Sad event in Scituate
 

While monitoring the marine radio we heard a distress call from a boat just
off the shoreline by the new inlet in Scituate. A scuba diver had become
detached from his flag lanyard and was missing in rough seas. Scituate
harbormaster boats, local Coast Guard, Environmental Police and State Police
assisted by Coast Guard choppers conducted a two day search that was
officially called off today. Local boaters in larger boats also aided in
the search. I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

Don't know all the details. Rumor has it that he was diving alone. You
could sense the desperation in the voice of the guy that was running the
boat from which he was diving.

Eisboch

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

While monitoring the marine radio we heard a distress call from a boat just
off the shoreline by the new inlet in Scituate. A scuba diver had become
detached from his flag lanyard and was missing in rough seas. Scituate
harbormaster boats, local Coast Guard, Environmental Police and State Police
assisted by Coast Guard choppers conducted a two day search that was
officially called off today. Local boaters in larger boats also aided in
the search. I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

Don't know all the details. Rumor has it that he was diving alone. You
could sense the desperation in the voice of the guy that was running the
boat from which he was diving.

That sucks.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Sad event in Scituate
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)


Not only that, but you probably don't have the "wave-wind chart" one of
Chuck's commercial sponsors imprints. Without that chart, you couldn't
possibly judge the height of waves and of course there are no wave,
wind, current, tidal or other conditions that might produce variations
not on that chart.

Sad event in Scituate
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Somewhere I have some pictures taken during my Navy days aboard a 318 ft
Destroyer Escort at sea in the North Atlantic in February. If I can find
them and scan them, I'll post the on my website.

Maybe seeing the ship's hurricane bow completely submerged and 25 ft waves
crashing on the fantail will convince him.

Eisboch

Sad event in Scituate
 

Eisboch wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Somewhere I have some pictures taken during my Navy days aboard a 318 ft
Destroyer Escort at sea in the North Atlantic in February. If I can find
them and scan them, I'll post the on my website.

Maybe seeing the ship's hurricane bow completely submerged and 25 ft waves
crashing on the fantail will convince him.

Eisboch




I don't recall Chuckster spending much time out in the ocean, or at
least offering up purple prose about it. Isn't he more of a protected
waters bloater, er, boater?

Sad event in Scituate
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

If we don't mention numbers to describe waves, are we allowed to at least
say stuff like "It's really phuqued up out here today!"? Or, "I don't see
how you can read with the boat flyin' around like this." You know - non
professional comments.

Sad event in Scituate
 

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


I don't recall Chuckster spending much time out in the ocean, or at least
offering up purple prose about it. Isn't he more of a protected waters
bloater, er, boater?


I don't know.

I confess, I haven't read many of the posts here for the last couple of
months. With Mrs. E's blessings, I've spent many more hours on the boats
this summer than I have at home and I don't bother with an Internet
connection on them.

Unfortunately, Labor Day is a reminder that the remaining days are numbered,
and the "honey-do" list has now turned into a two book volume.

Eisboch

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

While monitoring the marine radio we heard a distress call from a boat just
off the shoreline by the new inlet in Scituate. A scuba diver had become
detached from his flag lanyard and was missing in rough seas. Scituate
harbormaster boats, local Coast Guard, Environmental Police and State Police
assisted by Coast Guard choppers conducted a two day search that was
officially called off today. Local boaters in larger boats also aided in
the search. I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

Don't know all the details. Rumor has it that he was diving alone. You
could sense the desperation in the voice of the guy that was running the
boat from which he was diving.

Eisboch



Damn shame. There's probably a dozen things they were doing wrong, but it's
still a shame.

In your case it sounded like discretion was the better part of valor.
--
John H

Sad event in Scituate
 

Go over there to see a photo of water crashing over the bow of my deck boat.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


I don't recall Chuckster spending much time out in the ocean, or at least
offering up purple prose about it. Isn't he more of a protected waters
bloater, er, boater?


I don't know.

I confess, I haven't read many of the posts here for the last couple of
months. With Mrs. E's blessings, I've spent many more hours on the boats
this summer than I have at home and I don't bother with an Internet
connection on them.

Unfortunately, Labor Day is a reminder that the remaining days are
numbered, and the "honey-do" list has now turned into a two book volume.

