On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:41:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

Interesting video.

I wonder how it affects bow-to-stern movement? It is a gyro - seems
to me that if it has that much of an effect on side-to-side roll, it
would have the same effect on bow-to-stern movement..

The gyro vacuum enclosure appears to be mechanically restricted to fore and
aft gimble movement, so I suspect it stabilizes on one axis only.

How the fore and aft movement translates to stabilizing beam to beam I think
has something to do with the principles of gyroscopic progression, similar
to helecopter controls of blade pitch.

But, I might be wrong.

I didn't think of that.

Good point.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:41:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..

Interesting video.

I wonder how it affects bow-to-stern movement? It is a gyro - seems
to me that if it has that much of an effect on side-to-side roll, it
would have the same effect on bow-to-stern movement..

The gyro vacuum enclosure appears to be mechanically restricted to fore
and
aft gimble movement, so I suspect it stabilizes on one axis only.

How the fore and aft movement translates to stabilizing beam to beam I
think
has something to do with the principles of gyroscopic progression, similar
to helecopter controls of blade pitch.

But, I might be wrong.

I didn't think of that.

Good point.

Further on my boring analysis of this system ....

The manufacturer acknowledges that the system is similar to another similar
system, but claims it is superior due to the gryo being located within a
vacuum enclosure, thereby reducing the friction due to air. The gyro can
spin at a higher speed, therefore can be made smaller and uses less power.

Fine.

But, having mucho years trying to make mechanical objects spin, move, etc.
in a vacuum environment, there is one potential issue that comes immediately
to mind.

In a vacuum there is no convective heat transfer to speak of, and very, very
little conductive heat transfer due to virtual point contact. Bearings
generate heat, particularly in high speed applications and if that heat
cannot be transfered away from the balls and races, the bearings tend to
self destruct. We used to use specially prepared aerospace bearings
designed for space flight in the systems we built ... and even then often
had problems with high speed applications.

It seems to me the big "breakthrough" in this product is the vacuum
enclosure of the high speed gyro. I'd be interested in how they handled the
issue I've described.

Eisboch

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:08:34 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:41:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Interesting video.

I wonder how it affects bow-to-stern movement? It is a gyro - seems
to me that if it has that much of an effect on side-to-side roll, it
would have the same effect on bow-to-stern movement..

The gyro vacuum enclosure appears to be mechanically restricted to fore
and
aft gimble movement, so I suspect it stabilizes on one axis only.

How the fore and aft movement translates to stabilizing beam to beam I
think
has something to do with the principles of gyroscopic progression, similar
to helecopter controls of blade pitch.

But, I might be wrong.

I didn't think of that.

Good point.

Further on my boring analysis of this system ....

The manufacturer acknowledges that the system is similar to another similar
system, but claims it is superior due to the gryo being located within a
vacuum enclosure, thereby reducing the friction due to air. The gyro can
spin at a higher speed, therefore can be made smaller and uses less power.

Fine.

But, having mucho years trying to make mechanical objects spin, move, etc.
in a vacuum environment, there is one potential issue that comes immediately
to mind.

In a vacuum there is no convective heat transfer to speak of, and very, very
little conductive heat transfer due to virtual point contact. Bearings
generate heat, particularly in high speed applications and if that heat
cannot be transfered away from the balls and races, the bearings tend to
self destruct. We used to use specially prepared aerospace bearings
designed for space flight in the systems we built ... and even then often
had problems with high speed applications.

It seems to me the big "breakthrough" in this product is the vacuum
enclosure of the high speed gyro. I'd be interested in how they handled the
issue I've described.

It might be that their "vacuum" is really a low pressure inert gas
system which might allow for heat transfer. Looking at the video, the
exterior of that ball looks like it might have heat sinks on it.

Yes/no?

It also depends on how fast the flywheel is rotating. They don't
mention the RPM figure that I can find.

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 17:08:34 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

It seems to me the big "breakthrough" in this product is the vacuum
enclosure of the high speed gyro. I'd be interested in how they handled the
issue I've described.

Good questions. They were talking about using signicant power to spin
it, something like 1.5 KW even though it's in a vacuum. That would
imply that it has a fair amount of friction and quite a bit of heat to
dissipate. It will generate a lot of side loading on the bearings as
it resists the boats rolling motion. Imagine the chaos on board if it
ever jumped loose from its cage!

This has all been tried before if my memory is correct. As I recall,
the problem with the older systems was that the gyro had to be quite
large, probably because they were running it at a lower speed.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 16:41:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Interesting video.

I wonder how it affects bow-to-stern movement? It is a gyro - seems
to me that if it has that much of an effect on side-to-side roll, it
would have the same effect on bow-to-stern movement..

The gyro vacuum enclosure appears to be mechanically restricted to fore
and
aft gimble movement, so I suspect it stabilizes on one axis only.

How the fore and aft movement translates to stabilizing beam to beam I
think
has something to do with the principles of gyroscopic progression,
similar
to helecopter controls of blade pitch.

But, I might be wrong.

I didn't think of that.

Good point.

Further on my boring analysis of this system ....

The manufacturer acknowledges that the system is similar to another
similar system, but claims it is superior due to the gryo being located
within a vacuum enclosure, thereby reducing the friction due to air. The
gyro can spin at a higher speed, therefore can be made smaller and uses
less power.

Fine.

But, having mucho years trying to make mechanical objects spin, move, etc.
in a vacuum environment, there is one potential issue that comes
immediately to mind.

In a vacuum there is no convective heat transfer to speak of, and very,
very little conductive heat transfer due to virtual point contact.
Bearings generate heat, particularly in high speed applications and if
that heat cannot be transfered away from the balls and races, the bearings
tend to self destruct. We used to use specially prepared aerospace
bearings designed for space flight in the systems we built ... and even
then often had problems with high speed applications.

It seems to me the big "breakthrough" in this product is the vacuum
enclosure of the high speed gyro. I'd be interested in how they handled
the issue I've described.

Eisboch
\

Maybe like diskdrives. No ball bearings. Fluid bearings.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Interesting video.

I wonder how it affects bow-to-stern movement? It is a gyro - seems
to me that if it has that much of an effect on side-to-side roll, it
would have the same effect on bow-to-stern movement..

The gyro vacuum enclosure appears to be mechanically restricted to fore
and aft gimble movement, so I suspect it stabilizes on one axis only.

How the fore and aft movement translates to stabilizing beam to beam I
think has something to do with the principles of gyroscopic
progression, similar to helecopter controls of blade pitch.

But, I might be wrong.

Eisboch
Progression is what progressives do. Precession is what gyroscopes do.
Or try to do.

Del Cecchi wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
Interesting video.

I wonder how it affects bow-to-stern movement? It is a gyro - seems
to me that if it has that much of an effect on side-to-side roll, it
would have the same effect on bow-to-stern movement..
The gyro vacuum enclosure appears to be mechanically restricted to fore
and aft gimble movement, so I suspect it stabilizes on one axis only.

How the fore and aft movement translates to stabilizing beam to beam I
think has something to do with the principles of gyroscopic
progression, similar to helecopter controls of blade pitch.

But, I might be wrong.

Eisboch
Progression is what progressives do. Precession is what gyroscopes do.
Or try to do.




With the right gyro and a skyhook, you can precess yourself into another
dimension. :}