Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:18:16 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:40:58 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?


No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU
put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....
True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a certain
amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is rusty and I'd have
to go dig out the books, but I think you should have a 1/2 wavelength or so
in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 .... can't remember. Too short will
cause the antenna not to load properly (assuming it is the correct length)
and result in an excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted
power and, in the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the
radio.

If you have matching problems with the antenna and are fairly certain
that the antenna, connectors are known good and the radio is
presenting power properly, then the suspect is the length of the
feedline.

End result - you trim the feeline to bring the antenna to the correct
match. Thus you are tuning the antenna using the feedline.

That's why God invented antenna tuners. :)

That is the beauty of rec.boats, even when you think every possible
boating discussion has been beat to death, a new informative topic will
arise, that we can learn from.

Of course, we will beat this one to death.

ROTFL!!!

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:52:37 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


Well, it's not beat to death yet. I'm getting conflicting views on this
antenna cable length. I really don't like having 20' of cable coiled up in
the console. There's not much space there already.

But, I'll do what I have to do.

Don't worry about it. Cut it, but leave about 12 feet total.

Agreed - if it's really bothering you that much, do as Dick suggests.

Sometimes people with some knowledge can confuse the issue for those
with less than perfect knowledge.

I'm as guilty of that as anybody.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:



Tom, according to the Metz website, they are used by the Coast Guard. This
is also said on other sites I've visited. See: http://tinyurl.com/22m7sy



Lowest bidder.

Eisboch

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...

Sometimes people with some knowledge can confuse the issue for those
with less than perfect knowledge.

I'm as guilty of that as anybody.

Me too, plus my memory is getting bad. Some folks focus on politics. I
am more of a technology nerd, but with a fading level of competence.

Eisboch

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:05:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:



Tom, according to the Metz website, they are used by the Coast Guard. This
is also said on other sites I've visited. See: http://tinyurl.com/22m7sy



Lowest bidder.

Oh. The guv is back to actual bids?

--Vic

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:05:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:


Tom, according to the Metz website, they are used by the Coast Guard. This
is also said on other sites I've visited. See: http://tinyurl.com/22m7sy


Lowest bidder.

Oh. The guv is back to actual bids?

--Vic


Only if there isn't a close friend or relative or former employer of
Dicque Cheney available.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:55:58 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .

Keys? I always call them buttons. I better find the cell manual.
This is one of those so far f**ked up threads with no answer for me
yet, but we'll get there.
There's at least 2 eccentrics with radio backgrounds slinging ****,
and one seemingly normal guy who stated the only useful info - he
commonly talks 20 miles with his VHF. But even he has some kind
of wave gizmo to constantly check that his signals are "tuned."
Bunch of weirdos. And us cell phone guys have to rely on them?

--Vic

If I sound "seemingly normal", you need to have a chat with Mrs.E. :-)

Eisboch

I'm charitable in making these calls. It's not nice to use the loon
word. It antagonizes the loons.

--Vic

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:19:25 -0500, John H.
wrote:


Oh - did I mention they are junk?

So Shakespeare is the way to go? I had to replace two of those on the
Proline. They just quit working! I could transmit maybe a quarter mile
away.

Oh oh.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:59:14 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry
Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.

SWF,
I was trying to get you airfare down to Baltimore and you blew it.

I don't drive to Baltimore airport. I'd consider National though!

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:18:16 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:40:58 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?


No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU
put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....
True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a certain
amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is rusty and I'd have
to go dig out the books, but I think you should have a 1/2 wavelength or so
in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 .... can't remember. Too short will
cause the antenna not to load properly (assuming it is the correct length)
and result in an excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted
power and, in the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the
radio.

If you have matching problems with the antenna and are fairly certain
that the antenna, connectors are known good and the radio is
presenting power properly, then the suspect is the length of the
feedline.

End result - you trim the feeline to bring the antenna to the correct
match. Thus you are tuning the antenna using the feedline.

That's why God invented antenna tuners. :)

That is the beauty of rec.boats, even when you think every possible
boating discussion has been beat to death, a new informative topic will
arise, that we can learn from.

Of course, we will beat this one to death.



Well, it's not beat to death yet. I'm getting conflicting views on this
antenna cable length. I really don't like having 20' of cable coiled up in
the console. There's not much space there already.

But, I'll do what I have to do.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:53:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:37:27 +0000, Larry wrote:

It's not on larger boats, either. At 55' atop the mainmast of an Amel
Sharki 40 ketch, the Metz easily outperforms the 8' monsters, which must
be mounted lower.

