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Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
Fred |
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On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener"
wrote: Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running. Fred It's real quiet here even when there is water running! Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( John Kuthe... |
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On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" wrote:
On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" wrote: Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running. Fred It's real quiet here even when there is water running! Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( John Kuthe... Yeah. I was looking at this the other day: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about Wow. Them was the days. BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June? --riverman |
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On Feb 9, 1:20 pm, "riverman" wrote:
On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" wrote: On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" wrote: Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running. Fred It's real quiet here even when there is water running! Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( John Kuthe... Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about Wow. Them was the days. BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June? --riverman In fact, with this single reply to myself, I am now the MOST PROLIFIC POSTER THIS MONTH......with four posts! :-( --riverman |
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riverman wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:20 pm, "riverman" wrote: On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" wrote: On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" wrote: Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running. Fred It's real quiet here even when there is water running! Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( John Kuthe... Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about Wow. Them was the days. BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June? --riverman In fact, with this single reply to myself, I am now the MOST PROLIFIC POSTER THIS MONTH......with four posts! :-( --riverman Hmmm, there were over 6000 posts in the month of January 1999 alone. That's of course at the height of RBP, just after Scott died. I wonder how many posts Boatertalk gets every month... -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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On Feb 8, 10:25 pm, "riverman" wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:20 pm, "riverman" wrote: On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" wrote: On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" wrote: Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running. Fred It's real quiet here even when there is water running! Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( John Kuthe... Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about Wow. Them was the days. BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June? --riverman In fact, with this single reply to myself, I am now the MOST PROLIFIC POSTER THIS MONTH......with four posts! :-( --riverman- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hi riverman, I was just driftin around, and thought I would check out the rbp. Haven't been here for a long time, so just thought I would say hi. Actually thought of you earlier when I read news of tourist in Kenya being shot, and thought of when you were over there. Hope you are doing well where ever you are boating and fishing these days. Good day, Rkymtnhootowl |
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JohnKuthe wrote:
It's real quiet here even when there is water running! We ran the Illinois river (SW Oregon) over New Year's. I would've written a trip report but didn't have time. On New Year's Eve, we managed to stay up until 12 midnight east coast time! Which was 9:00 Pacific. The moon was intermittenly hiding behind clouds, but our backs got cold even with a big fire. Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear. I'm always a little baffled how the BoaterTalkers find so many topics. |
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Excuse me if this post apears twice. I posted over an hour ago and th
first is not showing up....So again: I think this group is approprately active for 300-400 memebers. Has there been a loss of memebership recently? Also, I moderate a Yahoo! group called "Signal and Image Processing." I occasionally do a memeberhsip drive by posting to related groups Perhaps someone in this group should do that. I'm a newbie so I think one of the senior members should do that. Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone should add it. On Feb 8, 8:19 pm, "JohnKuthe" wrote: On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" wrote: Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running. Fred It's real quiet here even when there is water running! Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( John Kuthe... |
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Moby Dick wrote:
Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone should add it. It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other paddlers. The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate back here. Mike |
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On Feb 11, 5:14 pm, Michael Daly wrote:
Moby Dick wrote: Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone should add it. It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other paddlers. The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate back here. Mike Hi Michael. Don't forget The Burning Man. I think Njall proboably did as much damage to r.b.p as Sponson-boy did. I was just reading a profile of Rocky Contos in the American Whitewater journal. It brought back memories of a vibrant and useful r.b.p, and then it actually referred to Rockies posts of his exploits during the halcyon years of r.b.p in the late '90s. Worth a read if you have access to a copy. -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty -- ================================================== ==================== Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu ================================================== ==================== |
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Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the group. On Feb 11, 3:14 pm, Michael Daly wrote: Moby Dick wrote: Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone should add it. It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other paddlers. The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate back here. Mike |
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"Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. |
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On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote:
"Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. |
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Moby Dick wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. John was simply reacting to your approach and lack of relevant knwoledge about how usenet functions. Read up a bit about what newsgroups are and what is involved in forming them before coming on and suggesting things that aren't relevant or appropriate. Also, RBP has been around for a long time, and the reasons you gave for wanting to change the name aren't going to change the usenet conventions that it adheres to. -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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"Moby Dick" wrote in
