On Aug 2, 5:33?pm, "JimH" ask wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:27:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the
outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything
besides
minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present
reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs
to
do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway
in
the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers
know
that.

You must be a Tundra owner. ;-)

Of course he is - it's pretty obvious.

He'd rather pay $47,000 for a Tundra that will shake it'self apart
than a Ford which at $34,000 won't.

Heh, heh, heh...

You are wrong on all counts. I don't own a Tundra. However Fords do not
have a
very good reputation for living a long life without major repairs. They
are
crap, plain and simple. Is the Toyota perfect? Far from it. It's still a
hell of
a lot better than any current Ford. To compare them for quality is
laughable.

Really laughable. Total cost of ownership from beginning to end of usable
life
makes the Toyota half the price of the Ford or better. You are a sucker
for
initial low price. PT Barnum knew all about you..

We own a Toyota Highlander and could not be happier with it. Does that
mean the Tundra is of equal quality? Hmm.......

I will be purchasing a pickup in the near future and have narrowed my choice
to the three that were tested in the link I orignally provided. I am not a
Dodge or Nissan fan.

I thought the bed stability test was a good example of the finish quality
between these 3 trucks and was a start for me to compare the 3. Whether
or not a simple tightening of nuts with a socket wrench can fix the problem
highlighted by the test is debatable at this point..........the main point
is that the trucks were tested as rolled out by the factories.

I know brand loyalty is important to some...........I am looking to move
past that.

Perhaps this thread can result in some unbiased reviews based on experiences
with the Ford F-150, Chevy Silveraldo and Toyota Tundra.

Heck, reviews of the Dodge Ram and Nissan Titan pickups are also welcome.
;-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your Highlander is the same basic vehicle as our Lexus 400H, but I'm
assuming yours is not a hybrid. The Highlander/Lexus are very well
made.

I'd like to see Toyota use that six cylinder hybrid platform to build
a light duty pickup. It probably wouldn't be suitable for towing much,
but for schlepping home a couple of sheets of plywood or two dozen 50-
pound bags of fertilizer it would probably work very well. I don't
think the hybrid would be the best choice for launching a boat-
somehow I'd be nervous with two of the four electric motors entirely
submerged when backed down a boat ramp. Maybe it's OK, but then again
maybe not.

"JimH" ask wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:27:02 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:


Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the
outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything
besides
minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present
reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs
to
do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway
in
the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers
know
that.

You must be a Tundra owner. ;-)

Of course he is - it's pretty obvious.

He'd rather pay $47,000 for a Tundra that will shake it'self apart
than a Ford which at $34,000 won't.

Heh, heh, heh...

You are wrong on all counts. I don't own a Tundra. However Fords do not
have a
very good reputation for living a long life without major repairs. They
are
crap, plain and simple. Is the Toyota perfect? Far from it. It's still a
hell of
a lot better than any current Ford. To compare them for quality is
laughable.

Really laughable. Total cost of ownership from beginning to end of usable
life
makes the Toyota half the price of the Ford or better. You are a sucker
for
initial low price. PT Barnum knew all about you..



We own a Toyota Highlander and could not be happier with it. Does that
mean the Tundra is of equal quality? Hmm.......

I will be purchasing a pickup in the near future and have narrowed my
choice to the three that were tested in the link I orignally provided. I
am not a Dodge or Nissan fan.

I thought the bed stability test was a good example of the finish quality
between these 3 trucks and was a start for me to compare the 3. Whether
or not a simple tightening of nuts with a socket wrench can fix the
problem highlighted by the test is debatable at this point..........the
main point is that the trucks were tested as rolled out by the factories.

I know brand loyalty is important to some...........I am looking to move
past that.

Perhaps this thread can result in some unbiased reviews based on
experiences with the Ford F-150, Chevy Silveraldo and Toyota Tundra.

Heck, reviews of the Dodge Ram and Nissan Titan pickups are also welcome.
;-)

Having bought one last year, I tested quite a few and had no real brand
intentions. F150 was actually not on my list to start but here are my 2
cents.

