"John H." wrote in message
...


It would be even more prudent to completely do away with any form of ID?
No
birth certificate, no diplomas, no paperwork of any kind which identifies
a
person. You say you're Gene, I say I'm Gene, and no one can tell the
difference, except maybe your mom. But, that would assume she was given
the
right child at the hospital, where no form of ID was used. Interesting.


I like it. Think about it .... 100 years ago nobody had a driver's license
or a social security card number. Many probably didn't even have a birth
certificate.

It gives cause to really think about where we are heading. Implanted chips
at birth is not out of the question.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"John H." wrote in message
...


It would be even more prudent to completely do away with any form of ID?
No
birth certificate, no diplomas, no paperwork of any kind which identifies
a
person. You say you're Gene, I say I'm Gene, and no one can tell the
difference, except maybe your mom. But, that would assume she was given
the
right child at the hospital, where no form of ID was used. Interesting.


I like it. Think about it .... 100 years ago nobody had a driver's
license or a social security card number. Many probably didn't even have
a birth certificate.

It gives cause to really think about where we are heading. Implanted
chips at birth is not out of the question.

Eisboch


Very, VERY bad idea....

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:28:00 -0500, John H. penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).

Snipped

I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.

Wouldn't it be more prudent and cost effective to have chips implanted
at birth? No more lost children or adults, in case of emergency you
could be immediately located and identified, and the government would
know where you are at any given time. No more terrorism!

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats

Mr. Ellison and Oracle can run the supply side.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:50:30 GMT, penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:16:17 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:
|
|On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:13:36 -0400, penned the following
|well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
|
|On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:
|
|USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
|of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
|boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
|explosives and used to
|blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
|presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
|*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
|(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
|in several areas).
|
|
|
|I don't know where USA Today got their information, but the USCG
|proposal specifically REJECTS creation of any additional or special
|ID. They adamantly DO NOT want one. The idea is that any photo ID such
|as a drivers license or state issued ID in lieu of a drivers license
|would be all that is needed.
|
|
|Not so, Dana Goward, director of Coast Guard maritime domain
|awareness, is "very concerned about people doing harm with small
|vessels" and that it is “time to look at this other gap."
|
|Adm. Thad Allen, commandant of the Coast Guard says, "... that the
|issue needed extra attention." Allen is, also, in favor of
|"requir[ing] boat operators to have a special license," because that
|apparently has some magical power to allow us to "know to a degree of
|certainty who are operating boats out there."
|
|
|The USCG WRITTEN proposal specifically and emphaticaly rejects the
|idea of a new, separate ID. They want to require that you carry a
|drivers license or other similar ID.
|

Cite?

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 15:46:09 -0500, John H. penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


|You and Chuck both seem to say nothing is necessary because it's not
|perfection. I disagree with that attitude. ID's can be developed that have
|much more than a picture imprinted thereon. But, those won't be perfect
|either.
|
|I disagree with the attitude that since perfection is unobtainable, we
|should do nothing.

No. What I am saying is that adding yet another piece of paper to
those already required will not enhance security any more than giving
illegal aliens a driver's license does.

We had a sufficient paper trail to have deported most, if not all, of
the perps from 9/11, but that did us no good. I already have a
passport.... what would a national id do that it won't?

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------
www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com - *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

I like it. Think about it .... 100 years ago nobody had a driver's
license or a social security card number. Many probably didn't even have
a birth certificate.

It gives cause to really think about where we are heading. Implanted
chips at birth is not out of the question.

Eisboch


Very, VERY bad idea....


I can think of one presidential candidate who would probably love the idea.
You know .... the one that wants to bonus every kid with 5k at birth. How
else will your "investment" be tracked?