ups.com: On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. There is no membership involved. Rec.boats.paddle is an open forum that can be accessed numerous ways. Many use a usenet newsreader application such as Forte free agent, Xnews, and for the really old school types, a program called "trn". Google groups and Yahoo groups merely provide web based front ends to the group and may provide keyword searching capabilities but all they're really searching is the content of the posts. As is the case for most usenet groups the content focus is defined by a charter which is voted on when the group is initially proposed. In this case, the charter describes a group for discussion of topics related to boats that can be paddled, though there have been past discussions about whitewater rafting (with uses oars rather than paddles), and the use of sails on kayaks. As is the case for most usenet groups, topics do appear or drift outside the scope of the original charter but most try to relate their content, even if tangentially to paddling boats. To confuse things even more, in the UK they call kayaks a "canoe" and when we start talking about traditional kayaking alternative spellings appear (Qajaq) or specific types of kayaks (Baidarka) might show up. Thus, a thread on the merits of a bifurcated bow on a Baidarka might never contain the words kayak or canoe but it is very much about paddling a kayak. As I said, I (nor I doubt) anyone else here has any intention of discouraging you or anyone else from participating in this group. The questions that you ask regarding the materials used for kayaks are good ones and at least a couple of people have taken the time to provide answers. There is a vast amount of knowledge available here about kayaks, canoes, and related topics and, for the most part, the atmosphere is quite civil. From time to time, people do show up that only seem to want to be argumentative and disruptive, but that's the nature of usenet. Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. |
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On Feb 12, 12:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. Hee hee. Welcome to Usenet....a thick skin is usually pretty helpful. Mostly because sometimes things sound worse than they are intended. There are a host of traditions on Usenet, probably because of human nature (when people get together, they seem to make rules), and someone new to the medium often doesn't realize that many many many other people have trodden that way before. John wasn't being condescending (we get people here who ARE condescending, and you can really tell the difference), but was mentioning that the newsgroup doesn't have any 'keywords' per se. When people do a search of the group, they are only getting hits on words that have been included in people's posts. AFAIK (as far as I know), there isn't anywhere to even PUT 'keywords'. There IS a FAQ somewhere, and I'm sure it mentions kayaks, etc. Can anyone provide the link? While we're on the subject of rules and FAQs, top-posting is discouraged also. Something to do with how the messages 'read' if you want to look through the leading-in conversation. And also while we're at it, I'm risking the danger of being labeled a 'net nanny' for pointing this out....mea culpa. Meanwhile, welcome aboard. Where do you paddle? --riverman |
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On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence my notion of membership. I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that? In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since 1985." I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We rented. Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. |
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Moby Dick wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote: On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence my notion of membership. Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at), but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups or participate in usenet. On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect. I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that? It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep, you do that. In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since 1985." The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums. So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends. I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We rented. Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-) Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it change, participate. Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says "welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"? On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats... Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there, who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-) -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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On Feb 12, 8:19 am, Wilko wrote:
Moby Dick wrote: On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote: On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone. Now, I think I see why membership is down. Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence my notion of membership. Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at), but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups or participate in usenet. On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect. I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that? It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep, you do that. In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since 1985." The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums. So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends. I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We rented. Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-) Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it change, participate. Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says "welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"? On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats... Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there, who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-) -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---http://kayaker.nl/ Thanks for the explanation. This is my first time NOT top-posting which I think makes it harder to read from Google groups but here goes... I did not intend to be a troublemaker. Sorry if I was/am perceived as such. I like your metaphor but I think it changes a little bit from my point of view. I think your metaphor should be..... Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and sitting down to have a drink when you overhear the few patrons there start complaining that not enough people come into the bar anymore or, at least, they don't want to converse like they used to. Wanting to become part of the group, I say that the bar owner should put up a sign and do a little advertising since that's what other bars do. Then thay say I have no right to criticise since I haven't ever been in the bar and they've been patrons since the dinosaur age. Hmmm. Ok I'll shut up and I'll also probably not ever come back. Cheers. BTW, I think we've beaten this to a pulp. I don't intend to add to this thread anymore (unless severely provoked). |
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John Fereira wrote:
Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible, because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader. |
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On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:
John Fereira wrote: Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible, because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader. I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means. There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the same descriptions. Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are posted. HTH BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?" --riverman |
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On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote:
On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote: John Fereira wrote: Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible, because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader. I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means. There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the same descriptions. Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are posted. HTH BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?" --riverman So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that means...... |
