* included in the
Bible?

The Catholics decided, in the 4th century, what you should believe
and.... by a show of hands .....decided what should be considered holy
and what should be considered anathema. If one was politically correct
one's motion(dogma) carried, if not it didn't. The true word was
created!

So it says in the "Da Vinci code". �Must be true, I suppose?

Of course it's complete nonsense.

I first graduated from a college affiliated with a particular
Christian denomination. We were required to study religion and I found
studying both sides of a central point in time established by the
Councils ofNiceato be an amazing trip. This led me to the conclusion
that anybody that feels that they are Christian should do at least two
things:

1) Read the Bible.... ALL OF IT..... and

2) Study the history of the creation of Christianity....

Agree or disagree with what you like..... but you owe it to yourself
to be an informed consumer....

So why didn't you learn about the subject before you posted such
arrant tripe?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

While the council didn't specifically canonize the modern Bible,
Constantine did order at essentially that same time 50 copies of the
"approved" religious texts for use in the churches of Constantinople.
Modern scholars disagree whether those approved scriptures included
nearly all of the current "New Testament" or merely Matthew, Mark,
Luke, and John- but there is no thought that any books not included in
a modern Bible were made available to the churches in Constantinople.
The council at Nicea did order the burning of books representing
minority viewpoints regarding whether God was of a triune nature, etc.
At least one major priest was kicked out of the church for "wrong
thinking".

Nevertheless, as Gene said by the end of the 4th Century the Church
had convened a series of committe meetings to discuss and debate which
books should be included in the official Bible, and things decided
then are still in effect today.

In addition to Nicea,there were councils convened at Laodicea and
Carthage that addressed canonization. A number of false assumptions
prevailed at these councils, including the common belief that books we
now know did not exist prior to 150-180 AD were "apostolic" writings,
(authored by men who had traveled with Jesus). If the books were
written by the original disciplies (many of whom were probably
illiterate), the disciples would certainly have lived to a very ripe
old age.

Interesting note: Harry Potter novels and works by Stephen King
notwithstanding, the Bible is the world's best selling book year after
year.