From my previous posts regarding kayaking near Stockholm, Sweden, some
of you have suggested I may need to get a wet suit or a dry suit. What
are the tradeoffs of each? I suppose I could have done a google search
on the topic but thought I'd ask this group first.....


Cheers and TIA.

Per Moby Dick:
From my previous posts regarding kayaking near Stockholm, Sweden, some
of you have suggested I may need to get a wet suit or a dry suit. What
are the tradeoffs of each? I suppose I could have done a google search
on the topic but thought I'd ask this group first.....

I'll start it off.

Wet Suit:
-------------------------------------------
- Harder to get on/off
- Bulletproof. No seals to rip. No issues with
shipping water - it's already wet in there.
- Bruise protection from the foam rubber
- Streamlined when you have to swim
- No self-BS: It's either 5mm or 3mm or whatever
- Depending on the suit, may have less freedom
of motion than a dry suit


Bag-Style Dry Suit:
-------------------------------------------
- Easy on/easy off
- If you rip a neck seal, you it can spoil your day
- Ditto if you forget to zip the shoulder zipper. For
that reason, I'd only consider a diagonal-zippered
dry suit like my Kokatat.
- If you ship enough water, the insulation factor goes
down the toilet and, if the weight of your soaked
Polartec is enough and you have to, say, right a
capsized catamaran you can be in deep, deep kimchee.
- Seals last anywhere from one year to a max of three
or four years - then they have to be replaced.
Figure $150 minimum for ankles + wrists + neck.
- No bruise protection
- Negative streamlining
- Finely-tunable thermal protection. You can wear a log
or a little underneath. The downside of is
the self-BS factor...
- There's a self-BS factor: you can kid yourself and wear
enough under it to be comfortable paddling but
be insufficient to survive immersion long enough
- Good freedom of motion in upper body, but there can be
a vacuum pack effect on the legs when immersed - and if
the material is hanging the wrong way (as in the crotch
is too low) your mobility can be severely limited - as
in unable to get to your feet in shore break.


Full Neo Dry Suit
-----------------------------------------------
- Pretty much bulletproof if you don't forget to zip
the shoulder zipper - but even then you're covered
in rubber.
- Easier on/off than a wet suit - but not all that much
- Bruise protection as a wet suit
- Streamlining as a wet suit, but maybe a little less
- Better upper body mobility than a wet suit (assuming it's
made for windsurfing or paddling) but not as much as
a bag top.
- Again, no self-BS factor


Hybrid: Bag Top Neo John (e.g. Bare Polar)
-------------------------------------------------
- Somewhat fault-tolerant. If you rip a seal,
you're still wearing a neo john
- Supreme mobility. All the upper body mobility
of a full bag suit without the vacuum bag
effect.
- Better streamlining than a bag suit, probably
not as good as a wet suit or neo dry suit.
- Bruise protection for the lower body
- Less chance for self-BS bco the neo john.
You can still not wear enough under the top,
but can't go as far down that path as with
a bag suit.
--
PeteCresswell

Pete, thanks for the mondo comparison writeup.

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

Full Neo Dry Suit

For people like me without much brainpower, could you post a link
to a picture of the Full Neo Dry? Web search came up mostly empty.
It sounds like what some call a "Steamer" suit, which is basically
a full wetsuit with waterproof zipper.

Hybrid: Bag Top Neo John (e.g. Bare Polar)

I found this one:
http://www.sailworld.com/bare/bare.htm

Per Bill Tuthill:
For people like me without much brainpower, could you post a link
to a picture of the Full Neo Dry? Web search came up mostly empty.
It sounds like what some call a "Steamer" suit, which is basically
a full wetsuit with waterproof zipper.

You've pretty much got it.


Full Neo Dry:
----------------------------------------------------
http://tinyurl.com/2flcbb (if you look closely, the across-shoulder zipper is
visible)


Bag Top/Neo Bottom:
-----------------------------------------------------
http://tinyurl.com/2aptgm (this one uses latex seals - dryer, more comfortable
at the expense of durability/bulletproofness

http://tinyurl.com/2bpnoj This one may use a different seal material. Dunno for
sure, but I've *seen* bag top/neo bottom suits with neoprene seals. The
tradeoff is bulletproffness vs comfort/dryness. What I hear, though, is that
neo neck seals don't last forever - bco the stretching - but my guess is that
they won't tear open suddenly as latex will.






