Calif Bill wrote:
"F.H." wrote in message
news:yr_ci.1330$AR5.308@trnddc06...
trainfan1 wrote:
F.H. wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 16, 12:27 pm, trainfan1 wrote:
Tom Adkins wrote:
Frank from Deeetroit wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
news Steve Barker wrote:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0174.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0175.jpg
the 429/460 has valve covers about twice as wide as these and more
than 4 bolts in them. These valve covers are small block chevy.
Sure looks that way.
Did Grey Marine ever use Chevrolet heads on a proprietary block?
This would be the only way to get the distributor drive gear into
the
front of the engine as I see it.
That distributor is right where they are on the FE blocks. I can't
think of any common wide block that shares bore spacing &/or bolt
patterns with the SBC.
Anyone?
Rob
Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front of
the
engine facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and belts
look
like they are mounted on the back of the engine and the drive shaft
would be connected to the front of the engine.
Aaaahhhhh, for reverse rotation.
The hard way.

It's easier actually to run the engine backwards.

But this is a good explanation, except again the pics are too small to
see if that is a timing cover or a bell housing(starter & all on
flywheel) behind the water pump.

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Well, not really. The reason Chris Craft did that was to have the
flywheel to the front of the boat, so they could get a lower profile,
and clearence for the angle of the engine, seeing it was hooked
directly to the trans, and the prop shaft were all in line with no u-
joints or carrier bearings. Or, thats the way it was described to me.
For most newer boats that in line set up is not important. Most
everyone now days uses u-joints and a drive shaft.
What size boat are you talking about?

All the Tournament, Tournament style, & Wakeboard inboards, direct &
V-drive, have no u-joints.

Rob
My last boat was a 24' Day Cruiser with a 460 Ford and a Berkley Jet
Drive. The jet was connected to the engine via a drive shaft. Before
that I raced flat bottoms. Never saw one without a driveshaft connecting
the enging to the V-Drive. In fact, most of the driveshafts were fairly
long, by that I mean 3' or so. Boats like this:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9705/claimzl2.jpg

My jet boat has a 10" drive shaft. Is a coupling to the flywheel a
U-joint, a short adapter to a 2nd U-joint and a splined coupling to the jet
input shaft.

U-joints or Poly isolation couplings?

What kind of "Jet Boat"?

Rob

F.H. wrote:
trainfan1 wrote:
F.H. wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 16, 12:27 pm, trainfan1 wrote:
Tom Adkins wrote:
Frank from Deeetroit wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
news Steve Barker wrote:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0174.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0175.jpg
the 429/460 has valve covers about twice as wide as these and more
than 4 bolts in them. These valve covers are small block chevy.
Sure looks that way.
Did Grey Marine ever use Chevrolet heads on a proprietary
block? This would be the only way to get the distributor drive
gear into the
front of the engine as I see it.
That distributor is right where they are on the FE blocks. I can't
think of any common wide block that shares bore spacing &/or bolt
patterns with the SBC.
Anyone?
Rob
Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front of
the
engine facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and belts
look
like they are mounted on the back of the engine and the drive shaft
would be connected to the front of the engine.
Aaaahhhhh, for reverse rotation.
The hard way.

It's easier actually to run the engine backwards.

But this is a good explanation, except again the pics are too small to
see if that is a timing cover or a bell housing(starter & all on
flywheel) behind the water pump.

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Well, not really. The reason Chris Craft did that was to have the
flywheel to the front of the boat, so they could get a lower profile,
and clearence for the angle of the engine, seeing it was hooked
directly to the trans, and the prop shaft were all in line with no u-
joints or carrier bearings. Or, thats the way it was described to me.

For most newer boats that in line set up is not important. Most
everyone now days uses u-joints and a drive shaft.

What size boat are you talking about?

All the Tournament, Tournament style, & Wakeboard inboards, direct &
V-drive, have no u-joints.

Rob

My last boat was a 24' Day Cruiser with a 460 Ford and a Berkley Jet
Drive. The jet was connected to the engine via a drive shaft. Before
that I raced flat bottoms. Never saw one without a driveshaft
connecting the enging to the V-Drive. In fact, most of the driveshafts
were fairly long, by that I mean 3' or so. Boats like this:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9705/claimzl2.jpg

All the Tournament, Tournament style, & Wakeboard inboards, direct &
V-drive, have no u-joints. Just shafts.