What - you work for them or something?

Metz antennas are crap - always have been, always will be.

Junk.

Tom, according to the Metz website, they are used by the Coast Guard. This
is also said on other sites I've visited. See: http://tinyurl.com/22m7sy

Is there a specific reason you don't like them, the Metz Manta 6
specifically?

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:52:37 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .


Well, it's not beat to death yet. I'm getting conflicting views on this
antenna cable length. I really don't like having 20' of cable coiled up in
the console. There's not much space there already.

But, I'll do what I have to do.


Don't worry about it. Cut it, but leave about 12 feet total.

Eisboch


Hey, almost half the problem is gone! Let's continue please...

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:58:49 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:53:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:37:27 +0000, Larry wrote:

It's not on larger boats, either. At 55' atop the mainmast of an Amel
Sharki 40 ketch, the Metz easily outperforms the 8' monsters, which must
be mounted lower.

What - you work for them or something?

Metz antennas are crap - always have been, always will be.

Junk.

Tom, according to the Metz website, they are used by the Coast Guard. This
is also said on other sites I've visited. See: http://tinyurl.com/22m7sy

Is there a specific reason you don't like them, the Metz Manta 6
specifically?

Yes - they are junk.

End of story.

And their warranty sucks.

Oh - did I mention they are junk?

So Shakespeare is the way to go? I had to replace two of those on the
Proline. They just quit working! I could transmit maybe a quarter mile
away.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:09:13 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .

Sometimes people with some knowledge can confuse the issue for those
with less than perfect knowledge.

I'm as guilty of that as anybody.

Me too, plus my memory is getting bad. Some folks focus on politics. I
am more of a technology nerd, but with a fading level of competence.

Heh - I'm right with you on that one.

I used to be able to rattle stuff off as quick as I could talk - after
a few, well more than a 'few", years away from the radio and building
"stuff", the more I seem to need refresher on.

For example, I fired up the Collins S-line the other night just to
hand out some Qs for a state CW contest that was going on and I had to
look up how to load the transmitter properly.

Used to do that in my sleep. :)

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:12:48 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
m:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get
by with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a
new connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable.
The Metz does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great
features. YOU put the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not
hard wired into the plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare
come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Really.

Tell me why.


No problem.....

Anywhere along the length of a transmission line terminated in its
characteristic impedance (the antennas and cable are 52 ohms), the
voltage and current are constant and there are no standing waves. In
reality, this is not possible, but it is very close.

The old CB nonsense was to use the transmission line's standing waves to
find a place where the impedance is close to 52 ohms. Unfortunately,
this changes with frequency and whatever is wrong with the antenna on the
other end. We hams have used tuned open wire feeders for 90 years or so.
But, none of these antenna systems and transmitters are designed to be
used with tuned feeders, which present the transmitter with a very odd
voltage to current phase relationship that may cause destruction of the
output amp stage.

If the VHF power amp brick detects the wrong impedance or phase, it turns
the power down to protect the brick....never a good thing.

So, in a tuned antenna system, it matters not where you place the
transmitter because the impedance load at any point on the transmission
line is very close to constant.

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

"Eisboch" wrote in
:

True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a
certain amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is
rusty and I'd have to go dig out the books, but I think you should
have a 1/2 wavelength or so in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 ....
can't remember. Too short will cause the antenna not to load
properly (assuming it is the correct length) and result in an
excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted power and, in
the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the radio.

Eisboch



Nope. All wrong. You don't need any cable at all. There is absolutely NO
REASON to measure cable length to the multiple of any length....once the
CBers leave the building.

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

HK wrote in
:

Frankly, I think we need something a lot better than VHF, some variant
of marine cell (not satellite) for in shore and near shore. The bigger
offshore boats that sink, well, we need more fishing reefs anyway, right?



http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/glo...ited_plan.html

Done! $50/mo in what's left of 2007. $40/mo in 2008. $20/mo in 2009 and
2010. UNLIMITED AIRTIME TO ANY PHONE IN THE US AND CANADA INCL PR.
Reasonable rates to other places.

And, you can carry it in your car and use it at home, too!

Really cheap satphone for coastal USA/Canada and most of the Caribbean.
Look at the maps.

Anybody who can afford to feed those outboard monsters can afford a
satphone from Globalstar, now.



Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Larry wrote:
HK wrote in
:

Frankly, I think we need something a lot better than VHF, some variant
of marine cell (not satellite) for in shore and near shore. The bigger
offshore boats that sink, well, we need more fishing reefs anyway, right?



http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/glo...ited_plan.html

Done! $50/mo in what's left of 2007. $40/mo in 2008. $20/mo in 2009 and
2010. UNLIMITED AIRTIME TO ANY PHONE IN THE US AND CANADA INCL PR.
Reasonable rates to other places.

And, you can carry it in your car and use it at home, too!

Really cheap satphone for coastal USA/Canada and most of the Caribbean.
Look at the maps.

Anybody who can afford to feed those outboard monsters can afford a
satphone from Globalstar, now.



Larry


I looked into that. The phone itself was about a grand. At the moment,
my cell provides the coverage I want while out on the Bay. Works good in
Virginia Beach to a decent distance offshore and it worked offshore in
Hawaii, too.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:53:20 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Metz antennas are crap - always have been, always will be.

I always used them on all of my old sailboats. On top of a 50 to 80
ft mast with a run of low loss coax they seem to perform quite well.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:28:26 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

It's length *does* affect proper antenna loading.

And that's a *loaded* statement which gets debated in some circles
almost as much as "which boat is the best".

In theory the length of the coax does not matter, but that assumes a
perfect match with a SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) of 1:1. In practice an
SWR of 1.5:1 is generally good enough to ignore feed line length. This
discussion quickly gets very technical and into some very esoteric
transmission line theory.

Someone else mentioned the issue of being able to properly install a
coax connector which is also important. If you do not have the tools
or expertise, it is better to leave the coax uncut, or hire a
professional radio guy to do the job right.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire

You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:00:33 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Of course, we will beat this one to death.

ROTFL!!!

And in the end you will be left to sort out the theoretical from the
practical from the total BS and the folklore.

If, and this is a big *if*, the impeadance of the antenna, feed line
(coax) and the radio all match up correctly, the length of the coax
makes *no* difference at all, and no tuner is necessary or even
desirable.

It is a good idea to have the SWR checked periodically, maybe once a
season, and especially if you seem to have trouble being heard by
others. In practice I have never done that and my radios seem to work
fine. When they don't I usually start by replacing the coax with the
best high quality, low loss product I can get, and that has always
solved the problem. Any problems with impeadance mismatch will be
greatly exacerbated by low quality or aging coax.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:50:08 -0500, John H.
wrote:

PS. What would you recommend in the $200-$250 range?

It's really hard to go wrong with an ICOM radio. They are right up
there with Furuno for reliable equipment in my book.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:51:46 +0000, Larry wrote:


http://www.globalcomsatphone.com/glo...ited_plan.html

Done! $50/mo in what's left of 2007. $40/mo in 2008. $20/mo in 2009 and
2010. UNLIMITED AIRTIME TO ANY PHONE IN THE US AND CANADA INCL PR.
Reasonable rates to other places.

And, you can carry it in your car and use it at home, too!

Really cheap satphone for coastal USA/Canada and most of the Caribbean.
Look at the maps.

Anybody who can afford to feed those outboard monsters can afford a
satphone from Globalstar, now.

Globalstar has been getting poor reports from those who have used it,
frequent disconnections being the most common complaint. Most folks
seem to prefer Iridium. It's more expensive but apparently a lot more
reliable. I have no first hand experience with either.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:57:43 -0400, HK wrote:

I looked into that. The phone itself was about a grand. At the moment,
my cell provides the coverage I want while out on the Bay. Works good in
Virginia Beach to a decent distance offshore and it worked offshore in
Hawaii, too.

We are usually OK with cell phones out to about 10 miles or so, after
that nada. There are some massive dead zones however, particularly in
the coastal Carolinas. We found a big one today in the middle of
Delaware Bay about 1/3 of the way north from Cape May, NJ.

VHF to USCG or SeaTow seems to be OK 30 or 40 miles out in most
places, sometimes a great deal more. Their antennas are well sited on
high towers or buildings.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:57:43 -0400, HK wrote:

I looked into that. The phone itself was about a grand. At the moment,
my cell provides the coverage I want while out on the Bay. Works good in
Virginia Beach to a decent distance offshore and it worked offshore in
Hawaii, too.

We are usually OK with cell phones out to about 10 miles or so, after
that nada. There are some massive dead zones however, particularly in
the coastal Carolinas. We found a big one today in the middle of
Delaware Bay about 1/3 of the way north from Cape May, NJ.