--
PeteCresswell

Just a few thoughts on the thermal protection question...

First rule of thumb - if you couldn't swim comfortably in the water for
however long it takes to re-enter the boat or get ashore, you need some sort
of thermal protection.

Wet Suits - we bought farmer john suits during our first season of kayaking,
and used them for a couple of years - well, sort of...in fact, we didn't use
them as much as we should have, for the following reasons:
- Hard to don and shed.
- Tended to be hot in the boat given much exertion.
- Tended to be cold if sweaty when exercise stopped.
- Tended to chafe.
- Very cold if exposed to wind when wet.

Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable. They are a quantum
improvement over the wet suits, both in terms of protection and comfort. We
wear ours almost all the time now if we're on salt water (this far north, it
almost never really gets what most folks call 'warm')

Finally, another suggestion - we always carry a dry bag each in the cockpit
which contains everything needed to survive an unexpected night ashore - a
full change of clothes, fire starting materials, 1st aid gear, the makings
and rigging of a crude shelter (8x10sheet Tyvek, folded to fit the bottom of
the bag), and some durable food. In the worse case scenario (flipped, lost
the boats!!!), the bags contain enough survival supplies to get us thru a
couple of days ashore - by then, someone should be looking for us, as we
leave a float plan of some sort either with someone or where it will be
easily found.

On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

PS: I bought my Kokatat drysuit from a guy I contacted via RBP, years
ago. Maybe 1998 or so, I think. He sold me his Kokatat drysuit because
he had just made Team Stohlquist, and was gonna be wearing a
Stohlquist drysuit from then on, I believe. $375 for a large Kokatat
GoreTEX drysuit in excellent condition, with built-in neo booties, and
he threw in the 100 weight Mountain Surf body stocking *and* a pair of
size 12 NRS overbooties for protecting the then neo booties in the
drysuit! What a deal, yano? Ahhh, those were the days on RBP! :-)

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe...

JohnKuthe wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

Sorry John, having had "semi-dry" tops for the last decade, I disagree.
They keep the water out pretty well, and the ones I have now, one Delta
and one Palm with double neoprene neck gasket don't do any worse than my
latex gasket dry suit.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

On Feb 19, 2:20 am, Wilko wrote:
JohnKuthe wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

Sorry John, having had "semi-dry" tops for the last decade, I disagree.
They keep the water out pretty well, and the ones I have now, one Delta
and one Palm with double neoprene neck gasket don't do any worse than my
latex gasket dry suit.

OK, but don't call them "drytops" because they are not! I call them
"damp tops" just to **** off the people who call them dry tops.
Keeping the water out "pretty well" is undoubtedly of great value, but
keeping the water out completely is better, and I don't think there's
anything better for doing that than a properly fitted latex gasket.

John Kuthe...

On Feb 19, 10:32 am, "JohnKuthe" wrote:
On Feb 19, 2:20 am, Wilko wrote:





JohnKuthe wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

Sorry John, having had "semi-dry" tops for the last decade, I disagree.
They keep the water out pretty well, and the ones I have now, one Delta
and one Palm with double neoprene neck gasket don't do any worse than my
latex gasket dry suit.

OK, but don't call them "drytops" because they are not! I call them
"damp tops" just to **** off the people who call them dry tops.
Keeping the water out "pretty well" is undoubtedly of great value, but
keeping the water out completely is better, and I don't think there's
anything better for doing that than a properly fitted latex gasket.

John Kuthe...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm keeping out of this discussion, because I absolutely refuse to
agree with John Kuthe on ANYthing.

"JohnKuthe" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck
seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck
seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

PS: I bought my Kokatat drysuit from a guy I contacted via RBP, years
ago. Maybe 1998 or so, I think. He sold me his Kokatat drysuit because
he had just made Team Stohlquist, and was gonna be wearing a
Stohlquist drysuit from then on, I believe. $375 for a large Kokatat
GoreTEX drysuit in excellent condition, with built-in neo booties, and
he threw in the 100 weight Mountain Surf body stocking *and* a pair of
size 12 NRS overbooties for protecting the then neo booties in the
drysuit! What a deal, yano? Ahhh, those were the days on RBP! :-)

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe...



Who the f--k is Yano?
;-)


--
www.mattclara.com