On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 12:28:54 -0700, Tim wrote:

Tom, if 8 g. is too big, then go 10g. it's good for about 70a. on
12v . After all, the least it will do while cranking the 25 horse (if
having a hard to start spell). is slowly melt the insulation
off.. ?:

West Marine has some nice charts for sizing wire he

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...MarineWire.htm

Unfortunately the web site leaves off the color code for wire size but
it is on page 458 of the 2007 catalog. The smallest size (16 ga,
medium blue) is at the bottom, followed upwards by 14 guage (red), 12
guage (yellow), etc.

Since a 10% voltage drop is acceptable for a momentary load, let's use
the second chart and assume a 40 amp draw for the starter motor.
Following the 40 amp line to the right until we get to a round trip
length of 32 to 40 feet, shows that either 8 ga or 10 ga would be
acceptable. I'd probably make the conservative choice and select 8
guage.

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
Get some shrink tubing for the lugs.

Get some acid free soldering flux.

Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

Always crimp such connections and not at the collar of the connector but in
the middle and towards the eyelet. This allows the strands to flex in an
arc and not a point at the collar of the crimp connector and allow flex
without breakage.

Gene Kerns advise above is good but I might add:

Stuff some small amount of axle or non-conducting grease into the shoulder
of the crimp connector after crimping. The idea is once the heat shrink has
shrunk a small amount will squeeze out and no air or moisture can get in.
Will last longer and not oxidize as fast.

The breaker size should be 5-20% larger than the peek current draw. Don't
put a 40 amp breaker on a 15 amp starter even if the wire can take more.
The breaker is as much to protect battery, wire and starter. Yes, as Gene
suggested if the run of wire is long, up the size a notch to compensate for
resistance. And use stranded marine grade.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"

wrote:
Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

Oh, c'mon man.
Use a top post battery, get a propper fitting hose clamp, put around
the battery post, Bare off about 1 inch of insullation, slide the bare
wires down betweent he hose clamp and the battery post. tighten tight.

That way you can always monitor the corrosion.

Any job worth doing is worth doing right!

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 16:12:12 -0700, Tim wrote:

On Sep 23, 5:10 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"

wrote:
Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

Oh, c'mon man.
Use a top post battery, get a propper fitting hose clamp, put around
the battery post, Bare off about 1 inch of insullation, slide the bare
wires down betweent he hose clamp and the battery post. tighten tight.

That way you can always monitor the corrosion.

I know farmers who have the exact configuration on Super MTAs. :)

Any job worth doing is worth doing right!

Damn straight.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:10:43 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, "Canuck57"
wrote:

Never solder cable subject to vibration. Just don't do it. Or you will
have to rework it in time, likely on the water. The strands will flex an
break, the insulation will degrade and when few strands are left the current
will burn the rest out. That is if the solder joint isn't cold or cracks.

In the installation we are discussing, solder will strengthen the
mechanical bond.

And increase the likelihood that you will end up with a wire in one
hand and a tightly adhered 1/2 inch of wire and lug in the other.

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

I absolutely do not agree. Even if so, that is why we use adhesive
heat shrink. Properly installed crimps with heat shrink won't work
harden, corrode, and certainly won't come apart....

Soldering prevents that. The only truly effective battery connection
is a molded lead/tin casting onto the cable and gues what...

That's the same effect as soldering.

Any it is why these things sell like hot cakes....
http://tinyurl.com/36bwhp

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:46:25 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

Even with a production level mechanical crimper, it is almost
impossible to prevent vibration from loosening the connectors.

I absolutely do not agree. Even if so, that is why we use adhesive
heat shrink. Properly installed crimps with heat shrink won't work
harden, corrode, and certainly won't come apart....

Well you must be really rich then if you can do it without having a
molded connector.

You ought to go into buisness. :)

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 21:47:32 GMT, Canuck57 penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


Stuff some small amount of axle or non-conducting grease into the shoulder
of the crimp connector after crimping. The idea is once the heat shrink has
shrunk a small amount will squeeze out and no air or moisture can get in.
Will last longer and not oxidize as fast.


Don't use axle grease..... use a good quality dielectric grease. I
prefer Dow Corning DC-4.

And the stuff is MUCH better to use in installing oil filters than
oil. You will never have a stuck filter....

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:11:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.


Lamp cord...... rigghhhttt.......

The smallest marine battery cable than I know of is #8..... suppose
they are trying to tell you something???? Ditto the packaged terminal
set....


--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:51:40 -0400, Gene Kearns
wrote:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 19:11:30 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:19:31 -0000,
wrote:

I want to install my battery in the bow of my 16 foot skiff. The
battery will power the starter for a 25 horse electric start
evinrude.
The total cable length will be 18 feet, no breaks. What guage wire do
I need to use, do I need to use something as big as a car like 4
guage, or can I use 8?? How many amps does a typical 25 horse starter
draw?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Go to Abuchon's and get 20 feet of #10 zip wire. You don't need
anything larger than #10 - that starter doesn't require tons of amps.


Lamp cord...... rigghhhttt.......

Well, for starters, it's not lamp cord. It's used on farms for
repairs to tractors, milking machines and a ton of other uses where
the capacity is less than required for #8.

Secondly, it has heavy quage strands and is stiff as a board.

The smallest marine battery cable than I know of is #8..... suppose
they are trying to tell you something???? Ditto the packaged terminal
set....

Wrong again.

I can point you to a number of manufacturers, includin Grady White who
use #10 cable in zip cord format for easier wire runs.