Rob

I considered that option also. But had never seen it in person.

--
Steve Barker







"Frank from Deeetroit" wrote in message
...

Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front of the
engine facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and belts look like
they are mounted on the back of the engine and the drive shaft would be
connected to the front of the engine.

trainfan1 wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"F.H." wrote in message
news:yr_ci.1330$AR5.308@trnddc06...
trainfan1 wrote:
F.H. wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 16, 12:27 pm, trainfan1 wrote:
Tom Adkins wrote:
Frank from Deeetroit wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
news Steve Barker wrote:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0174.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0175.jpg
the 429/460 has valve covers about twice as wide as these and
more
than 4 bolts in them. These valve covers are small block chevy.
Sure looks that way.
Did Grey Marine ever use Chevrolet heads on a proprietary
block? This would be the only way to get the distributor drive
gear into the
front of the engine as I see it.
That distributor is right where they are on the FE blocks. I
can't
think of any common wide block that shares bore spacing &/or bolt
patterns with the SBC.
Anyone?
Rob
Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front
of the
engine facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and
belts look
like they are mounted on the back of the engine and the drive
shaft
would be connected to the front of the engine.
Aaaahhhhh, for reverse rotation.
The hard way.

It's easier actually to run the engine backwards.

But this is a good explanation, except again the pics are too
small to
see if that is a timing cover or a bell housing(starter & all on
flywheel) behind the water pump.

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Well, not really. The reason Chris Craft did that was to have the
flywheel to the front of the boat, so they could get a lower profile,
and clearence for the angle of the engine, seeing it was hooked
directly to the trans, and the prop shaft were all in line with no u-
joints or carrier bearings. Or, thats the way it was described to
me.
For most newer boats that in line set up is not important. Most
everyone now days uses u-joints and a drive shaft.
What size boat are you talking about?

All the Tournament, Tournament style, & Wakeboard inboards, direct &
V-drive, have no u-joints.

Rob
My last boat was a 24' Day Cruiser with a 460 Ford and a Berkley Jet
Drive. The jet was connected to the engine via a drive shaft.
Before that I raced flat bottoms. Never saw one without a driveshaft
connecting the enging to the V-Drive. In fact, most of the
driveshafts were fairly long, by that I mean 3' or so. Boats like this:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9705/claimzl2.jpg

My jet boat has a 10" drive shaft. Is a coupling to the flywheel a
U-joint, a short adapter to a 2nd U-joint and a splined coupling to
the jet input shaft.

U-joints or Poly isolation couplings?

What kind of "Jet Boat"?

Rob

A jet drive is basically a water pump that pulls water in from the lake
and powers the boat forward by thrusting it out the back of the boat.
The jet nozzle turns to steer the boat.

http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTip...mp-removal.htm
http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/principles.htm
http://www.berkeleyjet.com/

F.H. wrote:
trainfan1 wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"F.H." wrote in message
news:yr_ci.1330$AR5.308@trnddc06...
trainfan1 wrote:
F.H. wrote:
Tim wrote:
On Jun 16, 12:27 pm, trainfan1 wrote:
Tom Adkins wrote:
Frank from Deeetroit wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
news Steve Barker wrote:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0174.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...c/IMG_0175.jpg
the 429/460 has valve covers about twice as wide as these
and more
than 4 bolts in them. These valve covers are small block
chevy.
Sure looks that way.
Did Grey Marine ever use Chevrolet heads on a proprietary
block? This would be the only way to get the distributor
drive gear into the
front of the engine as I see it.
That distributor is right where they are on the FE blocks. I
can't
think of any common wide block that shares bore spacing &/or
bolt
patterns with the SBC.
Anyone?
Rob
Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front
of the
engine facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and
belts look
like they are mounted on the back of the engine and the drive
shaft
would be connected to the front of the engine.
Aaaahhhhh, for reverse rotation.
The hard way.

It's easier actually to run the engine backwards.