Eisboch



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)


According to Chuck the folks in the other thread were unlikely to have
actually encountered SEVEN foot waves on a day when conditions were
reported to have winds of about 15 knots. Once again there is a hell
of a difference between 3 footers, 5 footers, and SEVEN footers

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Sep 3, 5:59?am, HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Not only that, but you probably don't have the "wave-wind chart" one of
Chuck's commercial sponsors imprints. Without that chart, you couldn't
possibly judge the height of waves and of course there are no wave,
wind, current, tidal or other conditions that might produce variations
not on that chart.

You ought to be the master of wave knowledge, you lying sack of dung.
115 hours on the water over 4 years, with the caveat that if the
weather isn't pleasant enough for your wife to wear her bathing suit
you sit at your computer and post lies to a variety of newsgroups
instead.

Oh, I forgot---- your 115 hours was just on the Parker. I guess you
spend most of your time on the water on your lobster boat, on your
wife's center console, and certainly before that on your Hatteras mega-
yacht.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Sep 3, 6:03?am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in messagenews:dv0od3delrvtno2h1peh5m7ulf6olvfaq8@4ax .com...

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Somewhere I have some pictures taken during my Navy days aboard a 318 ft
Destroyer Escort at sea in the North Atlantic in February. If I can find
them and scan them, I'll post the on my website.

Maybe seeing the ship's hurricane bow completely submerged and 25 ft waves
crashing on the fantail will convince him.

Eisboch

Nope. 25 foot waves in the middle of the North Atlantic in February
won't convince me that the boaters in the other thread suddenly
encountered legitimate 7 footers on a day when the weather was
otherwise moderate. Chop can be significantly increased by tidal
action or river outflow, but I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.

Sad event in Scituate
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:59?am, HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)
Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)
Not only that, but you probably don't have the "wave-wind chart" one of
Chuck's commercial sponsors imprints. Without that chart, you couldn't
possibly judge the height of waves and of course there are no wave,
wind, current, tidal or other conditions that might produce variations
not on that chart.

You ought to be the master of wave knowledge, you lying sack of dung.
115 hours on the water over 4 years, with the caveat that if the
weather isn't pleasant enough for your wife to wear her bathing suit
you sit at your computer and post lies to a variety of newsgroups
instead.

Oh, I forgot---- your 115 hours was just on the Parker. I guess you
spend most of your time on the water on your lobster boat, on your
wife's center console, and certainly before that on your Hatteras mega-
yacht.



Heheheh. Tell us how you really feel, Chuck. Don't hold back.

You are right about one thing, though. My wife doesn't like to boat in
crappy cold rainy weather. Neither do I. But up where you live, that
seems to be the norm.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:56:47 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Harry? Is that you? What horse crap.
--
John H

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:59:43 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)


Not only that, but you probably don't have the "wave-wind chart" one of
Chuck's commercial sponsors imprints. Without that chart, you couldn't
possibly judge the height of waves and of course there are no wave,
wind, current, tidal or other conditions that might produce variations
not on that chart.

Should've known you'd jump on that one!
--
John H

Sad event in Scituate
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 3, 6:03?am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:dv0od3delrvtno2h1peh5m7ulf6olvfaq8@4ax .com...

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past
few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Somewhere I have some pictures taken during my Navy days aboard a 318 ft
Destroyer Escort at sea in the North Atlantic in February. If I can find
them and scan them, I'll post the on my website.

Maybe seeing the ship's hurricane bow completely submerged and 25 ft
waves
crashing on the fantail will convince him.

Eisboch

Nope. 25 foot waves in the middle of the North Atlantic in February
won't convince me that the boaters in the other thread suddenly
encountered legitimate 7 footers on a day when the weather was
otherwise moderate. Chop can be significantly increased by tidal
action or river outflow, but I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.


Chuck, you are sadly mistaken about changeable conditions here, "here"
meaning where I spent many years boating with my dad, from the Eastern end
of Long Island to Nantucket. And currently, my boating is done on Lake
Ontario, which can be like a pond at noon, and completely insane 4-6 hours
later. There are quite a few large shipwrecks under this lake.

Sad event in Scituate
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)


According to Chuck the folks in the other thread were unlikely to have
actually encountered SEVEN foot waves on a day when conditions were
reported to have winds of about 15 knots. Once again there is a hell
of a difference between 3 footers, 5 footers, and SEVEN footers




There are inlets where because of sea, tide, current, depth, and wind
conditions, *huge* breaking waves can occur, especially over or near
bars that are not far underwater. I know of two such inlets where the
channel is deep enough and wide enough for your tug to make a safe
passage on the calmest days, but would be tossed on the hard on more
typical days, for a number of reasons, include five to seven foot breakers.