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On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote: On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote: John Fereira wrote: Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible, because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader. I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means. There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the same descriptions. Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are posted. HTH BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?" --riverman So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that means...... Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps. BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search. IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings. You can see the reply tree, too. Plus, you don't have to load any special readers and junk. But of course, there's the tempation to top- post. |
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"Moby Dick" wrote in
ups.com: On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote: On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote: On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote: John Fereira wrote: Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible, because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader. I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means. There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the same descriptions. Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are posted. HTH BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?" --riverman So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that means...... First of all, congrats on the new job offer. Seems to me that if you've been posting in rec.woodworking that the may be a cedar strip built kayak in your future. Here's the model that I built (http://www.outer-island.com/) . You might want to check out the definitive kayak building site at: http://www.kayakforum.com/ Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps. BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search. IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings. You can see the reply tree, too. Most good news readers will do that as well. The one I have has a scoring feature that allows you to filter out or hightling posters (or subjects) and will thread responses as well. Plus, you don't have to load any special readers and junk. My take on that is that the alternative is trying to use one application that tries to do web browsing, usenet reading/posting, email, etc, which tends to bring in a lot of overhead that I don't need at the time. But I'm a programmer analyst/systems architect so I'm a bit more sensative to that sort of thing. But of course, there's the tempation to top- post. As you can see from my response, I neither top posted nor bottom posted but posted all my content inline. I prefer that approach as it puts the new content I am adding in context. Yes, usenet etiquette is a bit bizarre, and it is somewhat antiquated, but it still works and in many ways I prefer it to web based forums and email lists. I don't see nearly as much spam on usenet anymore as I used to and it's far less than what I see in the dozens of mailing lists I'm on. Good luck in your quest for a new kayak. If you have any questions about a specific model you encounter, let us know. |
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On Feb 13, 5:07 am, John Fereira wrote:
"Moby Dick" wrote roups.com: On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote: On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote: On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote: John Fereira wrote: Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group. This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group. How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible, because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader. I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means. There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the same descriptions. Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are posted. HTH BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?" --riverman So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that means...... First of all, congrats on the new job offer. Seems to me that if you've been posting in rec.woodworking that the may be a cedar strip built kayak in your future. Here's the model that I built (http://www.outer-island.com/) . You might want to check out the definitive kayak building site at:http://www.kayakforum.com/ Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps. BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search. IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings. You can see the reply tree, too. Most good news readers will do that as well. The one I have has a scoring feature that allows you to filter out or hightling posters (or subjects) and will thread responses as well. Plus, you don't have to load any special readers and junk. My take on that is that the alternative is trying to use one application that tries to do web browsing, usenet reading/posting, email, etc, which tends to bring in a lot of overhead that I don't need at the time. But I'm a programmer analyst/systems architect so I'm a bit more sensative to that sort of thing. But of course, there's the tempation to top- post. As you can see from my response, I neither top posted nor bottom posted but posted all my content inline. I prefer that approach as it puts the new content I am adding in context. Yes, usenet etiquette is a bit bizarre, and it is somewhat antiquated, but it still works and in many ways I prefer it to web based forums and email lists. I don't see nearly as much spam on usenet anymore as I used to and it's far less than what I see in the dozens of mailing lists I'm on. Good luck in your quest for a new kayak. If you have any questions about a specific model you encounter, let us know. Wow, I'm impressed with the beauty of the cedar strip kayaks! A friend of a friend of mine build sea kayaks. I visited his shop two years ago. IIRC, he had a light wooden cover which he then covered with a fabric and then soaked it with some sort of epoxy. The epoxy basically made the fabric transparent making the beautiful wood show through. I thought then that I'd love to do that. However, the resulting boats seemed more of an artwork than a functioning boat. I'd be afraid from scratching or bashing it on rocks..... Thanks for the link to kayak forum. I've bookmarked it. Cheers |
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"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
... JohnKuthe wrote: It's real quiet here even when there is water running! We ran the Illinois river (SW Oregon) over New Year's. I would've written a trip report but didn't have time. On New Year's Eve, we managed to stay up until 12 midnight east coast time! Which was 9:00 Pacific. The moon was intermittenly hiding behind clouds, but our backs got cold even with a big fire. Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-( What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear. I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin... I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a better choice. -- www.mattclara.com |
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Matt Clara wrote:
What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear. I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin... I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a better choice. TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel? Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg. Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting. |
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On Apr 12, 2:22 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
Matt Clara wrote: What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear. I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin... I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a better choice. TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel? Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg. Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting. Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. |
