|
Gas prices and power boating
Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel
dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? |
Gas prices and power boating
On 29 Apr 2007 06:06:49 -0700, wf3h wrote:
Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? That's a good point. Personally, I think last year the market tested $3/g and pretty quickly backed off that because demand dropped significantly. They are certainly going to try it again this year, but I can't see it moving up much past $3/g again without demand dropping. After the 75% runup over the past two years (with Katrina being the excuse), the average joe on the street isn't going to have much left over after going to work and paying for food, the mortgage and other expenses. It's interesting that some in the professional services industries, like orthodontic dentists, dentists and even doctors are seeing a decrease in their gross incomes because the average schmoe can't afford a co-pay even. Trades people are even feeling it because their prices have had to increase due to energy and compensation insurance increases. You have to remember that the real rate of inflation this year (including food/energy/services) is about 13% and it could go higher. That alone is certainly going to impact boating, never mind fuel costs. And now, speaking of boating, I'm done and gone. Gonig out to get some drive time on a twin diesel Topaz. Gotta learn the ins and outs of this twin inboard stuff if I'm going to buy Eisboch's Navigator. :) [1] WHOO HOO!!! [1] Not that I'm going to buy Eisboch's Navigator, but in this life and with me in charge, you never know. :) |
Gas prices and power boating
wf3h wrote:
Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. |
Gas prices and power boating
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. |
Gas prices and power boating
Harry Krause wrote:
wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Does Yo-Ho and your lobster boat have small engines or qualify as a small boats? |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 6:06?am, wf3h wrote:
Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? http://www.marinemax.com/investor/ People will just "stop boating" at different rates. It's apparent that some already have, or are delaying the initial purchase or trade-up from a present vessel. Reluctance of new participants to get into boating, due to fuel prices or other concerns, hampers the resale market and inhibits the ability of current owners to upgrade. Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. Wally Lunchbucket was never going to buy a $250,000 boat, but the Wally's buy a lot of boats in the $35-100,000 category and often budget very carefully to make the monthly payments. The vast majority of people are "payment buyers", and make decisions whether to buy or not buy a major item based less on the price than on whether the monthly payment is affordable. The average citizen considers petroleum products almost as essential as food or shelter. What else would most of us continue to buy if the price shot up 50% in 90 days? Darn little, IMO. When the price of this essential commodity goes through the roof, the money to buy it has to come from somewhere. Unfortunately, it will frequently come from folks cutting way back on their boating or choosing not to become boaters in the first place. IMO, take a careful look around. We're in the middle of an important shift in recreational norms in the Western world that will render high fuel consuming items obsolete. The guys in the big boats? They can afford the fuel. |
Gas prices and power boating
Harry Krause wrote:
wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Does this mean you are selling the 36' Zimmerman like Lobsta' boat? |
Gas prices and power boating
On 29 Apr 2007 08:39:57 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: Wally Lunchbucket was never going to buy a $250,000 boat, but the Wally's buy a lot of boats in the $35-100,000 category and often budget very carefully to make the monthly payments. The vast majority of people are "payment buyers", and make decisions whether to buy or not buy a major item based less on the price than on whether the monthly payment is affordable. Interesting. Maybe because I only spent about half a year on the west coast I never met a Wally Lunchbucket. Around here I know plenty of guys called Joe Sixpack. Ever heard of him? --Vic |
Gas prices and power boating
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Apr 29, 6:06?am, wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? http://www.marinemax.com/investor/ People will just "stop boating" at different rates. It's apparent that some already have, or are delaying the initial purchase or trade-up from a present vessel. Reluctance of new participants to get into boating, due to fuel prices or other concerns, hampers the resale market and inhibits the ability of current owners to upgrade. Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. You don't need a $50,000 truck to haul around many 18-21' boats. I towed a nice 19-footer with a small V6 Ford truck, and there are plenty of smaller boats available. |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 9:03�am, Vic Smith wrote:
