Best cleaner for river slime
 

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates too.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast. The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs
ago). I did an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a
complete detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the
complete Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino
Bros. 3 step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as
glass. While the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was
really interested is how well it would last after 6 months, since I
would always wax my car in the spring and fall. In the fall, the
Zaino still had large beads of water on the car, and when I clayed
the car, their was no pollution residual common off on the clay. The
Mequiars car was still water beading, but the beads were smaller, and
it the finish definitely had rough feel. When I clayed the car, I
could see where the air pollution had pitted the finish, and I was
getting the pollution residual on the clay. I also noticed that the
Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor
and in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other
people will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing
is the owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call
up with a question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think
he is semi retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have
technical questions about the product. It really does apply
differently than most waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax
obviously isn't working on your water line gunk, why don't you try it
after you clean off it with "Off and On"? If you do, you will need
to let us know next fall if it did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. ;) The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.


I wonder if JimH is going to say Bull**** about me giving away the
Mequiars? ;)

Best cleaner for river slime
 

BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates too.

Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it went
on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about Zaino
and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates
too.

Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it went
on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about Zaino
and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.




I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin


Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:35:56 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?

Because it was still dark outside?
Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. ;) The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

It works well on dog poop stains on the carpet also



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:37:05 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

As far as wax, I give the hull a good coating of high quality boat wax before the
spring launch, and it doesn't seem to help protect the boat. This fresh water river

must have some nasty chemicals in it. I certainly wouldn't go in this water to try
and
clean the boat during the season. I have tried various products containing bleach,
oxalic acid, etc. and haven't found an effective cleaner yet. I am still wondering
if
using these acid products full strength might do damage to the fiberglass, so maybe
they should be diluted (how much?). If they use muriatic acid to etch concrete,
that
sounds scary. I will check out the 'on and off' product. I eventually got most of
the
stain off using a heavy duty liquid cleaner, but it took a lot of rubbing. I have
used
most of the commercial products mentioned in this thread, with not much luck.

Sherwin

I use an acid based cleaner from WalMart called, surprisingly enough,
Hull Cleaner that they sell in the boating/fishing section. I am sure
that it is just some basic acid that you can get cheaper in some other
form, but a quart container lasts me through at least 10 cleanings. I
boat in the Ohio River and if left in even over night there is a brown
to black stain that will not come off with any soap I have tried. With
this stuff I first wash with soap, then just sponge this stuff on
sparingly with a long handled cleaner with a cloth head. I spray some
around the outdrive and other hard to get too areas. Wait 10 seconds
or so and spray it off and the boat is white again. It doesn't matter
whether the boat was left in overnight or for 3 weeks, the stain comes
off just as quickly. I would bet that this stuff eats off the wax the
first time I use it and I only wax once a season. I have used it for
several years and see absolutely no impact on the fiberglass. I do NOT
have bottom paint on the boat, though.

Dave Hall

Best cleaner for river slime
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates
too.

Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it
went on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about
Zaino and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.




I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.

Well if you are I owe you a beer and dinner.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:35:56 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. ;) The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

It works well on dog poop stains on the carpet also.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

HK wrote:



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water beading,
it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water, and how the
car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the size of the
water droplets. The less surface tension on the car finish, the less it
will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the larger the water
droplets will be before their molecules pull apart. If the car finish
is pitted the surface tension of the car finish will be so strong it
will not allow the water to bead at all or the beads will be smaller.

Now I am going to ask you to either contribute to the discussion or butt
out of the discussion. It makes you look silly to comment on subjects
that are not familiar with. I don't want to have to ask you again.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

Dave Hall wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:37:05 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

As far as wax, I give the hull a good coating of high quality boat wax before the
spring launch, and it doesn't seem to help protect the boat. This fresh water river

must have some nasty chemicals in it. I certainly wouldn't go in this water to try
and
clean the boat during the season. I have tried various products containing bleach,
oxalic acid, etc. and haven't found an effective cleaner yet. I am still wondering
if
using these acid products full strength might do damage to the fiberglass, so maybe
they should be diluted (how much?). If they use muriatic acid to etch concrete,
that
sounds scary. I will check out the 'on and off' product. I eventually got most of
the
stain off using a heavy duty liquid cleaner, but it took a lot of rubbing. I have
used
most of the commercial products mentioned in this thread, with not much luck.

