Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:46:49 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:53:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Metz antennas are crap - always have been, always will be.

I always used them on all of my old sailboats. On top of a 50 to 80
ft mast with a run of low loss coax they seem to perform quite well.

Well, now it's two for Metz and one against.

I need more votes!

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:07:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire

You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Is there a 'proper' manner of installing a new connector? Is there a
'proper' type of new connector to install?

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire

You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.


When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator immediately, but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:45:49 -0400, HK wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:15:24 -0400, HK wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
oups.com...
Proof that this NG does some good for boaters and is not all
politics. I face the same issue in that I have an 8' antenna on my
Tolman but recently installed a bimini and have not been sure of what
to do about the antenna. Harry says his 3' antenna works fine and
clears the bimini............

I installed a 3' antenna and Icom radio on the console of a Dauntless Whaler
I had. No bimini, but I didn't want a long antenna in the way while fishing
and the short, stainless whip could be bent over under the console grab
rail, out of the way.

It worked, but didn't have nearly the range of an 8 footer mounted higher up
on a boat. As for 10 mile range? No way on mine. Maybe two at best.

Eisboch



Mine is mounted on a vertical rail on the side of my center console.
When up, it just clears the underneath of the bimini, and the bimini
clears the top of my head by at least six to eight inches, so I am
guessing the tip of the antenna is somewhere close to 7' off the deck of
the boat. It seems to work well for me, although I rarely use VHF, since
almost everyone is on cell, even the guys I chat with who are fishing on
their boats out on the bay.

Do you have this radio: IC-M604 ?

I think I like the Metz Manta 6 stainless whip antenna. It can easily be
mounted to the console.


No, I thought the IC-M504 was expensive enough. Bought all my
electronics but the fishfinder from BOE in Annapolis. Good local prices.

Harry, What's BOE? Were they cheaper than $299 for that unit?

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:41:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:50:08 -0500, John H.
wrote:

PS. What would you recommend in the $200-$250 range?

It's really hard to go wrong with an ICOM radio. They are right up
there with Furuno for reliable equipment in my book.

I'm leaning towards the Icom IC-M422 VHF Marine Transceiver. I can't see
any big advantages offered by the more expensive models, given that this
will not be an 'off shore' boat!

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:32:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:09:13 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
. ..

Sometimes people with some knowledge can confuse the issue for those
with less than perfect knowledge.

I'm as guilty of that as anybody.

Me too, plus my memory is getting bad. Some folks focus on politics. I
am more of a technology nerd, but with a fading level of competence.

Heh - I'm right with you on that one.

I used to be able to rattle stuff off as quick as I could talk - after
a few, well more than a 'few", years away from the radio and building
"stuff", the more I seem to need refresher on.

For example, I fired up the Collins S-line the other night just to
hand out some Qs for a state CW contest that was going on and I had to
look up how to load the transmitter properly.

Used to do that in my sleep. :)

Tom, I didn't realize Shakespeare made a stainless whip antenna. Now the
antenna choice is narrowed to either the 5242A or the 5247A.

http://tinyurl.com/yuqaux

As they're both the same price, I'd guess the '47 would be the way to go
unless I'm missing something.

Thoughts?

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.


When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator immediately, but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!

That would be one hell of a bad day. So are you going to cut and
install a new connection? ;)

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

HK wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:07:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct
way to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.
The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Is there a 'proper' manner of installing a new connector? Is there a
'proper' type of new connector to install?


Most antenna kits come with an instruction sheet. The instructions
describe in words and drawings how to attach the connector. Only minor
soldering skills are required.

Well I knew this would make for an interesting discussion. I went
online to see what Shakespeare is doing today. 10 yrs ago, they said
"DO NOT CUT CABLE". Today, they provide instructions and a connection,
but say

This antenna will read “open circuit”
when tested with an ohm meter or
continuity tester.
The 50-ohm coaxial cable should
remain at least 3 feet in length,
measured from the point where the
cable exits the antenna.
For installations where the cable
exits through the bottom center of
the antenna’s ferrule, replace the
grommet at the exit hole in the ferrule
with the supplied Grommet Plug.
Connect the antenna to your transceiver with RG-8/X lowloss
coax cable (supplied) and install the PL-259 connector
(supplied). Instructions for connector installation are included
with the connector.


I found a site that showed in more detail than anyone would want, how to
install a PL-259 Connector.

http://www.seed-solutions.com/gregor...SolderCoax.htm

JohnH, enjoy, you have Shakespeare blessing. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T
BUY A METZ.

;)

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..



I don't worry about that, as I don't have a boat powered by either an I/O
or an eTec. :}


In the interest of your boating safety, may I suggest this as a backup to
your cell phone?

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/phone.html

Eisboch



I use that on our boat, but had to buy a special spool to retrieve the
line when coming back to the marina.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:29:23 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.