On 29 Apr 2007 08:39:57 -0700, Chuck Gould wrote: Wally Lunchbucket was never going to buy a $250,000 boat, but the Wally's buy a lot of boats in the $35-100,000 category and often budget very carefully to make the monthly payments. The vast majority of people are "payment buyers", and make decisions whether to buy or not buy a major item based less on the price than on whether the monthly payment is affordable. Interesting. *Maybe because I only spent about half a year on the west coast I never met a Wally Lunchbucket. Around here I know plenty of guys called Joe Sixpack. Ever heard of him? --Vic Joe is Wally's kissin' cousin. 'Cept of course Joe and Wally don't kiss- at least not in public unless they're in San Francisco or Seattle. :-) Wally's brothers, Joe and Johnny Lunchbucket are probably mentioned more frequently than Wally. Disheartening news is that with fuel dock prices already in the $4.50 range and headed for $5, none of the Lunchbucket brothers will be racing out to buy a new boat anytime soon. That impacts everybody who owns a boat and hopes to sell it someday as well as all of the folks who sell new or used boats for a living. |
Gas prices and power boating
Don White wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. It would also help if our "Energy Policy" hadn't been dictated by a U.S. vice president connected to the oil industry and a U.S. president who wasn't dumber than a fence post, but... |
Gas prices and power boating
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Apr 29, 9:03�am, Vic Smith wrote: On 29 Apr 2007 08:39:57 -0700, Chuck Gould wrote: Wally Lunchbucket was never going to buy a $250,000 boat, but the Wally's buy a lot of boats in the $35-100,000 category and often budget very carefully to make the monthly payments. The vast majority of people are "payment buyers", and make decisions whether to buy or not buy a major item based less on the price than on whether the monthly payment is affordable. Interesting. �Maybe because I only spent about half a year on the west coast I never met a Wally Lunchbucket. Around here I know plenty of guys called Joe Sixpack. Ever heard of him? --Vic Joe is Wally's kissin' cousin. 'Cept of course Joe and Wally don't kiss- at least not in public unless they're in San Francisco or Seattle. :-) Wally's brothers, Joe and Johnny Lunchbucket are probably mentioned more frequently than Wally. Disheartening news is that with fuel dock prices already in the $4.50 range and headed for $5, none of the Lunchbucket brothers will be racing out to buy a new boat anytime soon. That impacts everybody who owns a boat and hopes to sell it someday as well as all of the folks who sell new or used boats for a living. Please...the Lunchbucket family has been working at Wal-Mart and 7-11 as a result of the Bush Administration's eagerness to export U.S. manufacturing jobs to the Pacific Rim and Mexico and Central and South America. |
Gas prices and power boating
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote: On Apr 29, 6:06?am, wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? http://www.marinemax.com/investor/ People will just "stop boating" at different rates. It's apparent that some already have, or are delaying the initial purchase or trade-up from a present vessel. Reluctance of new participants to get into boating, due to fuel prices or other concerns, hampers the resale market and inhibits the ability of current owners to upgrade. Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. You don't need a $50,000 truck to haul around many 18-21' boats. I towed a nice 19-footer with a small V6 Ford truck, and there are plenty of smaller boats available. The trick would be to keep the total towed package at 3000 lbs or less. Even mid-sized SUVs should be able to handle that... eg Toyota Rav 4 with V6 or the Highlander. |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 12:55 pm, "Don White" wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Chuck Gould wrote: On Apr 29, 6:06?am, wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? http://www.marinemax.com/investor/ People will just "stop boating" at different rates. It's apparent that some already have, or are delaying the initial purchase or trade-up from a present vessel. Reluctance of new participants to get into boating, due to fuel prices or other concerns, hampers the resale market and inhibits the ability of current owners to upgrade. Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. You don't need a $50,000 truck to haul around many 18-21' boats. I towed a nice 19-footer with a small V6 Ford truck, and there are plenty of smaller boats available. The trick would be to keep the total towed package at 3000 lbs or less. Even mid-sized SUVs should be able to handle that... eg Toyota Rav 4 with V6 or the Highlander.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - A Rav 4 might tow three thousand lbs, but I would not want to have to stop it fast. |