Sherwin

I use an acid based cleaner from WalMart called, surprisingly enough,
Hull Cleaner that they sell in the boating/fishing section. I am sure
that it is just some basic acid that you can get cheaper in some other
form, but a quart container lasts me through at least 10 cleanings. I
boat in the Ohio River and if left in even over night there is a brown
to black stain that will not come off with any soap I have tried. With
this stuff I first wash with soap, then just sponge this stuff on
sparingly with a long handled cleaner with a cloth head. I spray some
around the outdrive and other hard to get too areas. Wait 10 seconds
or so and spray it off and the boat is white again. It doesn't matter
whether the boat was left in overnight or for 3 weeks, the stain comes
off just as quickly. I would bet that this stuff eats off the wax the
first time I use it and I only wax once a season. I have used it for
several years and see absolutely no impact on the fiberglass. I do NOT
have bottom paint on the boat, though.

Dave Hall

That is exactly how Off and On works. Off and On sells for about
$15/quart.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:


sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested
is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my
car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads
of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on
the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the
2nd
time i applied the finish.



"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water beading,
it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water, and how the
car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the size of the
water droplets. The less surface tension on the car finish, the less it
will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the larger the water
droplets will be before their molecules pull apart. If the car finish
is pitted the surface tension of the car finish will be so strong it
will not allow the water to bead at all or the beads will be smaller.

Now I am going to ask you to either contribute to the discussion or butt
out of the discussion. It makes you look silly to comment on subjects
that are not familiar with. I don't want to have to ask you again.


My contribution: if you are going to rewrite something you find on
wikipedia, Reggie, try to do a better job of it, and if you make it back
here in another life, pay attention when your high school physics
teacher discusses hydrophobic interaction.

Have a nice day. Or not.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water
beading, it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water,
and how the car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the
size of the water droplets. The less surface tension on the car
finish, the less it will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the
larger the water droplets will be before their molecules pull apart.
If the car finish is pitted the surface tension of the car finish will
be so strong it will not allow the water to bead at all or the beads
will be smaller.

Now I am going to ask you to either contribute to the discussion or
butt out of the discussion. It makes you look silly to comment on
subjects that are not familiar with. I don't want to have to ask you
again.


My contribution: if you are going to rewrite something you find on
wikipedia, Reggie, try to do a better job of it, and if you make it back
here in another life, pay attention when your high school physics
teacher discusses hydrophobic interaction.

Have a nice day. Or not.

Harry,
I asked you not to respond if you can not contribute something to the
discussion. Now stop it.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
HK wrote:



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water beading, it
has some thing to do with surface tension of the water, and how the car
finish holds onto the water molecules determining the size of the water
droplets. The less surface tension on the car finish, the less it will
holds onto the water molecules and thus, the larger the water droplets
will be before their molecules pull apart. If the car finish is pitted
the surface tension of the car finish will be so strong it will not allow
the water to bead at all or the beads will be smaller.



Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets, rather
than beads.

Eisboch

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water
beading, it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water,
and how the car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the
size of the water droplets. The less surface tension on the car
finish, the less it will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the
larger the water droplets will be before their molecules pull apart.
If the car finish is pitted the surface tension of the car finish
will be so strong it will not allow the water to bead at all or the
beads will be smaller.

Now I am going to ask you to either contribute to the discussion or
butt out of the discussion. It makes you look silly to comment on
subjects that are not familiar with. I don't want to have to ask you
again.


My contribution: if you are going to rewrite something you find on
wikipedia, Reggie, try to do a better job of it, and if you make it
back here in another life, pay attention when your high school physics
teacher discusses hydrophobic interaction.

Have a nice day. Or not.

Harry,
I asked you not to respond if you can not contribute something to the
discussion. Now stop it.



Hydrophobic interaction.

Got it?

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Eisboch wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested
is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my
car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads
of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on
the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the
2nd
time i applied the finish.


"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch



Eisbock,

I had heard that also, but considering all (or at least all of the major
mfg'ers that I know of) waxes and polishes result in water beading, and
the car stops beading when the sacrificial wax is pitted, how does one
protect their car's finish without getting water beading?