But you are right about one thing: these is a difference between 3, 5,
and 7 footers.

Sad event in Scituate
 

"HK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past
few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)


According to Chuck the folks in the other thread were unlikely to have
actually encountered SEVEN foot waves on a day when conditions were
reported to have winds of about 15 knots. Once again there is a hell
of a difference between 3 footers, 5 footers, and SEVEN footers




There are inlets where because of sea, tide, current, depth, and wind
conditions, *huge* breaking waves can occur, especially over or near bars
that are not far underwater. I know of two such inlets where the channel
is deep enough and wide enough for your tug to make a safe passage on the
calmest days, but would be tossed on the hard on more typical days, for a
number of reasons, include five to seven foot breakers.

But you are right about one thing: these is a difference between 3, 5, and
7 footers.

Yes. The number 2.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread. You being a bright enough guy that you
don't need to resort to the habitual loser's devices of
misrepresenting the remarks of another party to the discussion and
peppering your retort with personal remarks, I'm sure you missed my
comment where I addressed similar insinuations in the other thread.
You either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it while selectively
assembling the evidence to support your accusation.

So here it is again, Tom.

*************************

We seem to be holding two different conversations simultaneously.

Unless I misread your intent, you observed that you encountered 3
footers on your recent fishing trip with the backyard renegade, and
attributed that to opposing winds and currents. Very probable
scenario.


To go from 3 foot chop to 7 foot chop requires a lot more energy.
Given that tidal ebb and flood will be within a couple of knots one
way or the other regardless of the extremity of the tide in almost
any
location other than a narow pass, the energy to go from the 3 footers
you observed to the 7 footers reported by the folks with the swamped
or sinking boat needs to come from the wind.


I have no doubt that you have seen 7-footers and more. It's hard to
imagine 7 foot chop when the winds are 10-15knots, as reported by the
victims of the incident. Seven foot swells, heck yes- not as much a
product of local winds as is chop. Also not really a problem unless
spaced very tightly together at a short period.


The boat photographed in the link will be experiencing waves breaking
on the foredeck in 4-footers, and could be pooped over the transom in
less.

********************************

I'll just assume that additional remarks from you on this issue will
be based on the entirety of my remarks on the subject. Thanks.

Sad event in Scituate
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread. You being a bright enough guy that you
don't need to resort to the habitual loser's devices of
misrepresenting the remarks of another party to the discussion and
peppering your retort with personal remarks, I'm sure you missed my
comment where I addressed similar insinuations in the other thread.
You either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it while selectively
assembling the evidence to support your accusation.

So here it is again, Tom.

*************************

We seem to be holding two different conversations simultaneously.



It's deja Chuck, all over again. And again. And again.

Is Chuck transmogrifying into...Skipper? Will we hear tales of sudden
onset 25-footers?

Sad event in Scituate
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"HK" wrote in message
...
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as
another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past
few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)


According to Chuck the folks in the other thread were unlikely to have
actually encountered SEVEN foot waves on a day when conditions were
reported to have winds of about 15 knots. Once again there is a hell
of a difference between 3 footers, 5 footers, and SEVEN footers




There are inlets where because of sea, tide, current, depth, and wind
conditions, *huge* breaking waves can occur, especially over or near bars
that are not far underwater. I know of two such inlets where the channel
is deep enough and wide enough for your tug to make a safe passage on the
calmest days, but would be tossed on the hard on more typical days, for a
number of reasons, include five to seven foot breakers.

But you are right about one thing: these is a difference between 3, 5,
and 7 footers.

Yes. The number 2.

You probably needed two hands to figure that one out.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Sep 3, 8:15?am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 3, 6:03?am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:dv0od3delrvtno2h1peh5m7ulf6olvfaq8@4ax .com...

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past
few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

Somewhere I have some pictures taken during my Navy days aboard a 318 ft
Destroyer Escort at sea in the North Atlantic in February. If I can find
them and scan them, I'll post the on my website.

Maybe seeing the ship's hurricane bow completely submerged and 25 ft
waves
crashing on the fantail will convince him.

Eisboch

Nope. 25 foot waves in the middle of the North Atlantic in February
won't convince me that the boaters in the other thread suddenly
encountered legitimate 7 footers on a day when the weather was
otherwise moderate. Chop can be significantly increased by tidal
action or river outflow, but I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.