Gas prices and power boating
|
Gas prices and power boating
This is an unbelievable statement. Ground Control to Major Chuck! Ground
Control to Major Chuck! You're out of control.... You can pick up a used PU for a grand or 2, throw a couple grand into it to make it reliable, and paint it to match the boat to boot for under 6K total. Classic example of the SUV Mentality permeating our society. Big brand new 50K truck.... With the cost of new trailer boats in the 22-25 ft range at 70k or more and dock gas at $4.50 with no end in site, Just who do you expect is stupid (and rich) enough to fork over 120k (that's unfinanced) to do the trailer boat thing? Buy a brand new truck to tow the boat? Come ON..... JR Chuck Gould wrote: Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 8:53 am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
And now, speaking of boating, I'm done and gone. Gonig out to get some drive time on a twin diesel Topaz. Gotta learn the ins and outs of this twin inboard stuff if I'm going to buy Eisboch's Navigator. :) [1] WHOO HOO!!! [1] Not that I'm going to buy Eisboch's Navigator, but in this life and with me in charge, you never know. :) Don't you just love joy riding esecially at someone elses expense? HA! |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 11:28 am, Harry Krause wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote: On Apr 29, 6:06?am, wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? http://www.marinemax.com/investor/ People will just "stop boating" at different rates. It's apparent that some already have, or are delaying the initial purchase or trade-up from a present vessel. Reluctance of new participants to get into boating, due to fuel prices or other concerns, hampers the resale market and inhibits the ability of current owners to upgrade. Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. You don't need a $50,000 truck to haul around many 18-21' boats. I towed a nice 19-footer with a small V6 Ford truck, and there are plenty of smaller boats available.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - the last couple years, i towed my 18 ft Chris craft runabout back and forth to the lake with an '89 Merc. Grand Marquis. towing it ogt 15 mpg. the boat with it's 4 cyl chevy engine provided loads of fun on less than 10 gal of gas. this year, I'll tow the 23 ft Marquis cuddie to the lake w/ a 91 Grand Marquis station wagon. same drive train as a ford half ton truck of the same year. it will do fine. and probably even make betterr towing milage due to the fact the 23 ft'r is on a dual axle trailer that even though th boat is heavier will pull easier. I ahve already found that out. now the 23 is much heavier than the Chris, and has a 350 v-8. But I think it will probably use more fuel than it's smaller counterpart, but the bigger comfort and smoother ride will more than make up the difference. even with towing, I've never spent over a hundred bucks a day at the lake for fuel, And I might be suprised, but even with the larger craft, I still don't think I will. |
Gas prices and power boating
"John H." wrote in message ... That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Why so interested? He offered you a great price on the Parker last year and all you did was a virtual 'kick the tires' routine. |
Gas prices and power boating
Don White wrote:
"John H." wrote in message ... That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Why so interested? He offered you a great price on the Parker last year and all you did was a virtual 'kick the tires' routine. Herring is one of the NATO boys: No Action, Talk Only. |
Gas prices and power boating
John H. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:09:31 GMT, "Don White" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Funny that donnie boy would say that, considering the amount of oil the US gets from Canada |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 13:53:25 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote: On 29 Apr 2007 06:06:49 -0700, wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? That's a good point. Personally, I think last year the market tested $3/g and pretty quickly backed off that because demand dropped significantly. They are certainly going to try it again this year, but I can't see it moving up much past $3/g again without demand dropping. After the 75% runup over the past two years (with Katrina being the excuse), the average