USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).

These programs tend to grow like Topsy. Once the "ID Card" gets the
camel nose under the tent, some bureaucrat on a 4-hour lunchbreak in
DC will get the bright idea..."Hey, if we require every boat to carry
a GPS transponder we'll need a new department with 50,000 employees
and 200 locations to track the movement of every boat on the water. I
can be appointed supervisor and get promoted from a GS(whatever) to a
grade where I'll make another $100k a year! We can require every
boater to buy a transponder, and put in a tax of $100 per boat per
year to support the monitoring!"

ID card?, maybe mandatory transponders?, perhaps eventually mandatory
GPS "chips" carried on the person 24/7 so everybody can be monitored
at all times wherever they go? If the 9-11 terrorists had a goal to
prfoundly change our way of life in America, it looks like they
succeeded. George Orwell was right, he just never anticipated the
government would be spying on us all by satellite.

At least it will be easy to know how the bad guys are. They will be
the folks
who don't carry the ID, don't use the transponder, and don't carry
their mandatory GPS personal tracking chip 24-7. Of course we won't
know *where* they are until it's too late.......so what's the real
difference between all of the potential government snooping and just
letting people live their lives with a modicum of privacy?

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).

Snipped

I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.

On Oct 31, 12:28 pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).
Snipped

I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.

If the price of fuel keeps going up it won't be difficult to spot the
bad guys, they'll be the only ones out there!

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:48:09 -0700, Capt John
wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:28 pm, John H. wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).
Snipped

I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.

If the price of fuel keeps going up it won't be difficult to spot the
bad guys, they'll be the only ones out there!

ROTFL!!!

On Oct 31, 9:28?am, John H. wrote:


I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.


There would be some practical applications. We have a strident but
influential voice in our community who keeps demanding laws that would
"put landlords in jail who rent to illegal immigrants!" As a landlord,
I can say there a couple of problems with his plan.....first there is
no exiting law that makes it a crime to rent shelter to a person based
on their immigration status and secondly there is no workable way to
sort out who is a legal resident and who is not. The illegals don't
volunteer the fact that they swam across the Rio Grande last week, and
citizens don't routinely carry any document that identifies them as
such. I know for a fact that I will find myself in deep dog doo if I
just summarily begin denying apartments to people simply because they
"look Hispanic". (There are *plenty* of existing laws that address
that!) There are illegal immigrants from Canada, Europe, etc....and
lots of legal Hispanic Americans.

Overall, I'm opposed to to asking people to carry general ID cards.
First you need to carry one, then you need to show it along with your
registration card to vote, then merchants begin demanding it for major
transactions, then pretty soon you need to show it to get on a bus,
cross a state border, buy an aspirin, etc.........

And odd aspect of the discussion, IMO, centers on the fact that so
many people who seem willing to form a militia and rise up against the
FEDGOV before consenting to federal registry of their firearms
apparently have very little difficulty with registering their persons.
You may not be one of those people, JohnH- but I have met a fair
number.

While a federal boater ID card doesn't seem that aggregious, it can be
a first step toward oppressive federal regulation.

"Going fishing this weekend, John?"

"Naw, dammit. Some government flunky lost my application for a 3-day
navigation permit. *******s cashed my check for the $50 processing
fee, however. Looks like I'll be back on the water for a weekend in
another 45 days, assuming they don't lose the paperwork again."

Wherever that is, I don't want to live there. :-)

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:58:37 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

secondly there is no workable way to
sort out who is a legal resident and who is not.

In a sense.

I don't know what you do, but when we rent, positive identification, a
credit check, valid bank account and positive work history are all
part of qualifying to rent one of ours.

While it dosen't keep one from renting to immigrants, legal or
otherwise, it cuts down on the possibility.

On Oct 31, 9:07?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:58:37 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
secondly there is no workable way to
sort out who is a legal resident and who is not.

In a sense.

I don't know what you do, but when we rent, positive identification, a
credit check, valid bank account and positive work history are all
part of qualifying to rent one of ours.

While it dosen't keep one from renting to immigrants, legal or
otherwise, it cuts down on the possibility.