When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator immediately, but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!

That would be one hell of a bad day. So are you going to cut and
install a new connection? ;)





I'm going to see if I can get Shakespeare to make me about a 2 meter cable.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:40:59 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

HK wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:07:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct
way to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.
The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Is there a 'proper' manner of installing a new connector? Is there a
'proper' type of new connector to install?


Most antenna kits come with an instruction sheet. The instructions
describe in words and drawings how to attach the connector. Only minor
soldering skills are required.

Well I knew this would make for an interesting discussion. I went
online to see what Shakespeare is doing today. 10 yrs ago, they said
"DO NOT CUT CABLE". Today, they provide instructions and a connection,
but say

This antenna will read “open circuit”
when tested with an ohm meter or
continuity tester.
The 50-ohm coaxial cable should
remain at least 3 feet in length,
measured from the point where the
cable exits the antenna.
For installations where the cable
exits through the bottom center of
the antenna’s ferrule, replace the
grommet at the exit hole in the ferrule
with the supplied Grommet Plug.
Connect the antenna to your transceiver with RG-8/X lowloss
coax cable (supplied) and install the PL-259 connector
(supplied). Instructions for connector installation are included
with the connector.


I found a site that showed in more detail than anyone would want, how to
install a PL-259 Connector.

http://www.seed-solutions.com/gregor...SolderCoax.htm

JohnH, enjoy, you have Shakespeare blessing. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T
BUY A METZ.

;)


No, I'm not buying a Metz. That last paragraph sounded like something
written by Shortwave himself!

Thanks!

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:06:49 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:29:23 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct
way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new
connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only
know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.


When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on
your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where
you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator immediately,
but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear
your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange
throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy
spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!

That would be one hell of a bad day. So are you going to cut and
install a new connection? ;)





I'm going to see if I can get Shakespeare to make me about a 2 meter
cable.

Why not wait to see how much room you have to tuck the excess cable into
until you receive your boat? You may have plenty of room . I certainly
did on our 20 foot runabout.


I had the coil on a Whaler CC. I didn't like it. If it costs a few more
bucks for a special cable, it will be worth it.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:34:25 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:06:49 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:29:23 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct
way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the
proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new
connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my
helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only
know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed
a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.


When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on
your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where
you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator
immediately,
but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive
but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear
your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange
throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy
spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!

That would be one hell of a bad day. So are you going to cut and
install a new connection? ;)





I'm going to see if I can get Shakespeare to make me about a 2 meter
cable.

Why not wait to see how much room you have to tuck the excess cable into
until you receive your boat? You may have plenty of room . I certainly
did on our 20 foot runabout.


I had the coil on a Whaler CC. I didn't like it.

Why?


Got in my way. Looked messy.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:34:25 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:06:49 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:29:23 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct
way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the
proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new
connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my
helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only
know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed
a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.

When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on
your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where
you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator
immediately,
but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive
but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear
your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange
throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy
spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!
That would be one hell of a bad day. So are you going to cut and
install a new connection? ;)




I'm going to see if I can get Shakespeare to make me about a 2 meter
cable.
Why not wait to see how much room you have to tuck the excess cable into
until you receive your boat? You may have plenty of room . I certainly
did on our 20 foot runabout.

I had the coil on a Whaler CC. I didn't like it.
Why?


Got in my way. Looked messy.

Ahhh, now I understand. Mine is attached to the bulkhead behind the
radio mounted into the helm, and is completely hidden and out of the
way. The ONLY time I ever saw the coil of cable is when they installed
the radio. If I had to move it out of the way, and look at 20 ft. of
ant. cable, I would spend the little bit for a shorter ant. cable.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Thu, 27 Sep 2007 05:56:13 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:34:25 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:06:49 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:29:23 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct
way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the
proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new
connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my
helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only
know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed
a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.

When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on
your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where
you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator
immediately,
but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive
but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear
your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange
throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy
spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!
That would be one hell of a bad day. So are you going to cut and
install a new connection? ;)




I'm going to see if I can get Shakespeare to make me about a 2 meter
cable.
Why not wait to see how much room you have to tuck the excess cable into
until you receive your boat? You may have plenty of room . I certainly
did on our 20 foot runabout.

I had the coil on a Whaler CC. I didn't like it.
Why?


Got in my way. Looked messy.

Ahhh, now I understand. Mine is attached to the bulkhead behind the
radio mounted into the helm, and is completely hidden and out of the
way. The ONLY time I ever saw the coil of cable is when they installed
the radio. If I had to move it out of the way, and look at 20 ft. of
ant. cable, I would spend the little bit for a shorter ant. cable.

Yup, especially when one of the main storage areas is inside the console!