On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:39:08 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Oct 31, 10:11?am, John H. wrote:


Or...nope, I didn't have my birth certificate. Your arguments lean toward
the absurd. They seem to support the 'no ID' philosophy which allows anyone
to vote, whether a citizen or not. I don't buy it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since there is no such thing as a "federal election," (citizens do not
directly elect any federal officials- except Senators and
Representatives from their individual states) there is no need for a
federal voter ID.

The smaller the government, the less of a threat it becomes to the
governed.Let the individual states take responsibiity for identifying
residents and issuing licenses for franchise and privileges. If State
X, for example, registeres everybody who can fog a mirror to vote the
solution is to tighten up procedures in that individual state- not
mandate a huge federal ID program. IMO.


Well, we differ in opinions. Wonder why there was so much vote recounting
in Florida? Just stupidity?

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:11?am, John H. wrote:

Or...nope, I didn't have my birth certificate. Your arguments lean toward
the absurd. They seem to support the 'no ID' philosophy which allows anyone
to vote, whether a citizen or not. I don't buy it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since there is no such thing as a "federal election," (citizens do not
directly elect any federal officials- except Senators and
Representatives from their individual states) there is no need for a
federal voter ID.

Another argument to keep the Electoral College.

The smaller the government, the less of a threat it becomes to the
governed.Let the individual states take responsibiity for identifying
residents and issuing licenses for franchise and privileges. If State
X, for example, registeres everybody who can fog a mirror to vote the
solution is to tighten up procedures in that individual state- not
mandate a huge federal ID program. IMO.

Enforce the 10th Amendment.

On Oct 31, 11:52?am, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:39:08 -0700, Chuck Gould





wrote:
On Oct 31, 10:11?am, John H. wrote:

Or...nope, I didn't have my birth certificate. Your arguments lean toward
the absurd. They seem to support the 'no ID' philosophy which allows anyone
to vote, whether a citizen or not. I don't buy it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since there is no such thing as a "federal election," (citizens do not
directly elect any federal officials- except Senators and
Representatives from their individual states) there is no need for a
federal voter ID.

The smaller the government, the less of a threat it becomes to the
governed.

You mean like a one man dictatorship or a monarchy?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, small also implies a limitation of power as well as the number of
people participating in the process of governing. Absolute
governments, such as a dictatorship or a non-constitutional monarchy
are enormous in their intrusion and power.

We had it about right during the Constitutional convention. We fairly
well perfected it with the Bill of Rights. It's gone gradually all to
heck since then. :-)

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters.

Old news - in fact, I posted something about this a couple of months
ago.

This is very problematic both in terms of concept and execution.

Ain't gonna happen.

On Oct 31, 8:53?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters.

Old news - in fact, I posted something about this a couple of months
ago.


You scooped USA Today by a couple of months? Good job. :-)

This is very problematic both in terms of concept and execution.

Ain't gonna happen.

Don't be so sure. There are calls for a "national ID card" from a
number of sectors right now. Lots of people want to know just who the
"real" Americans are.

Lage vessels are already required to carry transponders by the A.I.S.
system. Extending that to all vessels wouldn't be an entirely
ridiculous possibility.

On 31 Oct 2007 16:03:01 -0700, Chuck Gould penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
|
|Lage vessels are already required to carry transponders by the A.I.S.
|system. Extending that to all vessels wouldn't be an entirely
|ridiculous possibility.

Except in busy areas the radar screen would look like a huge blob of
white.... unless they split the area up into a gazillion sectors.

It would be as big a mess as ATC.... both which they would probably
privatize out to the lowest bidding county.....

go figure.....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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On 31 Oct 2007 16:03:01 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Oct 31, 8:53?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0700, Chuck Gould

wrote:
USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters.

Old news - in fact, I posted something about this a couple of months
ago.


You scooped USA Today by a couple of months? Good job. :-)

Actually, yes.

So did you in fact - in 2005.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...eb23c907f2d3f2



This is very problematic both in terms of concept and execution.

Ain't gonna happen.

Don't be so sure. There are calls for a "national ID card" from a
number of sectors right now. Lots of people want to know just who the
"real" Americans are.

Lage vessels are already required to carry transponders by the A.I.S.
system. Extending that to all vessels wouldn't be an entirely
ridiculous possibility.

That's all fine and good - you are talking about a huge number of
small boats that aren't even efficiently controlled by state statute
never mind Federal.

A perfect example was the Newport Bridge fiasco. DHS, USCG and Navy
closed off the Newport Bridge to any boat within 500 yards of any
piling and/or abutment. No exceptions.

When it was pointed out that the narrows is only 1,200 yards wide and
that any and all traffic would be prevented from entering or exiting
Narragansett Bay, it kind of went away.

Proposals like a ID card or transponders isn't workable for any number
of reasons including enforcement. They can't enforce the rules now as
they discovered with the Newport Bridge - how the hell are they going
to enforce universal ID or get the money for computer support for
transponders?

And think of the technical challenge with transponders. On any given
summer day, there are thousands of boats with easy access to power
plants, airport runways, bridges, shipping - you name it.

The reasonable approach would be to allow a stop and check ID - which
would be a state driver's license or similar boating license.

Any other approach is just plain silly.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

The reasonable approach would be to allow a stop and check ID - which
would be a state driver's license or similar boating license.

Any other approach is just plain silly.

In other words, count on it happening.

On 31 Oct 2007 16:03:01 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

Lage vessels are already required to carry transponders by the A.I.S.
system. Extending that to all vessels wouldn't be an entirely
ridiculous possibility.

It would be easy but I don't think people will put up with it, imagine
something like prohibition or the 55 mph speed limit where over 50% of
the population became law breakers.

On Oct 31, 9:17 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
USA Today reports this morning that Homeland Security has ordered one
of its divisions, (the USCG) to define a plan to positively identify
boaters. The rationale is that small boats could be loaded with
explosives and used to
blow up military or commercial vessels, ala USS Cole. Until the USCG
presents its plan we don't know the details, but possible requirements
*could* include, at a minimum, carrying a national Boater ID card.
(Something the Administration seems to favor, based on its proposals
in several areas).

These programs tend to grow like Topsy. Once the "ID Card" gets the
camel nose under the tent, some bureaucrat on a 4-hour lunchbreak in
DC will get the bright idea..."Hey, if we require every boat to carry
a GPS transponder we'll need a new department with 50,000 employees
and 200 locations to track the movement of every boat on the water. I
can be appointed supervisor and get promoted from a GS(whatever) to a
grade where I'll make another $100k a year! We can require every
boater to buy a transponder, and put in a tax of $100 per boat per
year to support the monitoring!"

ID card?, maybe mandatory transponders?, perhaps eventually mandatory
GPS "chips" carried on the person 24/7 so everybody can be monitored
at all times wherever they go? If the 9-11 terrorists had a goal to
prfoundly change our way of life in America, it looks like they
succeeded. George Orwell was right, he just never anticipated the
government would be spying on us all by satellite.

At least it will be easy to know how the bad guys are. They will be
the folks
who don't carry the ID, don't use the transponder, and don't carry
their mandatory GPS personal tracking chip 24-7. Of course we won't
know *where* they are until it's too late.......so what's the real
difference between all of the potential government snooping and just
letting people live their lives with a modicum of privacy?

sounds to me like the old "chip-under-the-skin" deal.

1984?