joe on the street isn't going to have much left over after going to work and paying for food, the mortgage and other expenses. It's interesting that some in the professional services industries, like orthodontic dentists, dentists and even doctors are seeing a decrease in their gross incomes because the average schmoe can't afford a co-pay even. Trades people are even feeling it because their prices have had to increase due to energy and compensation insurance increases. You have to remember that the real rate of inflation this year (including food/energy/services) is about 13% and it could go higher. That alone is certainly going to impact boating, never mind fuel costs. And now, speaking of boating, I'm done and gone. Gonig out to get some drive time on a twin diesel Topaz. Gotta learn the ins and outs of this twin inboard stuff if I'm going to buy Eisboch's Navigator. :) [1] WHOO HOO!!! [1] Not that I'm going to buy Eisboch's Navigator, but in this life and with me in charge, you never know. :) Tom, I figured you'd be upgrading to the Sea Vee 390 any day now. Surely the price of gas will have no bearing: http://tinyurl.com/2lzqw9 (Click on "Check out the new 390" at the bottom of the page. |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:09:31 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 12:39:29 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Chuck Gould wrote: On Apr 29, 9:03?am, Vic Smith wrote: On 29 Apr 2007 08:39:57 -0700, Chuck Gould wrote: Wally Lunchbucket was never going to buy a $250,000 boat, but the Wally's buy a lot of boats in the $35-100,000 category and often budget very carefully to make the monthly payments. The vast majority of people are "payment buyers", and make decisions whether to buy or not buy a major item based less on the price than on whether the monthly payment is affordable. Interesting. ?Maybe because I only spent about half a year on the west coast I never met a Wally Lunchbucket. Around here I know plenty of guys called Joe Sixpack. Ever heard of him? --Vic Joe is Wally's kissin' cousin. 'Cept of course Joe and Wally don't kiss- at least not in public unless they're in San Francisco or Seattle. :-) Wally's brothers, Joe and Johnny Lunchbucket are probably mentioned more frequently than Wally. Disheartening news is that with fuel dock prices already in the $4.50 range and headed for $5, none of the Lunchbucket brothers will be racing out to buy a new boat anytime soon. That impacts everybody who owns a boat and hopes to sell it someday as well as all of the folks who sell new or used boats for a living. Please...the Lunchbucket family has been working at Wal-Mart and 7-11 as a result of the Bush Administration's eagerness to export U.S. manufacturing jobs to the Pacific Rim and Mexico and Central and South America. Harry, Harry, there are some good places for your political attempts. Isn't your septic tank about empty now? |
Gas prices and power boating
"JR North" wrote in message ... This is an unbelievable statement. Ground Control to Major Chuck! Ground Control to Major Chuck! You're out of control.... You can pick up a used PU for a grand or 2, throw a couple grand into it to make it reliable, and paint it to match the boat to boot for under 6K total. Classic example of the SUV Mentality permeating our society. Big brand new 50K truck.... With the cost of new trailer boats in the 22-25 ft range at 70k or more and dock gas at $4.50 with no end in site, Just who do you expect is stupid (and rich) enough to fork over 120k (that's unfinanced) to do the trailer boat thing? Buy a brand new truck to tow the boat? Come ON..... JR Chuck Gould wrote: Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. Launching a trailer boat requires a big truck, preferably 4WD in a lot of situations. That can be a $40-50,000 proposition, or more, in the current market and since most folks won't have the luxury of owning a vehicle for no purpose other than launching a boat the fuel costs associated with a two vehicle are a concern seven days a week, not just on Saturday or Sunday when the boat gets wet. -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth We boated for years with 15-17' 35-50 hp outboards. Skied behind them. Towed them with the daily driver car. 55 Chevy convertible. Factory stick too. 56 Ford, convertible, 64 Chevy impala. All got 16-18 mpg highway normal driving. You only need the big 4x4 for big boats launching at ramps that are poor shape or get slippery from algae. Why do you need a $50,000+ Ski Nautique to do the same thing a 5 year ago $25k Ski Nautique did? Due to peer pressure and marketing, and you see it especially on this group, people believe they need a minimum 150hp O/B for boating with the family. |
Gas prices and power boating