Silverado, nice truck but from where I live they were featureless and
overpriced. Featureless as no creature comforts like temperature controlled
A/C. Seemed like every time I wanted something like leather -- extra...$$$.
So I set my eye on an Avalanche and liked one thing better, the cargo cover
but again too much $$$.

On to Honda Ridgeline. Looks nice, had the creature features and towing
capacity I wanted but setting the seat back I found I was reaching for the
steering wheel. And it was choppy and wandered too much over rougher roads.
I was impressed until I drove it.

I tested the Dodge 1500, was not impressed at some things, body fit,
vibrations. Plus, I have known at least 3 people to buy them and all had
transmission and one had major engine issues as well. Knowing a friend was
very happy with their 3500 Cummings, and it's warranty is impressive with an
Alison tranny, took it for a run. This would be my second or third choice
but for the cost of a Diesel. Didn't want to kick the extra 10gs.

Took a Tacoma and Tundra for a ride. Tacoma was too small inside. Tundra,
didn't like the tiny feel and thought the interior was too basic for the
price.

Didn't test the Nissan Titan, after my 1995 Pathfinder I suspect they are
over rated. I didn't look as the price tag just seemed to high. The dealer
quoted a price in the diesel range of Ford and Dodge but without the diesel
and features.

I then looked at a Ford Ranger, my wife though small was better. Loved it
except for head/leg room was marginal and for towing capacity it was only
just over what I needed. A nice "small" truck. Since we were there, we
took a F150 out. Got hooked right there. But they didn't have the Lariat
in the color I wanted. So I looked around, as I don't buy vehicles unseen.

Got a call a month later, plus a discount and "family" plan I got a real
good deal. I then took it for a test drive and bounced a curb (no damage).
It took it real well. I returned to the dealership and said "mark that one
as sold".

My only regrets is perhaps I should have looked closer at F250, F350 or
perhaps a Dodge 3500/Cummings. But I am very happy with my F150. Has the
features I like, serves me well and I have had it in places where few trucks
will go, let alone get out. Have had no problems with it.

But don't go by just this or others. I would suggest first you figure out
first why are you are buying a truck? Some things to consider:

1) Are you towing? I recommend getting a truck rated TWICE what your
planning to pull. Why you need for a fifth wheel and what you need for
"city" delivery of appliances are two different beasts. This way you won't
wobble overloaded or puffing up a hill at 25mph. Don't overload it! But no
need for buying more too much more power/options than you need either.

2) Is this a "city" vehicle of a "country" vehicle? If it is for use in the
city only, or your always on flat paved roads in Florida with little snow a
4x4 is of little value and is just something else to break. But if your
pulling up a boat on a 30% grade of gravel/mud or doing backwoods BC in the
winter a good 4x4 is essential.

3) How many miles/time are you going to spend in it? If it is a lot, get a
nice stereo/CD, temperature control, leather, cup holders etc.

4) Passenger capacity. I didn't need it, but got the full back seat option.
Comes in handy to fold up the seats and use it for storage that you can lock
stuff in as the back of the truck isn't as environmentally controlled
at -25F or 100F.

5) The condition of the roads mater. I could be wrong here but have always
favoured bigger and wider tires as the roads around where I live are the
pits (pun intended).

Where I live, it seems like 1/2 the trucks are Ford 150/250/350 with the
rest sharing the remainder. Seems like GM/Chevy and Dodge 3500 are jostling
for a distant second. I don't see cattle farmers driving Tundras, Titans,
Ridglines and smaller trucks...

Be sure to ask yourself before you buy, "why am I buying a truck and what
are others predominantly buying for the same purpose?".

On Aug 2, 7:14 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:57:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:30 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

FORD RULES!!!

WHOO HOO!!!

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything besides minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs to do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway in the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers know
that.

So.. is it a guy with a wrench or advanced engineering that make the
thing a limp as JSB's.... ??

