Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less static.

Right?

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

On Oct 23, 8:29?am, HK wrote:
So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less static.

Right?

VHF vs. Satellite phones: VHF can send a general broadcast, such as a
pan pan or a mayday. Satellite phones need to know what number to dial
in order to reach some boat across the harbor. One of the primary
functions of the radio is to enable a boater to call for help in an
emergency or respond to a call for help from another boat- removing
the general broadcast aspect from communications capability defeats
that function.

SSB: SSB signals carry a very long way. Wouldn't the airwaves become
so jammed as to be entirely unworkable in busy areas? As it is now
with VHF, especially set on "low", you can be using a frequency in one
location and somebody else can use the same frequency 15 or 20 miles
away and you won't interfere with one another. I could be wong, but I
think there are specific reasons why VHF is the preferred technology
for short range transmissions in crowded areas while SSB is
more popular for vessels well offshore and requiring extended range.

There's no reason you couldn't put a satellite phone on your Parker
and use that *instead* of a VHF for a lot of communications needs.

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Oct 23, 8:29?am, HK wrote:
So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less static.

Right?

VHF vs. Satellite phones: VHF can send a general broadcast, such as a
pan pan or a mayday. Satellite phones need to know what number to dial
in order to reach some boat across the harbor. One of the primary
functions of the radio is to enable a boater to call for help in an
emergency or respond to a call for help from another boat- removing
the general broadcast aspect from communications capability defeats
that function.

SSB: SSB signals carry a very long way. Wouldn't the airwaves become
so jammed as to be entirely unworkable in busy areas? As it is now
with VHF, especially set on "low", you can be using a frequency in one
location and somebody else can use the same frequency 15 or 20 miles
away and you won't interfere with one another. I could be wong, but I
think there are specific reasons why VHF is the preferred technology
for short range transmissions in crowded areas while SSB is
more popular for vessels well offshore and requiring extended range.

There's no reason you couldn't put a satellite phone on your Parker
and use that *instead* of a VHF for a lot of communications needs.



My error. I meant to type ... NOT suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite, just for the reasons you mentioned.

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:52:35 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

SSB: SSB signals carry a very long way. Wouldn't the airwaves become
so jammed as to be entirely unworkable in busy areas?

Yes, that is exactly why the marine VHF band was created back in the
70s. The old HF frequencies, where SSB now lives, had become an
abomination with distant stations and local traffic jumbled together.

In my opinion VHF does exactly what it was supposed to do: Provide
reliable, static free, local communications. For talking with shore
stations, or extended chat with specific individuals, cell phones are
the way to go. Offshore you've got Iridium sat phones and SSB.

The key to solid VHF range and reliability is a good (usually large)
antenna, and low loss coax properly installed.

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..

So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less
static.

Right?


It would seem that the next logical evolution for VHF communications is for
it to go to a totally digital format, rather than the analog system it
remains. Digital will allow more available bandwidth for each frequency,
would open up the possibility of full duplex communications and would
provide clearer communications.

Eisboch

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..
So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less
static.
Right?


It would seem that the next logical evolution for VHF communications is for
it to go to a totally digital format, rather than the analog system it
remains. Digital will allow more available bandwidth for each frequency,
would open up the possibility of full duplex communications and would
provide clearer communications.

Eisboch



Aha! And I mis-typed above. I am not suggesting going to SSB or satellite.

I like the idea of full duplex VHF.

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

On Oct 23, 11:52 am, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Oct 23, 8:29?am, HK wrote:

So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less static.

Right?

VHF vs. Satellite phones: VHF can send a general broadcast, such as a
pan pan or a mayday. Satellite phones need to know what number to dial
in order to reach some boat across the harbor. One of the primary
functions of the radio is to enable a boater to call for help in an
emergency or respond to a call for help from another boat- removing
the general broadcast aspect from communications capability defeats
that function.

SSB: SSB signals carry a very long way. Wouldn't the airwaves become
so jammed as to be entirely unworkable in busy areas? As it is now
with VHF, especially set on "low", you can be using a frequency in one
location and somebody else can use the same frequency 15 or 20 miles
away and you won't interfere with one another. I could be wong, but I
think there are specific reasons why VHF is the preferred technology
for short range transmissions in crowded areas while SSB is
more popular for vessels well offshore and requiring extended range.

There's no reason you couldn't put a satellite phone on your Parker
and use that *instead* of a VHF for a lot of communications needs.

As Chuck said, a VHF is the way to go. When your in trouble, and need
help now, sending out a distress signal on a VHF goes out to everyone.
A phone call on a cell phone, may not get through if your out of
range, and it's only going out to one person. A SAT phone, their are
some bad dead spots with SAT phones, if your in one, and need help,
your screwed. The calls are also to only one person. Calling the Coast
Guard, which might be 10 miles away doesn't make much sense if their
are other boaters near by that can be called for help. If you're on a
phone, how do you relay information to a rescue boat or helecopter, do
you know if they have a phone board? How about their phone number.

SSB, they frequently do not work very well over short distances. You
might be able to talk to someone 50 miles away, but have trouble
reaching someone half a mile away. Their range also is better at night
than during the day, and atmospheric conditions can also affect them.
Then their is the cost, they run around $1500 for the radio, that
probably doesn't include a coupler, another $300 or so, plus the
antenna, $200 to $300 more. The shortest antenna I've ever seen for an
SSB is about 17 to 18 feet long, not the sort of thing you want to
mount on the runabout. And most draw a lot more power than a VHF, low
battery power just always seems to be the problem or part of it, so
you probably won't be able to use it anyway. A decent VHF can be had
for about $150 for an average radio, antennes run from $50 for a small
one to say $125 for a good 8 foot antenna. For under $300 your all set
up with a VHF, that's not much to pay for your safety, top of the line
is around $650. A basic SSB should run you $2000 or more, if your boat
can handle it. So your talking about a SSB setup costing around 7
times as much.

Remember, we're talking about a boat here, not a car. If your car
catches on fire just pull over, get out, and worst case, if your in
the middle of nowhere at night, you get to watch your car burn while
waiting for help, maybe you get wet from the rain or cold from the
wind. Now have the same thing happen to you in a boat, and it can
easily cost you your life.

Relying on a phone, rather than a VHF for communication, is a sure way
to get yourself in trouble.

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

In article ,
HK wrote:

So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

So just go ahead, with the LRC you are free to do so:
Inmarsat-C, MF/HF with SSB and DSC.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less static.

MF/HF generally has more static than VHF.
And yes, HF will get you across thousands of kilometres.
But: Why distribute chat over thousands of kilometres if not necessary?

And if you want a phone, get one - eg Iridium.

HTH

Marc

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

On Oct 23, 12:17 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"HK" wrote in message

. ..



So, I was thinking, what with all the technological advances in
communications, why are we still stuck with VHF radios on our boats?
The limitations of VHF radio are obvious to all of us, so there's no
need to repeat them here. And I'm suggesting a move up to SSB or
satellite telephones.

Surely, there is a better way to handle boat to boat or boat to shore
communciations, with features like duplex, much greater range, less
static.

Right?

It would seem that the next logical evolution for VHF communications is for
it to go to a totally digital format, rather than the analog system it
remains. Digital will allow more available bandwidth for each frequency,
would open up the possibility of full duplex communications and would
provide clearer communications.

Eisboch

There ya go! DSL for VHF!

Boat Radios, or Why I am not an Engineer
 

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:20:37 -0400, HK wrote:

I like the idea of full duplex VHF.

You can get it with commercial quality equipment (spelled mucho
dinero).