Courtney wrote:
Or you could get some neoprene pants and a drop top. I whitewater and sea
kayak in Washington State and the water is very cold and I am perfectly
comfortable both in and out of the water as well as in the boat. I used to
wear a dry top with dry pants for years but never did really like the pants.
I saw some others wearing the neoprene pants that were very good paddlers
and asked them how they liked them. They loved the combination so much that
I thought I'd try it out and now I love it too. I've been in snow melt
waters with these pants and in instructor sea kayak coarses where being in
the ocean for long time periods was mandatory and stayed very warm and
didn't get any water in my drt top either. When it's really cold out and a
swim is possible I also wear some polypro under the pants (as well as the
normal few layers under the top). I've been wearing this combo now for
about 5 years and don't have any complaints.

I've gotta agree with Courtney about the comfort and efficacy of neoprene.
The main reason I own a drysuit is for overnight trips: in the morning,
it's much easier to put on a drysuit than a frozen neoprene suit. Also
for hike-in trips, I can wear a drysuit liner on the hike. It's hard to
walk a long distance wearing neoprene.

My complaints with drysuits:
1. high cost
2. discomfort of neck gasket
3. after sweat, not really dry
4. zippers leak when underwater

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...
Per Courtney:
When it's really cold out and a
swim is possible I also wear some polypro under the pants (as well as the
normal few layers under the top). I've been wearing this combo now for
about 5 years and don't have any complaints.

That's encouraging bc last fall I dropped a bundle on this combination:

- http://tinyurl.com/22otvg
- http://tinyurl.com/yvt3uz

It got a little too cold a little too fast for me to give the bib john/dry
top a
try, but March is on the way...

What do you wear under the dry top?

My plan is to try a neo t-shirt and some neo arms from an old spring suit.
--
PeteCresswell

Depending on the cold I wear one to three layers of polypro under my dry
top. Usually a lightweight first layer and a heavyweight second layer
though.

Courtney

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Brian Nystrom:
- Warnings about seal failures are largely a red herring. Yes, they
definitely do happen, but I have never seen a seal fail while the suit
was being worn. They invariably fail when donning or doffing the suit,
so you KNOW that the seal has failed before you try to use the suit.
Yes, it can stop a trip in it's tracks, but so can a lot of other
things. Seal replacement is a pretty simple DIY job if you're reasonably
handy.

Never thought of it before, but that seems tb a further justification for
getting a convenience zipper on the dry suit. I got one on my Kokatat and was
regretting it - since it's so easy to just take the top off. But now that
you've mentioned it, it sure would be a bummer to pull into a little beach
somewhere 5 miles into a workout and rip the neck seal.

I agree and I have a relief zipper in my dry suit. IMO, that and either
latex or Gore-tex socks are must-have items.

OTOH, one dry suit maker (I *think* it was Ocean Rodeo - but their web site is
almost as bad as O'Neil's and I can't find the product right now) is or was
making a bag suit with the diagonal zipper long enough to serve the same
function as a convenience zipper.

I've seen that claim, too. IIRC, I think it was for one of the cheaper
Kokatat suits with the plastic zipper. Regardless, I have my doubts
about whether it will actually work well. The last time I checked, my
penis was not located on my hip. ;-)

- Ditto the warnings about leaving zippers open. I don't know anyone
who's done that more than once. ;-) And no, it's not because they died.
It's simply a matter of getting into a routine of donning the suit and
closing the zippers, then checking again before you hit the water.

I've read one first-hand account by somebody far more competent than I am. Like
you say, he didn't die... but it sound like it was a looooong paddle home since
he couldn't operate the shoulder zipper from inside the kayak. Score one for
diagonal zippers.

I don't have any experience with shoulder zippers, but I wonder why
people don't use a simple snap-on pull strap to operate them, similar to
what's used on back-zip wetsuits.

We did, however lose a guy in southern New Jersey some years back. He had gone
out in a bag dry suit with virtually nothing underneath. Fell in the water,
went hypothermic, and drowned without being able to re-mount the boat.

Well, duh! He should have known that a dry suit doesn't insulate by
itself. I take it he wasn't wearing a PFD, either?

Courtney wrote:
Or you could get some neoprene pants and a drop top. I whitewater and sea
kayak in Washington State and the water is very cold and I am perfectly
comfortable both in and out of the water as well as in the boat. I used to
wear a dry top with dry pants for years but never did really like the pants.
I saw some others wearing the neoprene pants that were very good paddlers
and asked them how they liked them. They loved the combination so much that
I thought I'd try it out and now I love it too. I've been in snow melt
waters with these pants and in instructor sea kayak coarses where being in
the ocean for long time periods was mandatory and stayed very warm and
didn't get any water in my drt top either. When it's really cold out and a
swim is possible I also wear some polypro under the pants (as well as the
normal few layers under the top). I've been wearing this combo now for
about 5 years and don't have any complaints.

I said "No thanks" to neoprene years ago. By varying the insulation in
my dry suit, I can use it until the temps get warm enough that I can go
right to a dry top with Hydrofleece pants or shorts. I can't see any
point in putting up with the hassles and discomfort of neoprene when the
dry suit offers a better alternative.

Bill Tuthill wrote:
Courtney wrote:
Or you could get some neoprene pants and a drop top. I whitewater and sea
kayak in Washington State and the water is very cold and I am perfectly
comfortable both in and out of the water as well as in the boat. I used to
wear a dry top with dry pants for years but never did really like the pants.
I saw some others wearing the neoprene pants that were very good paddlers
and asked them how they liked them. They loved the combination so much that
I thought I'd try it out and now I love it too. I've been in snow melt
waters with these pants and in instructor sea kayak coarses where being in
the ocean for long time periods was mandatory and stayed very warm and
didn't get any water in my drt top either. When it's really cold out and a
swim is possible I also wear some polypro under the pants (as well as the
normal few layers under the top). I've been wearing this combo now for
about 5 years and don't have any complaints.