The water beading question reminds me of the physic problem concerning
do you get wetter running in the rain or walking in the rain.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
HK wrote:


"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water beading, it
has some thing to do with surface tension of the water, and how the car
finish holds onto the water molecules determining the size of the water
droplets. The less surface tension on the car finish, the less it will
holds onto the water molecules and thus, the larger the water droplets
will be before their molecules pull apart. If the car finish is pitted
the surface tension of the car finish will be so strong it will not allow
the water to bead at all or the beads will be smaller.



Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets, rather
than beads.

Eisboch




I don't believe I've spent two seconds of my life worrying about the
size of the water beads on my cars.

Sometimes the beads are larger than they are at other times.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a
whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone
recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was
considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago).
I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino
Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really
interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax
my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large
beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish
definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual
on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better
the 2nd
time i applied the finish.


"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on
a painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax
and paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface.
The wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch


Eisbock,

I had heard that also, but considering all (or at least all of the major
mfg'ers that I know of) waxes and polishes result in water beading, and
the car stops beading when the sacrificial wax is pitted, how does one
protect their car's finish without getting water beading?

The water beading question reminds me of the physic problem concerning
do you get wetter running in the rain or walking in the rain.



Waterbeading seems to be a real issue for you.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message . ..
HK wrote:


"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water
beading, it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water,
and how the car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the
size of the water droplets. The less surface tension on the car
finish, the less it will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the
larger the water droplets will be before their molecules pull apart.
If the car finish is pitted the surface tension of the car finish
will be so strong it will not allow the water to bead at all or the
beads will be smaller.



Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets,
rather than beads.

Eisboch



I don't believe I've spent two seconds of my life worrying about the
size of the water beads on my cars.

Sometimes the beads are larger than they are at other times.

Harry,
Didn't I ask you to stop responding to my posts?

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

"HK" wrote in message
...


I don't believe I've spent two seconds of my life worrying about the size
of the water beads on my cars.

Sometimes the beads are larger than they are at other times.

I don't either on my daily driver or the boat. I am careful though on the
GTO and the Porsche, making sure they are dry after washing.

Eisboch

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
HK wrote:


"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water beading, it
has some thing to do with surface tension of the water, and how the car
finish holds onto the water molecules determining the size of the water
droplets. The less surface tension on the car finish, the less it will
holds onto the water molecules and thus, the larger the water droplets
will be before their molecules pull apart. If the car finish is pitted
the surface tension of the car finish will be so strong it will not allow
the water to bead at all or the beads will be smaller.



Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets, rather
than beads.

Eisboch


Eisboch,
As I said, I am my knowledge of physics is poor at best. I am curios
why a car's finish that is as smooth as glass beads and a car that has
not been washed or waxed in years the water always sheets.

I am not familiar with any wax or polish that does not bead while just
applied and starts to sheet as the surfaced is pitted. Is there one you
find to be better than others?

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
...

I don't believe I've spent two seconds of my life worrying about the size
of the water beads on my cars.

Sometimes the beads are larger than they are at other times.

I don't either on my daily driver or the boat. I am careful though on the
GTO and the Porsche, making sure they are dry after washing.

Eisboch




I also make sure my cars are dry after I wash them.

Funny thing...I have a cover for my new Parker. I wash out the boat
after using it and when it dries off, I put the cover on. Guy at the
boatyard says to me, why are you covering your boat? Gave me the
opportunity to say, "To keep the water off it."

I guess I could have said, "To keep the dirt and UV off it," but...nah.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message . ..
HK wrote:


"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water
beading, it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water,
and how the car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the
size of the water droplets. The less surface tension on the car
finish, the less it will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the
larger the water droplets will be before their molecules pull apart.
If the car finish is pitted the surface tension of the car finish
will be so strong it will not allow the water to bead at all or the
beads will be smaller.



Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets,
rather than beads.

Eisboch
edit:

Eisboch,
As I said, my knowledge of physics is poor at best. I am curious
why a car's finish that is as smooth as glass has water beads and a
car that has
not been washed or waxed in years the water always sheets.