VHF to USCG or SeaTow seems to be OK 30 or 40 miles out in most
places, sometimes a great deal more. Their antennas are well sited on
high towers or buildings.

And you start sinking, and you manage to call the CG. How do they know
where you are? If you can not get to your GPS or it failed in the fire
causing the sinking, you die. And you might have been saved by someone who
heard your VHF call.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

HK wrote in
:

The phone itself was about a grand.

$645. $495 if you buy a demo unit.
add $30/mo for repair insurance.

Iridium phones are MUCH more!

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

We are usually OK with cell phones out to about 10 miles or so, after
that nada. There are some massive dead zones however, particularly in
the coastal Carolinas. We found a big one today in the middle of
Delaware Bay about 1/3 of the way north from Cape May, NJ.



I have this 3 watt (800)/2 watt (1900) bi-directional, full duplex amp:
http://cellantenna.com/Boosters/da4000.htm
and it now comes with a high gain antenna you can haul up the yardarm for
more altitude. $199. You must have a cellphone with an antenna connector
and adapter cable, of course. My phone is a Motorola E815 on Alltel, which
is the 800B carrier here. Amp/antenna plugs into the back easily.

Range to shore cell at 3W up 50' is about the same as VHF marine
radio...20-30 miles. I can raise the ERP and receive sensitivity with my
11-element DB Products 800 Mhz paging antenna but pointing it ashore up
there is always iffy...(c;

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Wayne.B wrote in
:

Globalstar has been getting poor reports from those who have used it,
frequent disconnections being the most common complaint. Most folks
seem to prefer Iridium. It's more expensive but apparently a lot more
reliable. I have no first hand experience with either.



Globalstar's satellite constellation is not yet complete....hence the cheap
prices. The drops are caused by gaps between the birds. There's also a
considerable difference in technology. Globalstar birds are simply
repeaters to the nearest ground station, hence the land-based-only coverage
footprint. Then their LEOs are over ocean, there's no ground station in
range. Iridium, on the other hand, has a full constellation of LEO
satellites that also act as relay stations, relaying your call from bird-
to-bird until it gets in range of the ground station nearest who you are
calling, even on the other side of the planet. This gives them true global
coverage with no gaps if you're standing outside with a view of the sky.

Too bad Iridium went belly up and had to be bailed out by the military.
It's a great concept, but was just too expensive to implement and operate.

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:03:41 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:


It's length *does* affect proper antenna loading.

And that's a *loaded* statement which gets debated in some circles
almost as much as "which boat is the best".

When I was at the ARRL and Technical Editor of QEX, I moderated a
panel discussion between Lou Varney, the head of the Lab, and the
editor of the ARRL antenna book at a seminar - there were other
professional RF engineers on the panel also.

The single most contentious issue was feedlines and their effect on
antenna loading.

I have a transcript of it around here somewhere. I'll send you a
copy.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire

You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

John H. wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:45:29 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.
Wayne,

What I have learned from all of this is when I said "splice" I really
meant "cut and install a new connector", and if I can't use the proper
words, I probably am completely incapable of installing a new connector,
without dropping so much signal that it will barely reach from my helm
to the bow of my boat.

It probably won't matter, I very rarely use my VHF, so I would only know
it was not working correctly if I had an emergency and really needed a
good quality connection. Since the odds of this happening is low, I
will not worry about it.


When you're on the water, and your engine dies, and call TowBoatUS on your
cell phone, and you drop your cell phone in the bilge while trying to
unscrew the fuel filter, and the tow boat guy manages to get to where you
were when you (luckily) gave your position to the operator immediately, but
the wind has blown you a few miles away, and your radio will receive but
not transmit, and you hear the towboat guy calling but he can't hear your
response, and you stand on the engine compartment waving your orange throw
cushions back and forth for a half hour, and finally the towboat guy spots
you, *THEN* you'll begin to worry about your damn radio!!


I don't worry about that, as I don't have a boat powered by either an
I/O or an eTec. :}

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:07:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:52:15 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Needless to say, this will prompt a long discussion on the correct way
to splice or how stupid it is to splice an ant. wire
You never splice coax without using proper connectors and a barrel
splice, all of which introduce some additional losses.

The *right* way is to cut off the original connector, shorten the
cable as needed, and install a new connector.