I've gotta agree with Courtney about the comfort and efficacy of neoprene.
The main reason I own a drysuit is for overnight trips: in the morning,
it's much easier to put on a drysuit than a frozen neoprene suit. Also
for hike-in trips, I can wear a drysuit liner on the hike. It's hard to
walk a long distance wearing neoprene.

My complaints with drysuits:
1. high cost

Unfortunately, that's unavoidable, but a good dry suit can last a decade
or more, so the price isn't so bad in the long run.

2. discomfort of neck gasket

Trim it to fit and the problem is solved. It only takes a few minutes.

3. after sweat, not really dry

Are you wearing a breathable dry suit? If not, that's most of the
problem. You'll get damp in a breathable suit too, but it dissipates
when your effort level drops. I find that when I take mine off, the
residual dampness in my fleece layers evaporates in less than a minute.

4. zippers leak when underwater

It sounds like you've got a problem with the zippers in your suit. The
zippers should NOT leak. The zippers used in better quality paddling dry
suits are the same type used in diver's dry suits, where any leakage
cannot be tolerated. If your suit has plastic zippers, that's the
problem. If it's got metal zippers, contact the manufacturer of the suit
and complain about the leaks. They'll fix it.

Per Brian Nystrom:
2. discomfort of neck gasket

Trim it to fit and the problem is solved. It only takes a few minutes.


Maybe I'm the only one, but I find my dry suit neck gaskets more comfortable
than some wet suit necks.

As others advise: trim.

But go slowly when trimming. Take it one ring at a time and wear it between
cuttings.
--
PeteCresswell

JohnKuthe wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

Sorry John, having had "semi-dry" tops for the last decade, I disagree.
They keep the water out pretty well, and the ones I have now, one Delta
and one Palm with double neoprene neck gasket don't do any worse than my
latex gasket dry suit.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

Brian Nystrom wrote:

- For a wetsuit to function optimally, it must fit skin-tight and allow
as little water as possible to intrude (don't buy into the BS that water
in a wetsuit acts as insulation, it's a heatsink). Getting the right fit
can be difficult. Additionally, wetsuits are typically designed for
activities where one is standing or swimming, not sitting, so the fit
changes in a kayak. Custom wetsuits are available, but they cost as much
as a dry suit. The loose fit of a dry suit eliminates these fit issues.

Kayaking wetsuits are designed to be used while sitting, so the fit is
right for a kayak. There are probably at least half a dozen
manufacturers that make those kayaking wetsuits, and usually they don't
cost more than 150 to 200 US$. Most people can't find a drysuit for that
price...

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

On Feb 19, 2:20 am, Wilko wrote:
JohnKuthe wrote:
On Feb 15, 1:43 pm, "vk1nf" wrote:
Dry Suits - so, two years ago, we finally bit the bullet, and spent about
$600 each on dry suits - or to be accurate, semi-dry suits - Kokatat
SuperNova suits, breathable fabric, latex wrist seals, neoprene neck seal.
The suits aren't as water-tight as the full drysuit with a latex neck seal,
but they are more comfortable for us and more affordable.

Oh NOOOOO! Don't tell me Kokatat bought into the same "damp suit" crap
that that IR promulgated on to the boating community with it's comfy
neo neck, er...'gasket'!

Gimme full latex neck and wrist gaskets, and built-in booties in a
DRYsuit anyday! Anything else is just a damp suit! Yer either dry or
your not, yano? I'm dry! :-) I love my Kokatat GoreTEX drysuit with
latex neck and wrist gaskets. So much so that when I had the neck and
wrist gaskets replaced, I had Kokatat install a pee zipper too! Never
realized how many rapids I ran on a full bladder until I had my pee
zipper! :-)

Sorry John, having had "semi-dry" tops for the last decade, I disagree.
They keep the water out pretty well, and the ones I have now, one Delta
and one Palm with double neoprene neck gasket don't do any worse than my
latex gasket dry suit.

OK, but don't call them "drytops" because they are not! I call them
"damp tops" just to **** off the people who call them dry tops.
Keeping the water out "pretty well" is undoubtedly of great value, but
keeping the water out completely is better, and I don't think there's
anything better for doing that than a properly fitted latex gasket.

John Kuthe...

Glad that works for you. This is what works for me and I'm very comfortable
wearing them. Also, another up side is that I don't have to buy a dry suit
and a dry top. ;-)

Courtney

"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message
news:NS_Bh.1903$2w.1810@trndny09...
Courtney wrote:
Or you could get some neoprene pants and a drop top. I whitewater and
sea
kayak in Washington State and the water is very cold and I am perfectly
comfortable both in and out of the water as well as in the boat. I used
to
wear a dry top with dry pants for years but never did really like the
pants.
I saw some others wearing the neoprene pants that were very good
paddlers
and asked them how they liked them. They loved the combination so much
that
I thought I'd try it out and now I love it too. I've been in snow melt
waters with these pants and in instructor sea kayak coarses where being
in
the ocean for long time periods was mandatory and stayed very warm and
didn't get any water in my drt top either. When it's really cold out
and a
swim is possible I also wear some polypro under the pants (as well as
the
normal few layers under the top). I've been wearing this combo now for
about 5 years and don't have any complaints.

I said "No thanks" to neoprene years ago. By varying the insulation in
my dry suit, I can use it until the temps get warm enough that I can go
right to a dry top with Hydrofleece pants or shorts. I can't see any
point in putting up with the hassles and discomfort of neoprene when the
dry suit offers a better alternative.