Eisboch

On Oct 31, 11:52?am, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:39:08 -0700, Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:11?am, John H. wrote:

Or...nope, I didn't have my birth certificate. Your arguments lean toward
the absurd. They seem to support the 'no ID' philosophy which allows anyone
to vote, whether a citizen or not. I don't buy it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since there is no such thing as a "federal election," (citizens do not
directly elect any federal officials- except Senators and
Representatives from their individual states) there is no need for a
federal voter ID.

The smaller the government, the less of a threat it becomes to the
governed.

You mean like a one man dictatorship or a monarchy?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, small also implies a limitation of power as well as the number of
people participating in the process of governing. Absolute
governments, such as a dictatorship or a non-constitutional monarchy
are enormous in their intrusion and power.

We had it about right during the Constitutional convention. We fairly
well perfected it with the Bill of Rights. It's gone gradually all to
heck since then. :-)

On Oct 31, 11:50 am, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:16:17 -0400, Gene Kearns





wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:13:36 -0400, penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).

I don't know where USA Today got their information, but the USCG
proposal specifically REJECTS creation of any additional or special
ID. They adamantly DO NOT want one. The idea is that any photo ID such
as a drivers license or state issued ID in lieu of a drivers license
would be all that is needed.

Not so, Dana Goward, director of Coast Guard maritime domain
awareness, is "very concerned about people doing harm with small
vessels" and that it is "time to look at this other gap."

Adm. Thad Allen, commandant of the Coast Guard says, "... that the
issue needed extra attention." Allen is, also, in favor of
"requir[ing] boat operators to have a special license," because that
apparently has some magical power to allow us to "know to a degree of
certainty who are operating boats out there."

The USCG WRITTEN proposal specifically and emphaticaly rejects the
idea of a new, separate ID. They want to require that you carry a
drivers license or other similar ID.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have been under the impression that the final and formal proposal
has yet to be presented. Where did you find a copy of the final
proposal?

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

I like it. Think about it .... 100 years ago nobody had a driver's
license or a social security card number. Many probably didn't even
have a birth certificate.

It gives cause to really think about where we are heading. Implanted
chips at birth is not out of the question.

Eisboch


Very, VERY bad idea....


I can think of one presidential candidate who would probably love the
idea. You know .... the one that wants to bonus every kid with 5k at
birth. How else will your "investment" be tracked?

Eisboch


Read a story in the NY Times about a month ago, about a British woman who's
been visiting here to teach for quite a few years. Suddenly, her visa was
revoked. Friends here have asked their congressman to look into it, and
they've had lawyers pound the government for answers, but absolutely nobody
can seem to find out what the problem is. She doesn't seem to be even
remotely connected with terrorism issues.

With a government like ours, this could be you or I mistakenly labeled as
who-knows-what. I wouldn't wanna be "chipped" under those circumstances.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:43:05 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:29:44 -0500, John H. penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:20:13 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:28:00 -0500, John H. penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).

Snipped

I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.

Wouldn't it be more prudent and cost effective to have chips implanted
at birth? No more lost children or adults, in case of emergency you
could be immediately located and identified, and the government would
know where you are at any given time. No more terrorism!

It would be even more prudent to completely do away with any form of ID? No
birth certificate, no diplomas, no paperwork of any kind which identifies a
person. You say you're Gene, I say I'm Gene, and no one can tell the
difference, except maybe your mom. But, that would assume she was given the
right child at the hospital, where no form of ID was used. Interesting.

You refute your own notion of the effectiveness of a national id
because even your own mother can't be sure *you* are *you*. A
photographic image would only serve to prove that you are not your
Mom, but, then, maybe you could be because you were both given to the
wrong parents. (Imagine how many bureaucrats you'd have to hire to
sort that out.)

No. A piece of paper is only a piece of paper. It may make the masses
*feel safe,* but, alas, it is *only* a piece of paper.

You and Chuck both seem to say nothing is necessary because it's not
perfection. I disagree with that attitude. ID's can be developed that have
much more than a picture imprinted thereon. But, those won't be perfect
either.

I disagree with the attitude that since perfection is unobtainable, we
should do nothing.