"Animal05" wrote in message ... John H. wrote: On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:09:31 GMT, "Don White" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Funny that donnie boy would say that, considering the amount of oil the US gets from Canada The more you guzzle and create a high demand, the higher price I have to pay at the pumps. Simple enough for you? |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 19:20:37 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: "John H." wrote in message .. . That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Why so interested? He offered you a great price on the Parker last year and all you did was a virtual 'kick the tires' routine. My gosh, I don't want a boat as big as either of the two boats Harry owns! What price did he offer, Don? I sure don't recall seeing a price anywhere. Is this another of your 'mistakes'? |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 7:01 pm, John H. wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:12:28 GMT, "Don White" wrote: "Animal05" wrote in message ... John H. wrote: On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:09:31 GMT, "Don White" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Funny that donnie boy would say that, considering the amount of oil the US gets from Canada The more you guzzle and create a high demand, the higher price I have to pay at the pumps. Simple enough for you? Well, let's see. The big Yamaha on the back of that 25'er probably burns 10-15 gph cruising. How much do you reckon the powerplant in the lobsta boat burns. Maybe a couple of big gassers in there, or a couple humongus diesels. What do you think? Is your hero helping your cause?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Someone should tell the Gilmore Girls that viagra is a lot cheaper than double diesels, and probably just as effective. Anyway, to sherrif chuckies point, my children (the next generation of spenders) and many or their peers are moving toward greener play across the board. Kayaking (touring), indoor rock climbing, and bike trips are big, vacations are no longer Daytona, but New Orleans for cleanup and culture. Many of the local water ways are making provisions for much smaller boats, and recreation and motor restrictions are getting tougher every day. The overindulgent will still have their big boats, but they will pay though the nose, be subjected to more restrictions, and their numbers will drop due to financial attrition. I don't know that the situation will ever improve for them from this point on. Once the big manufacturers tool down, I don't see them coming back. |
Gas prices and power boating
wrote in message ups.com... Someone should tell the Gilmore Girls that viagra is a lot cheaper than double diesels, and probably just as effective. Anyway, to sherrif chuckies point, my children (the next generation of spenders) and many or their peers are moving toward greener play across the board. Kayaking (touring), indoor rock climbing, and bike trips are big, vacations are no longer Daytona, but New Orleans for cleanup and culture. Many of the local water ways are making provisions for much smaller boats, and recreation and motor restrictions are getting tougher every day. The overindulgent will still have their big boats, but they will pay though the nose, be subjected to more restrictions, and their numbers will drop due to financial attrition. I don't know that the situation will ever improve for them from this point on. Once the big manufacturers tool down, I don't see them coming back. I am curious. What makes you think that a 20'-25' outboard or I/O powered boat being used for it's intended purposes is any more fuel efficient than a 40'-50' twin diesel cruiser being used for it's intended purpose? The truth may surprise you. Eisboch |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:12:28 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: "Animal05" wrote in message ... John H. wrote: On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:09:31 GMT, "Don White" wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... wf3h wrote: Some folks are speculating that gas can hit $4/gallon this year. Fuel dock prices could shoot above $5. Any idea at what point people will just stop boating? This is a form of the 'luxury' tax a few years ago that collapsed the yacht makers. why WOULDN'T gas prices have the same effect? It ought to, and maybe it will lead to a downsizing in boats. Some of the best fun I've ever had in boats has been in small boats with small engines, and in small sailboats. Screw the oil companies and their partners in crime in the Gulf States. Yes..if all the citizens of the western world (especially the US) would think like that, we'd have half a chance with those %^$%^ oil barons. That Harry is such a neat guy, right Don? Do you reckon he'll sell the 25' Parker and the 36' lobsta' boat anytime soon? Funny that donnie boy would say that, considering the amount of oil the US gets from Canada The more you guzzle and create a high demand, the higher price I have to pay at the pumps. Simple enough for you? Well, let's see. The big Yamaha on the back of that 25'er probably burns 10-15 gph cruising. How much do you reckon the powerplant in the lobsta boat burns. Maybe a couple of big gassers in there, or a couple humongus diesels. What do you think? Is your hero helping your cause? |