Chuck, you are sadly mistaken about changeable conditions here, "here"
meaning where I spent many years boating with my dad, from the Eastern end
of Long Island to Nantucket. And currently, my boating is done on Lake
Ontario, which can be like a pond at noon, and completely insane 4-6 hours
later. There are quite a few large shipwrecks under this lake.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not mistaken at all. My position is that conditions *would* have
to change, significantly, to go from a calm day to seven foot chop.

When you have seen conditions deteriorate, what are the winds doing?
I don't think the chop just suddenly self-generates to be ornery. :-)

Sad event in Scituate
 

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 3, 8:15?am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 3, 6:03?am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in
messagenews:dv0od3delrvtno2h1peh5m7ulf6olvfaq8@4ax .com...

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as
another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the
past
few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).

According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most"
of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly
judge
sea states. :)

Somewhere I have some pictures taken during my Navy days aboard a 318
ft
Destroyer Escort at sea in the North Atlantic in February. If I can
find
them and scan them, I'll post the on my website.

Maybe seeing the ship's hurricane bow completely submerged and 25 ft
waves
crashing on the fantail will convince him.

Eisboch

Nope. 25 foot waves in the middle of the North Atlantic in February
won't convince me that the boaters in the other thread suddenly
encountered legitimate 7 footers on a day when the weather was
otherwise moderate. Chop can be significantly increased by tidal
action or river outflow, but I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.

Chuck, you are sadly mistaken about changeable conditions here, "here"
meaning where I spent many years boating with my dad, from the Eastern
end
of Long Island to Nantucket. And currently, my boating is done on Lake
Ontario, which can be like a pond at noon, and completely insane 4-6
hours
later. There are quite a few large shipwrecks under this lake.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm not mistaken at all. My position is that conditions *would* have
to change, significantly, to go from a calm day to seven foot chop.

When you have seen conditions deteriorate, what are the winds doing?
I don't think the chop just suddenly self-generates to be ornery. :-)


That's the theory, actually. :-)

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Sep 3, 8:25?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)

Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread. You being a bright enough guy that you
don't need to resort to the habitual loser's devices of
misrepresenting the remarks of another party to the discussion and
peppering your retort with personal remarks, I'm sure you missed my
comment where I addressed similar insinuations in the other thread.
You either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it while selectively
assembling the evidence to support your accusation.

So here it is again, Tom.

*************************

We seem to be holding two different conversations simultaneously.

It's deja Chuck, all over again. And again. And again.

Is Chuck transmogrifying into...Skipper? Will we hear tales of sudden
onset 25-footers?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardly. Pay some attention, Krause. I'm claiming that most people
overestimate wave height, not that I'm out braving hurricane force
winds in a 20-some foot trailer boat. My other claim is that it takes
a lot of energy to increase chop from 3 feet to 7 feet, and that the
wind is going to need to be involved. Seems like my remark generated a
lot of wind on this issue, and some of it smells like it's blowing off
a stockyard. :-)

One year just before Thanksgiving I was writing an article about a
medium size Grand Banks. I think it was the 43 East Bay. Winds were up
to the point where we could have easily decided to scrub the outing,
but conditions weren't flat-out dangerous so we went anyway.

When we got out to the lake, winds were a legitmate 25 knots. Chop
was 3-4 feet, as one would expect in winds of that magnitude on an
open body of water with several miles of fetch. One of the best ways
across the lake in those conditions is to crowd the leeward side of
one of the floating bridges. The pontoons, the roadway, and the
concrete margins are probably 10-12 feet above the surface and create
a very nice lee. You can easily see just where the wind begins to have
its way with the surface again, as the water becomes progressively
rougher the farther away from the lee side of the foating bridge.

Just for schlitz and grins, the broker suggested that we run the
*windward* side of the bridge. That's a different story entirely. The
windwaves bounce off the pontoons and double back into the oncoming
chop. As a result, the chop gets unnaturally steep and the period
between crests is cut to about half. They often close the bridge
during very high winds because there is water splashing onto the
roadway......
*but* (!) that doesn't mean there are 10-12 foot windwaves. The water
that splashes onto the roadway is primarily spray produced when the
smaller waves smash into the side of the pontoons and burst apart.