Is there a 'proper' manner of installing a new connector? Is there a
'proper' type of new connector to install?


Most antenna kits come with an instruction sheet. The instructions
describe in words and drawings how to attach the connector. Only minor
soldering skills are required.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:36:20 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:27:10 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:19:25 -0500, John H.
wrote:


Oh - did I mention they are junk?

So Shakespeare is the way to go? I had to replace two of those on the
Proline. They just quit working! I could transmit maybe a quarter mile
away.

Oh oh.

Oh, oh, what???

I've actually followed this thread about antennas.
There have been two brand recommendations.
Metz and Shakespeare.
Harry and Tom both trashed the Metz.
You just trashed the Shakespeare.
Oh, oh, what brand antenna should John get?
I'm just learning. You're buying.

--Vic

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..




I don't worry about that, as I don't have a boat powered by either an I/O
or an eTec. :}


In the interest of your boating safety, may I suggest this as a backup to
your cell phone?

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/phone.html

Eisboch

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:36:20 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:27:10 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:19:25 -0500, John H.
wrote:


Oh - did I mention they are junk?
So Shakespeare is the way to go? I had to replace two of those on the
Proline. They just quit working! I could transmit maybe a quarter mile
away.
Oh oh.
Oh, oh, what???

I've actually followed this thread about antennas.
There have been two brand recommendations.
Metz and Shakespeare.
Harry and Tom both trashed the Metz.
You just trashed the Shakespeare.
Oh, oh, what brand antenna should John get?
I'm just learning. You're buying.

--Vic


I didn't "trash" Metz. I said the one I had fell apart. It is my feeling
that VHF antennae on small boats, even on small boats as large as my
original Parker, take a hell of a beating.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:45:49 -0400, HK wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:15:24 -0400, HK wrote:

Eisboch wrote:
"Frogwatch" wrote in message
oups.com...
Proof that this NG does some good for boaters and is not all
politics. I face the same issue in that I have an 8' antenna on my
Tolman but recently installed a bimini and have not been sure of what
to do about the antenna. Harry says his 3' antenna works fine and
clears the bimini............

I installed a 3' antenna and Icom radio on the console of a Dauntless Whaler
I had. No bimini, but I didn't want a long antenna in the way while fishing
and the short, stainless whip could be bent over under the console grab
rail, out of the way.

It worked, but didn't have nearly the range of an 8 footer mounted higher up
on a boat. As for 10 mile range? No way on mine. Maybe two at best.

Eisboch


Mine is mounted on a vertical rail on the side of my center console.
When up, it just clears the underneath of the bimini, and the bimini
clears the top of my head by at least six to eight inches, so I am
guessing the tip of the antenna is somewhere close to 7' off the deck of
the boat. It seems to work well for me, although I rarely use VHF, since
almost everyone is on cell, even the guys I chat with who are fishing on
their boats out on the bay.
Do you have this radio: IC-M604 ?

I think I like the Metz Manta 6 stainless whip antenna. It can easily be
mounted to the console.

No, I thought the IC-M504 was expensive enough. Bought all my
electronics but the fishfinder from BOE in Annapolis. Good local prices.

Harry, What's BOE? Were they cheaper than $299 for that unit?


I paid about $275.

http://www.boemarine.com/


First class operation up in annapolis. Call and ask for jim...good
prices, fast service and if you spend more than a few hundred bucks,
they usually have free shipping. Since you are in VA, no sales tax, either.

The store is worth a visit. I went up there to buy since I could not
avoid the sales tax.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..



I don't worry about that, as I don't have a boat powered by either an I/O
or an eTec. :}


In the interest of your boating safety, may I suggest this as a backup to
your cell phone?

http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/phone.html

Eisboch



I like the one with the virtual wire.

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:16:55 -0400, HK wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:05:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:36:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:


Tom, according to the Metz website, they are used by the Coast Guard. This
is also said on other sites I've visited. See: http://tinyurl.com/22m7sy


Lowest bidder.

Oh. The guv is back to actual bids?

--Vic


Only if there isn't a close friend or relative or former employer of
Dicque Cheney available.

alt.politics? WalMart...Balls...???

Yo! Harry! (or anyone else) Antenna question
 

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:27:10 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:19:25 -0500, John H.
wrote:


Oh - did I mention they are junk?

So Shakespeare is the way to go? I had to replace two of those on the
Proline. They just quit working! I could transmit maybe a quarter mile
away.

Oh oh.

Oh, oh, what???