Gas prices and power boating
|
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:57:04 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Someone should tell the Gilmore Girls that viagra is a lot cheaper than double diesels, and probably just as effective. Anyway, to sherrif chuckies point, my children (the next generation of spenders) and many or their peers are moving toward greener play across the board. Kayaking (touring), indoor rock climbing, and bike trips are big, vacations are no longer Daytona, but New Orleans for cleanup and culture. Many of the local water ways are making provisions for much smaller boats, and recreation and motor restrictions are getting tougher every day. The overindulgent will still have their big boats, but they will pay though the nose, be subjected to more restrictions, and their numbers will drop due to financial attrition. I don't know that the situation will ever improve for them from this point on. Once the big manufacturers tool down, I don't see them coming back. I am curious. What makes you think that a 20'-25' outboard or I/O powered boat being used for it's intended purposes is any more fuel efficient than a 40'-50' twin diesel cruiser being used for it's intended purpose? The truth may surprise you. You know what was interesting to me on this whole twin engine deal I did today? We used less fuel (diesel) than I would have used on the Contender doing the same kind of stuff. On the other hand, the Contender would move a hell of a lot faster and cruised higher than the Topaz's top end. I think overall, the diesels would be cheaper in the long run, but you just can't get the oommph you can with outboards. :) |
Gas prices and power boating
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:57:04 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: wrote in message roups.com... Someone should tell the Gilmore Girls that viagra is a lot cheaper than double diesels, and probably just as effective. Anyway, to sherrif chuckies point, my children (the next generation of spenders) and many or their peers are moving toward greener play across the board. Kayaking (touring), indoor rock climbing, and bike trips are big, vacations are no longer Daytona, but New Orleans for cleanup and culture. Many of the local water ways are making provisions for much smaller boats, and recreation and motor restrictions are getting tougher every day. The overindulgent will still have their big boats, but they will pay though the nose, be subjected to more restrictions, and their numbers will drop due to financial attrition. I don't know that the situation will ever improve for them from this point on. Once the big manufacturers tool down, I don't see them coming back. I am curious. What makes you think that a 20'-25' outboard or I/O powered boat being used for it's intended purposes is any more fuel efficient than a 40'-50' twin diesel cruiser being used for it's intended purpose? The truth may surprise you. You know what was interesting to me on this whole twin engine deal I did today? We used less fuel (diesel) than I would have used on the Contender doing the same kind of stuff. On the other hand, the Contender would move a hell of a lot faster and cruised higher than the Topaz's top end. I think overall, the diesels would be cheaper in the long run, but you just can't get the oommph you can with outboards. :) Ahh, you spoiled my carefully planned setup of " justwaitafrekinminute". The difference is the speed at which you play. Consider the differences in a couple of boat examples: Boat "A": 25' something with a 225 hp gas outboard or a 300 hp I/O setup. Boat displaces about 5K-6K lbs. With a couple of people aboard plus "stuff" what is it's fuel burn at "cruise" which is probably 32-35 kts? Boat "B": 50' something with twin, 370hp turbodiesels. Boat displaces 38k-40k lbs. With any legal number of people aboard plus all their "stuff" what is it's fuel burn rate at "cruise" which is 18-19 kts? Betcha Boat "B" (which is over 7 times heavier) is burning fuel at a comparable rate to boat "A". If so, which boat is more efficient? Eisboch |
Gas prices and power boating