We check ID, verify employment, and run a credit check as well.
It's possible to get a driver's license without being a citizen, most
of the illegals have a job of some kind, and it's pretty easy to
qualify for many types of credit. It would be tough for a guy who just
sneaked over the border last week to have enough stuff together, but
pretty easy for somebody who came across last year to have as many
credentials as a freshly graduated college student.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:10:33 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Oct 31, 9:07?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:58:37 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
secondly there is no workable way to
sort out who is a legal resident and who is not.

In a sense.

I don't know what you do, but when we rent, positive identification, a
credit check, valid bank account and positive work history are all
part of qualifying to rent one of ours.

While it dosen't keep one from renting to immigrants, legal or
otherwise, it cuts down on the possibility.

We check ID, verify employment, and run a credit check as well.
It's possible to get a driver's license without being a citizen, most
of the illegals have a job of some kind, and it's pretty easy to
qualify for many types of credit. It would be tough for a guy who just
sneaked over the border last week to have enough stuff together, but
pretty easy for somebody who came across last year to have as many
credentials as a freshly graduated college student.

Possible, but unlikely.

At least around here.

Good point though.

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:58:37 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Oct 31, 9:28?am, John H. wrote:


I'm a believer in a national ID card, whether it helps ID boaters or not.
Of course, many who are in favor of illegal immigration are opposed to
same.

Your rationale could easily be applied to boat or vehicle registration or
birth certificates.

Europeans don't leave home without their national ID. We should be doing
the same.


There would be some practical applications. We have a strident but
influential voice in our community who keeps demanding laws that would
"put landlords in jail who rent to illegal immigrants!" As a landlord,
I can say there a couple of problems with his plan.....first there is
no exiting law that makes it a crime to rent shelter to a person based
on their immigration status and secondly there is no workable way to
sort out who is a legal resident and who is not. The illegals don't
volunteer the fact that they swam across the Rio Grande last week, and
citizens don't routinely carry any document that identifies them as
such. I know for a fact that I will find myself in deep dog doo if I
just summarily begin denying apartments to people simply because they
"look Hispanic". (There are *plenty* of existing laws that address
that!) There are illegal immigrants from Canada, Europe, etc....and
lots of legal Hispanic Americans.


A national ID card would solve your landlord problem. I agree that
landlords should not rent to illegals.


Overall, I'm opposed to to asking people to carry general ID cards.
First you need to carry one, then you need to show it along with your
registration card to vote, then merchants begin demanding it for major
transactions, then pretty soon you need to show it to get on a bus,
cross a state border, buy an aspirin, etc.........

You could use that same rational with birth certificates.

And odd aspect of the discussion, IMO, centers on the fact that so
many people who seem willing to form a militia and rise up against the
FEDGOV before consenting to federal registry of their firearms
apparently have very little difficulty with registering their persons.
You may not be one of those people, JohnH- but I have met a fair
number.

I'm not in that number. The last time I bought a pistol I filled out the
appropriate paperwork. I didn't ask a lot of questions, and didn't mind
doing so. If I use the pistol to commit a crime and get ID'd because of it,
then so be it.

While a federal boater ID card doesn't seem that aggregious, it can be
a first step toward oppressive federal regulation.

So could a birth certificate.

"Going fishing this weekend, John?"

"Naw, dammit. Some government flunky lost my application for a 3-day
navigation permit. *******s cashed my check for the $50 processing
fee, however. Looks like I'll be back on the water for a weekend in
another 45 days, assuming they don't lose the paperwork again."

Wherever that is, I don't want to live there. :-)

Or...nope, I didn't have my birth certificate. Your arguments lean toward
the absurd. They seem to support the 'no ID' philosophy which allows anyone
to vote, whether a citizen or not. I don't buy it.

On Oct 31, 10:11?am, John H. wrote:


Or...nope, I didn't have my birth certificate. Your arguments lean toward
the absurd. They seem to support the 'no ID' philosophy which allows anyone
to vote, whether a citizen or not. I don't buy it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since there is no such thing as a "federal election," (citizens do not
directly elect any federal officials- except Senators and
Representatives from their individual states) there is no need for a
federal voter ID.

The smaller the government, the less of a threat it becomes to the
governed.Let the individual states take responsibiity for identifying
residents and issuing licenses for franchise and privileges. If State
X, for example, registeres everybody who can fog a mirror to vote the
solution is to tighten up procedures in that individual state- not
mandate a huge federal ID program. IMO.