But this is a good explanation, except again the pics are too
small to
see if that is a timing cover or a bell housing(starter & all on
flywheel) behind the water pump.

Rob- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Well, not really. The reason Chris Craft did that was to have the
flywheel to the front of the boat, so they could get a lower
profile,
and clearence for the angle of the engine, seeing it was hooked
directly to the trans, and the prop shaft were all in line with
no u-
joints or carrier bearings. Or, thats the way it was described
to me.
For most newer boats that in line set up is not important. Most
everyone now days uses u-joints and a drive shaft.
What size boat are you talking about?

All the Tournament, Tournament style, & Wakeboard inboards, direct
& V-drive, have no u-joints.

Rob
My last boat was a 24' Day Cruiser with a 460 Ford and a Berkley Jet
Drive. The jet was connected to the engine via a drive shaft.
Before that I raced flat bottoms. Never saw one without a
driveshaft connecting the enging to the V-Drive. In fact, most of
the driveshafts were fairly long, by that I mean 3' or so. Boats
like this:

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9705/claimzl2.jpg

My jet boat has a 10" drive shaft. Is a coupling to the flywheel a
U-joint, a short adapter to a 2nd U-joint and a splined coupling to
the jet input shaft.

U-joints or Poly isolation couplings?

What kind of "Jet Boat"?

Rob

A jet drive is basically a water pump that pulls water in from the lake
and powers the boat forward by thrusting it out the back of the boat.
The jet nozzle turns to steer the boat.

I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats. I'm looking for the brand -
Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.

http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTip...mp-removal.htm
http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/principles.htm
http://www.berkeleyjet.com/

"The (Berkeley pump) direct-drive shaft has a thrust and tail bearing.
The impeller is fixed to the shaft and completely enclosed."

But still no U-joints. What am I missing here besides u-joints?

Rob

trainfan1 wrote:

I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.

I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others as
well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
*avoid* wrenching. I do seem to recall a spline back there and I
know that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.
What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
shaft?


I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.

You mean you're in the market?

F.H. wrote:
trainfan1 wrote:

I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.

I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others as
well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
*avoid* wrenching. I do seem to recall a spline back there and I
know that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.

Engine mounts are on adjustable screw mounts / trunnions.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...dia/8-0008.jpg
http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/4417224.jpg

Alignment is done with a feeler gauge at the output flange and the
propshaft flange. It's fun. No u-joints.


What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
shaft?

"Rubber Damper":

http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_206.gif


It goes inside the two halves of a jet-drive coupler:

http://www.legdrag.com/images/ADA%20800%20Couplers.jpg
http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_216.jpg

for isolation & allowing for slight misalignment . No u-joints.



I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.

You mean you're in the market?

You mean there are none?

Rob

"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
F.H. wrote:
trainfan1 wrote:

I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.

I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others as
well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
*avoid* wrenching. I do seem to recall a spline back there and I know
that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.

Engine mounts are on adjustable screw mounts / trunnions.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...dia/8-0008.jpg
http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/4417224.jpg

Alignment is done with a feeler gauge at the output flange and the
propshaft flange. It's fun. No u-joints.


What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
shaft?

"Rubber Damper":

http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_206.gif

It goes inside the two halves of a jet-drive coupler:

http://www.legdrag.com/images/ADA%20800%20Couplers.jpg
http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_216.jpg

for isolation & allowing for slight misalignment . No u-joints.



I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.

You mean you're in the market?

You mean there are none?

Rob

Mine is a Jetcraft 21' Aluminum jet boat. With a 3 stage Kodiak pump.
Original power was a Ford 351W now a 350 MPI Chevy based engine. Has a
Spicer coupler with 2 U-joints. U-joints must always be used in pairs
otherwise you get a speed change on the output shaft during rotation. All
the Aluminum jet boats use basically the same setup, except for the engine
forward design and they use a jackshaft. We also adjust the engine, so
there is very little miss alignment. The splines are so if there is any
flex the shaft can move as well as side benefit easy way to pull the shaft
if needed.

