BoatBanter.com - real quiet

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Matt Clara wrote:

What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.

Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental minivan
last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.

Bill Tuthill wrote in :

Matt Clara wrote:

What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.

Yea, I can't wait to spend $35 for a new car.

Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan.

If I recall, the Escape Hybrid only gets about $36MPG. For about $10 less
than the MSRP for the Escape one could get a Jeep Patriot which is supposed
ot get 29MPG.

"Moby Dick" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 12, 8:19 am, Wilko wrote:
Moby Dick wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby
Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.
Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
my notion of membership.

Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was
very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like
Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of
usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at),
but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in
newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this
group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups
or participate in usenet.

On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary
newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is
posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect.

I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?

It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep,
you do that.

In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
1985."

The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a
couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their
private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since
newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't
being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a
community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do
provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of
behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of
the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums.
So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this
newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some
of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends.

I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
rented.

Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-)

Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it
change, participate.

Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the
doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in
front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says
"welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or
without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and
without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"?
On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they
don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats...

Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there,
who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the
limitations.---http://kayaker.nl/

Thanks for the explanation. This is my first time NOT top-posting
which I think makes it harder to read from Google groups but here
goes...

I did not intend to be a troublemaker. Sorry if I was/am perceived as
such.

I like your metaphor but I think it changes a little bit from my point
of view. I think your metaphor should be.....

Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and sitting down to
have a drink when you overhear the few patrons there start complaining
that not enough people come into the bar anymore or, at least, they
don't want to converse like they used to. Wanting to become part of
the group, I say that the bar owner should put up a sign and do a
little advertising since that's what other bars do. Then thay say I
have no right to criticise since I haven't ever been in the bar and
they've been patrons since the dinosaur age. Hmmm. Ok I'll shut up and
I'll also probably not ever come back.

Your suggestions to improve membership were, unlike those in your bar
analogy, not possible. You cannot assign key words to usenet newsgroup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

PS. you do need to grow a thicker skin to suffer usenet long.
PPS. I've reread this entire thread and I don't see where anyone has been
anything but patient with you. It's you who've been entirely defensive and
churlish over the fact that your impossible suggestions weren't well
received--imagine if you wandered into a pub for the first time, and started
suggesting **** that made no sense...

--
www.mattclara.com

"Matt Clara" wrote in message
. ..
"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
...
Matt Clara wrote:

What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.

I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big
enough
and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a
Volkswagen
Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with
manual
transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel.
The
engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest
of
the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on
goin...
I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been
a
better choice.

TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?

Yes, it means diesel, and, no, I've not tried biodiesel. It's a 50 minute
round trip drive to the nearest service station selling it. I do have a
bumper sticker that says BIODIESEL: no war required. I will make that trip
one of these days before too long (before it gets cold--I hear the shtuff
gels up something fierce in cold weather).

One more plus for diesel over hybrid--diesel doesn't dog out in the
mountains.

--
www.mattclara.com

John Fereira wrote:

If I recall, the Escape Hybrid only gets about 36MPG.

According to Consumer Reports, 22 city 29 highway. The RAV4 (both engines)
gets the same on the highway, but only 15-17 in town.

For about $10 less than the MSRP for the Escape one could get
a Jeep Patriot which is supposed to get 29MPG.

Thanks for the heads up! Consumer Reports has not yet tested the Patriot
and I'm not inclined to believe EPA ratings, so who knows about 29 MPG.
However one thing that excites me is availablilty of manual transmission!
For some reason (perhaps going downhill to put-in?) boaters seem to prefer
manual.

I'm still bamboozled by "automatic" transmission on our Prius. It's odd
that you put the lever up/forward for reverse and down/backward for drive.
But you can't argue with 50 MPG.

Bill Tuthill wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:

If I recall, the Escape Hybrid only gets about 36MPG.

According to Consumer Reports, 22 city 29 highway.

22/29MPG for a hybrid is pathetic. I just got back from NYC last night and
saw quite a few Escape hybrids used for taxis. I also saw tons of Toyota
Highlander hybrids.

The RAV4 (both
engines) gets the same on the highway, but only 15-17 in town.

For about $10 less than the MSRP for the Escape one could get a Jeep
Patriot which is supposed to get 29MPG.

Thanks for the heads up! Consumer Reports has not yet tested the
Patriot and I'm not inclined to believe EPA ratings, so who knows about
29 MPG. However one thing that excites me is availablilty of manual
transmission! For some reason (perhaps going downhill to put-in?)
boaters seem to prefer manual.

The manual transmission version also gets (according to Jeep) 3MPG better
than the automatic. CR has rated the Compass, which is supposed to be very
similar. I'm more interested in the Patriot because I would prefer
something with better off road capabilities. I wouldn't use them much but
there are a lot of seasonal roads in the area that I would feel more
comfortable on in a Patriot than the Compass.

I'm still bamboozled by "automatic" transmission on our Prius. It's
odd that you put the lever up/forward for reverse and down/backward for
drive. But you can't argue with 50 MPG.

We averaged 46MPG in our civic hybrid on our trip to NYC over the weekend
(about 530 total miles).

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
...
Matt Clara wrote:

What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.

Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental minivan
last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.

"Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too much
for a nuclear bomb."
How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've suggested
a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your occasional
load? Or are you just ****tin' us with all this concern for mileage?
SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.

--
www.mattclara.com

On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" wrote:
"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message

...

Matt Clara wrote:

What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.

Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental minivan
last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.

"Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too much
for a nuclear bomb."
How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've suggested
a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your occasional
load? Or are you just ****tin' us with all this concern for mileage?
SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.

Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?

A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
here.

"Siskuwihane" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" wrote:
"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message

...

Matt Clara wrote:

What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?

The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel
engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.

Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental
minivan
last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.

"Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too
much
for a nuclear bomb."
How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've
suggested
a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your
occasional
load? Or are you just ****tin' us with all this concern for mileage?
SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.

Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?

A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
here.

Doesn't haul a horse trailer for squat, either.

You can get quite a few boats in a horse trailer...

Cricket

Cricket wrote:
"Siskuwihane" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" wrote:
"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message

...

Matt Clara wrote:
What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel
engine
next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
might get better mileage, especially in town.
Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental
minivan
last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
"Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too
much
for a nuclear bomb."
How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've
suggested
a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your
occasional
load? Or are you just ****tin' us with all this concern for mileage?
SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.
Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?

A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
here.

Doesn't haul a horse trailer for squat, either.

You can get quite a few boats in a horse trailer...

Cricket

You guys have really never driven a Passat 4motion with a decent engine,
did you? More ground clearance and 4 wheel drive.
I drive a Skoda Octavia 4X4, which is built on the same platform as the
Passat's smaller brother, the Golf. It does very well on really bad
roads, and it's been voted as the caravan towing car of the year in
several countries. Making remarks about the Passat, with the same 4X4
system but with more powerful engines available, not being a great car
for hauling a horse trailer is nonsense.

This is the kind of roads (and quite a bit worse than that) I've taken
my Octavia on many times, usually during kayaking holidays in the
Balkans, mind telling me why my car should have given up on its first
day there?

http://kayaker.nl/macedonie/P224.jpg

Sure, there are better cars available for offroad trips, but very few,
if any, for a similar price, quality, fuel efficiency or top speed with
boats on top as that.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/