You can't have it both ways you know. Besides your Mighty Oak
reference is useless, different tool, different job, different
enginering. My hammer has an oak handle, and if it was a limp as that
truck body, I would not get much work done. Personally, ladder frame
and all, If I am crawling though the trails, or even carrying a
generator across the lot, I want a stiff frame, I want to know exactly
where the tires are all the time.

We used to do a lot or four wheeling, mostly woods and trails (no
sand) and the last thing I would want is that kind of ride. The ford
looked like Callaway active suspension there, you could almost drink a
cup of coffee.

BTW, I like Jeeps, and almost anything GMC. Dad is a Ford man and his
1983 ran till we sold it in 94 to a guy for a farm truck, still going
strong, er, the part that's not rusted

On Aug 2, 7:14 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:57:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:30 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

FORD RULES!!!

WHOO HOO!!!

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything besides minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs to do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway in the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers know
that.

Your way off on that one. Ford's trucks are well known for being able
to take a beating, always have been. And lasting longer than anyone
else. Try beating the Toyota the same way, and you will end up getting
to know their service manager on a first name basis. Take a look
around, if the Toyota is so good, why are their none in any large
fleets that see heavy use? The fleet buyers know what Consumer Reports
doesn't. Their concerned about service life, value and cost of
ownership, their not concerned about resale values that are based on
someone's preception, they have to live in the real world, their jobs
depend on it. The Toyota's just fine for a home owner's trips to Home
Depot, or the guy that never hauls anything, but if it's going to get
abused on a regular basis, it'll end up a very expensive low milage
junker.

My last Ford van I bought about 15 years ago, it was a fleet van, my
brother in law was the fleet director, it had over 150,000 miles on it
(odomiter didn't work), it was about 7 or 8 years old. We did
everything with it, hauled boats, fish, a load of copper, building
materials, you name it, it did it. We didn't pay much for it, I
figured I'd just drive it into the ground. I changed the oil once,
never tuned it, rarely added oil to it. Ran that thing for 10 years,
the body had real bad rust (probably from hoseing it out after hauling
fish), God only knows how many miles it had on it, it just refused to
die. I finally junked it when the rust got so bad you had to watch
where you walked in the back. Motor ran fine, transmission was perfect
when I turned it in. The junk yard guy told me their wasn't much need
for the engines and transmissions, they never go. My brother in law
said that was the reason they bought only Ford vans and trucks, they
held up. He said they wouldn't even think about any other brand.

You've got to go with what you know!

"Capt John" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 2, 7:14 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:57:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:30 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

FORD RULES!!!

WHOO HOO!!!

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the
outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything besides
minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present
reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs to
do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway in
the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers
know
that.

Your way off on that one. Ford's trucks are well known for being able
to take a beating, always have been. And lasting longer than anyone
else. Try beating the Toyota the same way, and you will end up getting
to know their service manager on a first name basis. Take a look
around, if the Toyota is so good, why are their none in any large
fleets that see heavy use? The fleet buyers know what Consumer Reports
doesn't. Their concerned about service life, value and cost of
ownership, their not concerned about resale values that are based on
someone's preception, they have to live in the real world, their jobs
depend on it. The Toyota's just fine for a home owner's trips to Home
Depot, or the guy that never hauls anything, but if it's going to get
abused on a regular basis, it'll end up a very expensive low milage
junker.

You forgot to post the source of your data for your claims about Toyota
trucks. Please do so right now.

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:43:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Capt John" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 2, 7:14 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:57:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:30 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

FORD RULES!!!

WHOO HOO!!!

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the
outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything besides
minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present
reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs to
do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway in
the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers
know
that.

Your way off on that one. Ford's trucks are well known for being able
to take a beating, always have been. And lasting longer than anyone
else. Try beating the Toyota the same way, and you will end up getting
to know their service manager on a first name basis. Take a look
around, if the Toyota is so good, why are their none in any large
fleets that see heavy use? The fleet buyers know what Consumer Reports
doesn't. Their concerned about service life, value and cost of
ownership, their not concerned about resale values that are based on
someone's preception, they have to live in the real world, their jobs
depend on it. The Toyota's just fine for a home owner's trips to Home
Depot, or the guy that never hauls anything, but if it's going to get
abused on a regular basis, it'll end up a very expensive low milage
junker.