On Apr 29, 7:02 pm, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On 29 Apr 2007 15:36:35 -0700, wrote: I know that locally, there are a quite a few fisherman who have fishing kyacks and canoes with smallish electric motors. I'm a little too big to use something like that, although now that the Princecraft is down south, I might think that one through a little more. It's tough to launch the Ranger on smaller ponds. However, with the arthritis problems I have, a kayack or canoe is a little small for me to be comfortable - not to mention that at 6'3" and now 235 (from 270) that's a little cramped. I've been thinking recently of getting one of those little Coleman skiffs, a pontoon type boat I can throw in the back of the pickup I have seen guys your size try to function in boats that small. Many times they either need a mate on board or I have even seen them use sandbags just to keep the boat in a maneuverable attitude. Do yourself a favor, save a lot of wasted money and test drive one a few times first. And I trust you know better than to assume you will always be in ideal conditions. I just don't think the pickup truck boat will do the boating I assume you want to do. As to fishing canoes and kayaks, I can't see them as being useful in any kind of adverse conditions at all, especially if you want to fish and not swim and I can't really imagine you crawling back into a necky. You may be stuck with a couple of boats. I might try something under 20 feet (big low power skiff) for inland trips, giving up speed and space on skinny water, but the guys who still want to fish off shore won't have much of a choice, unless you want to charter :( I know I may be presumptious here, but the future is coming fast and many of us may need to make some serious changes, real soon. Guess who the greenies will be after when they are done with the SUV's? I think it's a little early to make that kind of determination, but I take your point. Phew, I am trying to be more coherent and pithy here, even if I still can't spell. |
Gas prices and power boating
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... Down thread, somebody comments about the market returning to smaller boats. I'm not sure that will be the result of this third straight year of gas gouging. From what I can see, the small boat builders are hurting even worse than the yacht manufacturers. The guys in the big boats? They can afford the fuel. Fuel prices affect everybody and I don't think the popularity of larger boats is necessarily due to the ability to pay for the higher fuel costs. In fact, I could argue a case that in these days of high prices, the larger boat makes more sense to own .... and I say that having experience owning small boats, bigger boats and everything in between. My reasoning follows, but first a couple of definition stipulations. What's a "small" boat? To me, (at the risk of a debate) a small boat is an outboard or I/O powered (single or twins) vessel of about 25 feet LOA or less. A "large" boat to me is a diesel powered boat with an LOA of 40-50 feet or more. The rest are "in betweens". (not discussing sailboats) My reasoning: 1. In general, smaller boats are used more for fishing, skiing, tubing and other single day boating activities. They usually are "go fast" boats and burn quite a bit of fuel at or near WOT. So, other than the few that putt-putt around for an afternoon, a weekend of typical boating activities on a smaller boat that require high throttle settings can be quite expensive at today's fuel prices. 2. With the exception of some high performance sportsfish type boats, bigger boats are more efficient in their fuel usage. They can carry more people, more equipment, more overall "stuff" and the gallons burned per hour won't change much due to load changes. Furthermore, big boats typically aren't used for "go fast" afternoon recreational activities. A leisurely cruise to a favorite port can be an all day pleasure trip for a number of people at a relatively low fuel burn rate. For example, at cruise speed (19 knots) our Navigator burns about 25 gallons of diesel fuel per hour. This is on a boat that, loaded with fuel, water and all our "stuff" probably displaces around 40,000 lbs. or more. If I drop that speed down to 10-12 knots, I'll bet it burns less than half that. Also, it holds 500 gallons of fuel, so we can go quite a while without worrying about where to get fuel. 3. My final point. A smaller boat is used, then hauled or tied up at a slip until the next usage. There's not much else to do on it. It can be washed quickly, maybe the owner can hang out for a while, but usually it's a day event. A bigger boat has more to offer in terms of function, in my opinion. I still enjoy spending 3 or 4 days or more at a time, several times during the summer, "living" aboard the boat, either at the slip or occasionally swinging on a mooring. I don't necessarily need to burn fuel to enjoy it. Often, I simply putter around doing maintenance chores during the day and enjoying the occasional visits of others with boats at the marina or other visiting friends. Then, when all but a few leave for home, the rest of us enjoy the evening cool air shooting the breeze or in quiet solitude if we choose. When it's time for sleep, there's a very comfortable queen size bed awaiting. And .... in my opinion ..... there's nothing better than a cup of coffee in the morning while watching the sun rise. Then ... there's the fun of riding out the occasional storms. Eisboch |