(I don't know about the East Coast, but out this way we don't include
spray in wave height. We often get spray over the cabin top in a
serious head sea, sometimes with every wave, but you won't hear me
claiming those are "10-foot seas."). :-)

The pontoon stretch of the floating bridge runs for almost exactly a
nautical mile. (Marks on the side of the bridge are used by folks who
want to run a "measured mile" for purposes of establishing speed). We
ran that mile in 25-knot winds, doubled back by the bridge, beam-to
waves that were easily increased from 3-4 feet to a legitmate 5-6.
Spacing was so short that we had crests well above the bulwarks on
both sides, simulataneously. We were shipping water on the decks. Even
remaining seated required a firm grip on something for support, and
standing would have been out of the question. Quite the ride- I'd
recommend a similar but probably less severe experience for anybody
contemplating the purchase of a cruising boat. All too often the
weather available for sea trial is so calm that you really don't have
a clue how the boat will perform in any sort of seaway.

That's a description of experience in 5-6 footers on the West Coast.
99% of pleasure boaters, including me, won't normally venture out when
prevailing conditions create 5-6 foot windwaves. With this experience
and similar frames of reference, it's hard to visualize 7 footers
springing up unexpectedly with wind speeds of 10-15 knots. Maybe the
laws of physics are different on the East Coast, or maybe the
unfortunate crew with the new boat overestimated the height of the
waves.

Sad event in Scituate
 

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 8:25?am, HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Sep 3, 5:56?am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2007 07:58:24 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I attempted to go out in the little Boston Whaler to help but
quickly determined that I'd probably just add to the problem as another
possible casualty due to the sea state we've had up here for the past few
days. (3-5 footers in close chop).
According to Chuck, those don't exist in the North Atlantic. And we
wouldn't be able to properly judge sea state anyway because "most" of
us are bozos with no experience in judging wave action. :)
Only the Manly Men of the Great Pacific North West can properly judge
sea states. :)
After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread. You being a bright enough guy that you
don't need to resort to the habitual loser's devices of
misrepresenting the remarks of another party to the discussion and
peppering your retort with personal remarks, I'm sure you missed my
comment where I addressed similar insinuations in the other thread.
You either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it while selectively
assembling the evidence to support your accusation.
So here it is again, Tom.
*************************
We seem to be holding two different conversations simultaneously.
It's deja Chuck, all over again. And again. And again.

Is Chuck transmogrifying into...Skipper? Will we hear tales of sudden
onset 25-footers?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hardly. Pay some attention, Krause. I'm claiming that most people
overestimate wave height, not that I'm out braving hurricane force
winds in a 20-some foot trailer boat. My other claim is that it takes
a lot of energy to increase chop from 3 feet to 7 feet, and that the
wind is going to need to be involved. Seems like my remark generated a
lot of wind on this issue, and some of it smells like it's blowing off
a stockyard. :-)


Yes, Chuck, most people overestimate wave height. But not all people.
And since you were not on-site where the original boating mishap that
led to this discussion took place, you don't know what the circumstances
there were, do you?

Sometimes huge waves can be generated without the wind being involved. I
am not saying this is the case in the mishap under discussion. I vaguely
recall a boating mishap in the Kings Bay, Georgia, area, in which there
was no appreciable wind but there were some huge waves.

Tone done yhour condescending attitude, Chuckster. Not only do you not
know most things, you don't even know most things about boating.
Sometimes "stuff happens" out on the water that has no easy explanation.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:07:35 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.

No question that 7 footers do happen on LI Sound from time to time but
not that often, and almost certainly not within the last two weeks.
However, the waves *do* look bigger when you are floating in them and
looking up. I sometimes experience that effect running around in my
too low transomed inflatable in big water.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:15:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

my boating is done on Lake
Ontario, which can be like a pond at noon, and completely insane 4-6 hours
later.

I grew up boating on the eastern end of Lake Ontario and have seen a
few 6 and 7 foot waves from a too small boat. It wasn't pretty and
I'm lucky to be here.

Sad event in Scituate
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:07:35 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.

No question that 7 footers do happen on LI Sound from time to time but
not that often, and almost certainly not within the last two weeks.
However, the waves *do* look bigger when you are floating in them and
looking up. I sometimes experience that effect running around in my
too low transomed inflatable in big water.

Did somebody say low transom?

:-)

Sad event in Scituate
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 15:15:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

my boating is done on Lake
Ontario, which can be like a pond at noon, and completely insane 4-6 hours
later.

I grew up boating on the eastern end of Lake Ontario and have seen a
few 6 and 7 foot waves from a too small boat. It wasn't pretty and
I'm lucky to be here.


What really fun is when the natural waves from from two directions at once,
along with a couple of wakes from pea-brains who pass within 100' of my
boat.