You forgot to post the source of your data for your claims about Toyota
trucks. Please do so right now.


Weren't you the one who said to take the truck talk elsewhere, which got
you the approval of HK?

Now, are you implying, by your request, that Toyota trucks are *not* good
for trips to Home Depot?
--
John H

"John H." wrote in message
news
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:43:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Capt John" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Aug 2, 7:14 pm, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:57:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:30 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

FORD RULES!!!

WHOO HOO!!!

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the
outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything
besides
minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present
reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs
to
do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway
in
the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers
know
that.

Your way off on that one. Ford's trucks are well known for being able
to take a beating, always have been. And lasting longer than anyone
else. Try beating the Toyota the same way, and you will end up getting
to know their service manager on a first name basis. Take a look
around, if the Toyota is so good, why are their none in any large
fleets that see heavy use? The fleet buyers know what Consumer Reports
doesn't. Their concerned about service life, value and cost of
ownership, their not concerned about resale values that are based on
someone's preception, they have to live in the real world, their jobs
depend on it. The Toyota's just fine for a home owner's trips to Home
Depot, or the guy that never hauls anything, but if it's going to get
abused on a regular basis, it'll end up a very expensive low milage
junker.

You forgot to post the source of your data for your claims about Toyota
trucks. Please do so right now.


Weren't you the one who said to take the truck talk elsewhere, which got
you the approval of HK?

Now, are you implying, by your request, that Toyota trucks are *not* good
for trips to Home Depot?
--
John H

I just want the source of data to back up the various claims he made in the
paragraph beginning with "Your way off...".

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:57:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing

wrote:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:01:30 -0400, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...33643p1%2Ehtml

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

FORD RULES!!!

WHOO HOO!!!

Anybody with a socket wrench and five minutes could easily reverse the
outcome
of that dummied up test.

When Ford's start regularly going 200,000+ miles without anything besides
minor
routine maintenance, please let me know. That is NOT their present
reputation.

What exactly does pickup box bounce indicate, anyway? Maybe Ford needs to
do
some homework. It may be an advantage for the mighty oak tree to sway in
the
wind, rather than standing firm and breaking. Most competent engineers
know
that.

I don't think so. That Tundra was looking like it was going to come
apart...

I know which one I want when I am hauling my 1500lb of boat on a Canadian
road... F150. Seen to many dead Dodges, I guess they didn't test them. I
did with the doors... so I went Ford. This makes a big difference when you
hit some washboard road....

On Aug 2, 6:01 pm, "JimH" ask wrote:
Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

Hey, does anyone have a Chilton or Mitchell for a 2001 Chevy Blazer. I
could really use a picture of the steering colum assembly. I think
there is a part broken in there (a sort of rack) and I need to know
how to get to it without getting my head blown off by the airbag! And
before anyone yells at me, I will not start without a map, and I have
the right tools as I am a retired GM tech. Just never worked around an
airbag, makin' me a little nervous. But if you got a manual, a
scanner, and a little spare time, please emil me at
justwaitafrekinminute at gmai...........com

On Aug 8, 10:03 am, wrote:
On Aug 2, 6:01 pm, "JimH" ask wrote:

Chevy Silverado v. Toyota Tundra v. Ford F-150

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zShwG...%2F%2Fwww%2Emo...

http://tinyurl.com/24exwz

Hey, does anyone have a Chilton or Mitchell for a 2001 Chevy Blazer.

Cancel that, went outside and started taking it apart and found it was
the new (3 months) ignition switch. Maybe not set up correctly, but I
popped it out and all the tumblers and guts dropped out and the shield
that holds them in was twisted out of place like it got caught up in
there somehow. Anyway, nother 100 bucks I don't have to spend on
summer...