Gas prices and power boating
snippage of comparison, small boats vs. large
Then ... there's the fun of riding out the occasional storms. Eisboch You make a bunch of great points. Not being retired yet I usually don't think in terms of 4-5 day trips, and have never had a boat big enough to use it as a "beach house". For us, waking up to hot coffee and sunrise means we took the boat to a beach and pitched a tent. Guess I don't know what I don't know. Hopefully by the time I retire we will have this all figured out. |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 20:10:38 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
Then ... there's the fun of riding out the occasional storms. Booya!!!!! |
Gas prices and power boating
Eisboch wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:57:04 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Someone should tell the Gilmore Girls that viagra is a lot cheaper than double diesels, and probably just as effective. Anyway, to sherrif chuckies point, my children (the next generation of spenders) and many or their peers are moving toward greener play across the board. Kayaking (touring), indoor rock climbing, and bike trips are big, vacations are no longer Daytona, but New Orleans for cleanup and culture. Many of the local water ways are making provisions for much smaller boats, and recreation and motor restrictions are getting tougher every day. The overindulgent will still have their big boats, but they will pay though the nose, be subjected to more restrictions, and their numbers will drop due to financial attrition. I don't know that the situation will ever improve for them from this point on. Once the big manufacturers tool down, I don't see them coming back. I am curious. What makes you think that a 20'-25' outboard or I/O powered boat being used for it's intended purposes is any more fuel efficient than a 40'-50' twin diesel cruiser being used for it's intended purpose? The truth may surprise you. You know what was interesting to me on this whole twin engine deal I did today? We used less fuel (diesel) than I would have used on the Contender doing the same kind of stuff. On the other hand, the Contender would move a hell of a lot faster and cruised higher than the Topaz's top end. I think overall, the diesels would be cheaper in the long run, but you just can't get the oommph you can with outboards. :) Ahh, you spoiled my carefully planned setup of " justwaitafrekinminute". The difference is the speed at which you play. Consider the differences in a couple of boat examples: Boat "A": 25' something with a 225 hp gas outboard or a 300 hp I/O setup. Boat displaces about 5K-6K lbs. With a couple of people aboard plus "stuff" what is it's fuel burn at "cruise" which is probably 32-35 kts? Boat "B": 50' something with twin, 370hp turbodiesels. Boat displaces 38k-40k lbs. With any legal number of people aboard plus all their "stuff" what is it's fuel burn rate at "cruise" which is 18-19 kts? Betcha Boat "B" (which is over 7 times heavier) is burning fuel at a comparable rate to boat "A". If so, which boat is more efficient? Eisboch Your assumption is that Boat B is fully loaded with people and stuff. Not often, I'd bet. Boat A is similar to my Parker. I don't run it at 32-35 knots. I run at 23-27 knots under the right conditions, and keep my fuel burn "around" 10 gph. That's with four adults aboard. The gauge I watch most closely is the ol' GPH meter. :} At 40 mph, Yo Ho burns about 20 gph. No thanks. |
Gas prices and power boating
On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:36:35 -0700, justwaitafrekinminute wrote:
Anyway, to sherrif chuckies point, my children (the next generation of spenders) and many or their peers are moving toward greener play across the board. Kayaking (touring), indoor rock climbing, and bike trips are big, vacations are no longer Daytona, but New Orleans for cleanup and culture. Not trying to put a damper on your optimism, greener play is clearly a good thing, but I wonder how much is purely due to age, and not a different philosophy. I know my play activities were more physically intensive, and less energy intensive, when I was in my twenties, than they are now. I'd also point out most most twenty-year-olds, starting out raising families, buying houses, etc. don't have the economic means to be heavily involved in recreational boating. Did you ever wonder why this newsgroup is populated with the middle-aged? |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:30 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com