Calif Bill wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
F.H. wrote:
trainfan1 wrote:

I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.
I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others as
well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
*avoid* wrenching. I do seem to recall a spline back there and I know
that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.
Engine mounts are on adjustable screw mounts / trunnions.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...dia/8-0008.jpg
http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/4417224.jpg

Alignment is done with a feeler gauge at the output flange and the
propshaft flange. It's fun. No u-joints.


What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
shaft?
"Rubber Damper":

http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_206.gif

It goes inside the two halves of a jet-drive coupler:

http://www.legdrag.com/images/ADA%20800%20Couplers.jpg
http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_216.jpg

for isolation & allowing for slight misalignment . No u-joints.


I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.
You mean you're in the market?
You mean there are none?

Rob

Mine is a Jetcraft 21' Aluminum jet boat. With a 3 stage Kodiak pump.
Original power was a Ford 351W now a 350 MPI Chevy based engine. Has a
Spicer coupler with 2 U-joints. U-joints must always be used in pairs
otherwise you get a speed change on the output shaft during rotation. All
the Aluminum jet boats use basically the same setup, except for the engine
forward design and they use a jackshaft. We also adjust the engine, so
there is very little miss alignment. The splines are so if there is any
flex the shaft can move as well as side benefit easy way to pull the shaft
if needed.



I think that's what I'm looking for, & that makes sense in an aluminum
river boat. I've never seen U-joints in a Berkeley or Jacuzzi sport
type boat. The pump is essentially bolted up right to the flywheel
isolator.

How do the 351W & 350 SBC compare performance wise? The 351 must have
been about 240-260hp, the MPI Chevy is ~300? How much work was the swap?

Rob

"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
Calif Bill wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
F.H. wrote:
trainfan1 wrote:

I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.
I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others
as well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
*avoid* wrenching. I do seem to recall a spline back there and I
know that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.
Engine mounts are on adjustable screw mounts / trunnions.

http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...dia/8-0008.jpg
http://marineengineparts.com/shopsit...ia/4417224.jpg

Alignment is done with a feeler gauge at the output flange and the
propshaft flange. It's fun. No u-joints.


What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
shaft?
"Rubber Damper":

http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_206.gif

It goes inside the two halves of a jet-drive coupler:

http://www.legdrag.com/images/ADA%20800%20Couplers.jpg
http://www.pronautica.com.br/exporta...%20003_216.jpg

for isolation & allowing for slight misalignment . No u-joints.


I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.
You mean you're in the market?
You mean there are none?

Rob

Mine is a Jetcraft 21' Aluminum jet boat. With a 3 stage Kodiak pump.
Original power was a Ford 351W now a 350 MPI Chevy based engine. Has a
Spicer coupler with 2 U-joints. U-joints must always be used in pairs
otherwise you get a speed change on the output shaft during rotation.
All the Aluminum jet boats use basically the same setup, except for the
engine forward design and they use a jackshaft. We also adjust the
engine, so there is very little miss alignment. The splines are so if
there is any flex the shaft can move as well as side benefit easy way to
pull the shaft if needed.

I think that's what I'm looking for, & that makes sense in an aluminum
river boat. I've never seen U-joints in a Berkeley or Jacuzzi sport type
boat. The pump is essentially bolted up right to the flywheel isolator.

How do the 351W & 350 SBC compare performance wise? The 351 must have
been about 240-260hp, the MPI Chevy is ~300? How much work was the swap?

Rob

Performance wise, the 350 is much better. Have to be careful that I do not
cavitate the pump on stratup. Going to try a couple different impellers
when I can borrow same. At $4-800 impeller, do not want to buy and try.
The Chevy is 330 hp. the swap is really easy. I went from a 1991 Kodiak
351 to a 2004 Kodiak Marine motor. Has the same electrical plug for both.
So no wiring changes. The Ford has a different motor mount location on both
sides. The Starboard side is close enough that I just drilled the motor
mount bracket for the new mount, and had to move the Port mount forward
about 3". Since it is an MPI, I drilled the tank and added another port for
the injection return line, but since then replaced the fuel tank with a new
tank that has the return plumbed in. Bell housing in the rear is the same
mount for either engine. If I had gone with a different source for the 350
MPI, may have required some extra electrical and rear engine mount work.