I am not familiar with any wax or polish that does not bead just after
it is
applied and starts to sheet as the surfaced is pitted.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:11:22 -0400, HK wrote:

I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.

That's my recollection also. I'd never heard of it before. Does it
contain silicone?

Best cleaner for river slime
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:11:22 -0400, HK wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates
too.

Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it went
on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about Zaino
and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.




I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.

Perhaps Reggie followed your advice. That was much nicer than blasting you
for offering it.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:02 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

That is exactly how Off and On works.

Acid is acid.

Sno Bowl is the same stuff only cheaper.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:35:56 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?

Because it was still dark outside?
Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. ;) The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

It works well on dog poop stains on the carpet also



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Dog poop beads...??

Best cleaner for river slime
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:02 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

That is exactly how Off and On works.

Acid is acid.

Sno Bowl is the same stuff only cheaper.

Wayne,

That is what I like about rec.boats, unlike some in here, I don't know
it all, and am always learning something. Thanks.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:44:39 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets, rather
than beads.

That was my experience wet sanding the bottom of my old racing
sailboat. When the water started to hang on the bottom in smooth
sheets, the surface was just about right.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:11:22 -0400, HK wrote:

I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.

That's my recollection also. I'd never heard of it before. Does it
contain silicone?

Wayne,
They say it is the most sophisticated system of synthetic polymeric
system available today. Great marketing, but doesn't really say
anything, I think most of today's polishes are synthetic polymers.

I sent them a request for the MSDS to see what it really is.

Harry,
Since I owe you dinner and a beer, and I won't be coming up to MD soon,
send me your address so I can send your money.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:44:39 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Those that are familiar with cleaning optics or glass know that an
indication that the surface is truly clean is that the water sheets, rather
than beads.

That was my experience wet sanding the bottom of my old racing
sailboat. When the water started to hang on the bottom in smooth
sheets, the surface was just about right.

I sure am glad I said I don't know physics, I do know Zaino is one hell
of polish.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?

I would assume that the sheeting action is related to the fact that
there isn't anything for the water to cling to.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:18:05 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates
too.

Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it
went on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about
Zaino and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.




I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.

Well if you are I owe you a beer and dinner.

I'd pay to be there for that.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:21:59 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:02 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

That is exactly how Off and On works.

Acid is acid.

Sno Bowl is the same stuff only cheaper.

I'm going to try that stuff on that Chris Craft hull I have that is
stained.

Cheap enough to experiment with.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:18:05 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.
Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates
too.
Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it
went on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about
Zaino and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.



I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.
Well if you are I owe you a beer and dinner.

I'd pay to be there for that.


You can go in my place.

Are you still in Deliverance-ville?

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?



Hydrophobic interaction.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:18:05 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.
Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap
chocolates too.
Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago,
about what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG
threads it went on for months. I wish I could remember who made
the post about Zaino and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer
and dinner.



I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second
who mentioned the virtues of Zaino.
Well if you are I owe you a beer and dinner.

I'd pay to be there for that.


You can go in my place.

Are you still in Deliverance-ville?

I was really looking forward to finally meeting you.

Best Wax for boats and cars.
 

HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water
on a painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax
very regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying
glasses, focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through
the wax and paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the
surface. The wax is sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?



Hydrophobic interaction.

Harry,

There is no doubt about it, you are much smarter than I am. I am
curious why a really smart guy like yourself, living in New Haven, with
some of the best schools in the country within 150 miles, would have to
slum it and go to a 4th tier school such as University of Kansas?

You did know that the really good schools provide scholarships and
grants for the overachievers. My high school counselors tried to make
sure all the college bound students knew all the options they had.

Did I tell you my Dad was on full scholarship and graduated from Yale
(courtesy of the war dept.) and my son got a work study program at
Columbia. I try not to talk about myself, so i won't tell you where I
went to school.

Best cleaner for river slime
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:18:05 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.
Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates
too.
Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it
went on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about
Zaino and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.



I'm not sure, but I think I was the first one or maybe the second who
mentioned the virtues of Zaino.
Well if you are I owe you a beer and dinner.

I'd pay to be there for that.

I actually would enjoy meeting Harry, I think it would be fun.