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Siskuwihane wrote:
Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. |
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On Apr 13, 10:47 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. When I lived in Latvia, I had a Nissan Terrano, which is the European version of a Pathfinder. It was a 2-door, with a full sized cargo space. It had a 5 speed manual tranny, a 2.2 liter engine, 4 wheel drive, and would go over 100 mph if I wanted it to. But at highway speed (65-70 mph), it got 35+ miles per gallon. In the US, they won't sell this vehicle with such a small engine, and with all the pollution controls, oversized frame, extra heavy bumper, extra steel in the doors, trunk, gas tank, etc etc etc, it gets 11-15 miles per gallon. --riverman |
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On Apr 12, 10:47 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? Yes they did move it inside. It also doesn't come with the little picnic table that covers the rear storage area (now spare tire storage). Not that it would be a deal breaker with me, but it's very convenient having that "waterproof" under-the-picnic table storage area where I can throw wet things. I've only got 90k on my '99 so I'll hold on to it for a little while longer. |
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Bill Tuthill wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4 :-)). -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko wrote:
Bill Tuthill wrote: Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4 :-)). Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much maintenance didi each require? Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same mistake over and over! ;-) John Kuthe... |
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JohnKuthe wrote:
On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko wrote: Bill Tuthill wrote: Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4 :-)). Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much maintenance didi each require? Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same mistake over and over! ;-) John Kuthe... The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well. -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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On Apr 16, 3:07 am, Wilko wrote:
JohnKuthe wrote: On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko wrote: Bill Tuthill wrote: Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4 :-)). Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much maintenance didi each require? Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same mistake over and over! ;-) John Kuthe... The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well. Must be nice! I guess United Statesians aren't the only ones who are filthily rich, eh? ;-) John Kuthe... |
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On Apr 16, 4:07 pm, Wilko wrote:
JohnKuthe wrote: On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko wrote: Bill Tuthill wrote: Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4 :-)). Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much maintenance didi each require? Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same mistake over and over! ;-) John Kuthe... The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well. -- So do you think owning is preferable to leasing? If this was a lease car, you'd be on the verge of replacing it with a new car. It seems that you're committed to driving your current car into the dirt now. --riverman |
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riverman wrote:
On Apr 16, 4:07 pm, Wilko wrote: JohnKuthe wrote: On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko wrote: Bill Tuthill wrote: Siskuwihane wrote: Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US in 2008. That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports. Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model) and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically. Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma. The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down, the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell. Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4 :-)). Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much maintenance didi each require? Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same mistake over and over! ;-) John Kuthe... The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well. -- So do you think owning is preferable to leasing? If this was a lease car, you'd be on the verge of replacing it with a new car. It seems that you're committed to driving your current car into the dirt now. I think it depends. I became a student after working for the past 7 years, so leasing is not an option any more. Also, I stopped driving to work every working day and I stopped driving to the Czech Republic every second weekend, which cut my annual miles from 65K to roughly 10K now. In my view leasing in this country is only interesting if: -your company pays for the lease contract with a tax free personal budget, -you can afford it and -if you drive (a lot) more than what your lease contract is for. In my case, I'd pay the lease company (through the company I worked for) for 25K miles a year and drive well over 65K miles a year. If I had to pay the lease company out of my own pocket, I'd pay using after taxes money (bye bye 42%) but still have to pay the full amount (1150 euro incl. fuel per month, add roughly 33% for the price in US$). I can afford my own car, since I drive miles less now than what a minimum lease contract goes for and since this car is used. I couldn't afford the 65K miles a year, especially not out of my non-existent paycheck. -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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JohnKuthe wrote:
On Apr 16, 3:07 am, Wilko wrote: The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well. Must be nice! I guess United Statesians aren't the only ones who are filthily rich, eh? ;-) Hmmm, I bet that you make a lot more money than me this year, John! In my view, keeping a relationship going, especially a long distance one like I had, requires investing in it, even if that means investing most of what you earn. In my case I invested a lot of time, money and energy to do the 600mile (one way) trip every second weekend for so many years. On top of that I had dirt cheap living accomodations (76 euro/month rent for one tiny room). -- Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.--- http://kayaker.nl/ |
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Siskuwihane wrote:
That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back. Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model? Yes they did move it inside. It also doesn't come with the little picnic table that covers the rear storage area (now spare tire storage). Not that it would be a deal breaker with me, but it's very convenient having that "waterproof" under-the-picnic table storage area where I can throw wet things. Grumble. I've only got 90k on my '99 so I'll hold on to it for a while longer. Good plan. I just did a Compare Models with a Toyota RAV4 on the Consumer Reports website. The RAV4 4-cylinder gets better mileage in the city, 17 vs 15, but the same 29 mpg on the highway. The RAV4 has much more cargo space, probably due to the spare tire design. The RAV4 is faster, 9.8 vs 10.6 seconds to 60 mph. In the gov't crash test, the CR-V scored better for front passenger safety, excellent vs good. The RAV4 is slightly longer but weighs less. |
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"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
... Matt Clara wrote: What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear. I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin... I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a better choice. TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel? Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg. Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting. What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--? -- www.mattclara.com |
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