One of these days....I'm tellin' ya...I'm gonna bring a .45-70 out there
with me. "Officer - I swear it looked like a buffalo". :-)

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:49:17 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

When you have seen conditions deteriorate, what are the winds doing?
I don't think the chop just suddenly self-generates to be ornery. :-)

On Long Island Sound it's a combination of wind and tide. In areas of
strong current and an uneven bottom you can get so called "tide rips"
with almost no wind at all. If there is a swell running against the
tide, the size of the rips can double in a short time, rarely
approaching anything like 7 feet however, but frequently 3 or 4.

Sad event in Scituate
 

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:07:35 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.
No question that 7 footers do happen on LI Sound from time to time but
not that often, and almost certainly not within the last two weeks.
However, the waves *do* look bigger when you are floating in them and
looking up. I sometimes experience that effect running around in my
too low transomed inflatable in big water.

Did somebody say low transom?

:-)




Surprising that Wayne doesn't have a high transomed inflatable to go
with his overinflated ego and floating Winnebago.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:21:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread.

Or he was giving you a friendly poke in the ribs looking for a
"reaction".

It's an old north eastern tradition.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:55:53 -0400, HK wrote:

Tone done yhour condescending attitude, Chuckster.

Pot, kettle, black?

I find Chuck to be a keen observer of both boats and human nature
notwithstanding a little overblown hyperbole in the new boat venue.

Sad event in Scituate
 

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:21:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread.

Or he was giving you a friendly poke in the ribs looking for a
"reaction".

It's an old north eastern tradition.


I believe the first part of Chuck's comment, the part that ends with
"crack," describes perfectly how seriously he takes himself and his
"deposits" here, and how badly he takes criticism.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:17:09 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:21:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread.

Or he was giving you a friendly poke in the ribs looking for a
"reaction".

It's an old north eastern tradition.

You know - you just can't have any fun on this newsgroup.

Either somebody is going to take it personally, or change the thread
to something about unions/politics/nasty commentary about the personal
nature of whoever.

It's getting freakin' ridiculous. I thought it was perfectly obvious
I was poking a little fun at Chuck, but nnoooooooooo - it's gotta be
something more than what it was.

Unbelievable.

Damn...

Sad event in Scituate
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:17:09 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:21:39 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

After a moment's thought, I realized that your crap-stuffed comment
was either an unprovoked mean and nasty crack or you hadn't read my
comment in the other thread.
Or he was giving you a friendly poke in the ribs looking for a
"reaction".

It's an old north eastern tradition.

You know - you just can't have any fun on this newsgroup.

Either somebody is going to take it personally, or change the thread
to something about unions/politics/nasty commentary about the personal
nature of whoever.

It's getting freakin' ridiculous. I thought it was perfectly obvious
I was poking a little fun at Chuck, but nnoooooooooo - it's gotta be
something more than what it was.

Unbelievable.

Damn...


It is *required* you take Chuck's boating pronouncements as seriously as
he does. After all, his prose is regularly printed by Canada's leading
publisher of "shopper" guides.

Sad event in Scituate
 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:13:38 -0400, HK wrote:

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 08:07:35 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

I continue to suspect that the folks who
lost (or abandoned) their boat embellished the height of the chop in
the retelling or, in their panic, overestimated the height of the
waves.
No question that 7 footers do happen on LI Sound from time to time but
not that often, and almost certainly not within the last two weeks.
However, the waves *do* look bigger when you are floating in them and
looking up. I sometimes experience that effect running around in my
too low transomed inflatable in big water.

Did somebody say low transom?

:-)




Surprising that Wayne doesn't have a high transomed inflatable to go
with his overinflated ego and floating Winnebago.

Wow, now Wayne's a 'bad guy' too, Harry?

Soon it will be just you and you know who. Everyone else will be
'filtered'!
--
John H

Sad event in Scituate
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
Wow, now Wayne's a 'bad guy' too, Harry?

Soon it will be just you and you know who. Everyone else will be
'filtered'!
--
John H


Oh, yes, Im the great facilitator
Just laughing and gay like a clown
I seem to be what Im not, you see
Im wearing my heart like a crown
facilitating to anyone still around

Sad event in Scituate
 

Don White wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
Wow, now Wayne's a 'bad guy' too, Harry?

Soon it will be just you and you know who. Everyone else will be
'filtered'!
--
John H


Oh, yes, Im the great facilitator
Just laughing and gay like a clown
I seem to be what Im not, you see
Im wearing my heart like a crown
facilitating to anyone still around




Poor Herring. His life here apparently is aimed at getting a rise out of
me. He's been no more successful at that than he's been with his dick.