real quiet
 

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
group.




On Feb 11, 3:14 pm, Michael Daly wrote:
Moby Dick wrote:
Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word
"kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone
should add it.

It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about
kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other
paddlers.

The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle
Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to
post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other
venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate
back here.

Mike

real quiet
 

"Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

real quiet
 

On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote:
"Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

real quiet
 

Moby Dick wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote:
"Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.

John was simply reacting to your approach and lack of relevant knwoledge
about how usenet functions. Read up a bit about what newsgroups are and
what is involved in forming them before coming on and suggesting things
that aren't relevant or appropriate. Also, RBP has been around for a
long time, and the reasons you gave for wanting to change the name
aren't going to change the usenet conventions that it adheres to.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

real quiet
 

"Moby Dick" wrote in
ups.com:

On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote:
"Moby Dick" wrote in
news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.

There is no membership involved. Rec.boats.paddle is an open forum that can
be accessed numerous ways. Many use a usenet newsreader application such as
Forte free agent, Xnews, and for the really old school types, a program
called "trn". Google groups and Yahoo groups merely provide web based front
ends to the group and may provide keyword searching capabilities but all
they're really searching is the content of the posts. As is the case for
most usenet groups the content focus is defined by a charter which is voted
on when the group is initially proposed. In this case, the charter
describes a group for discussion of topics related to boats that can be
paddled, though there have been past discussions about whitewater rafting
(with uses oars rather than paddles), and the use of sails on kayaks. As is
the case for most usenet groups, topics do appear or drift outside the
scope of the original charter but most try to relate their content, even if
tangentially to paddling boats. To confuse things even more, in the UK they
call kayaks a "canoe" and when we start talking about traditional kayaking
alternative spellings appear (Qajaq) or specific types of kayaks (Baidarka)
might show up. Thus, a thread on the merits of a bifurcated bow on a
Baidarka might never contain the words kayak or canoe but it is very much
about paddling a kayak.

As I said, I (nor I doubt) anyone else here has any intention of
discouraging you or anyone else from participating in this group. The
questions that you ask regarding the materials used for kayaks are good ones
and at least a couple of people have taken the time to provide answers.
There is a vast amount of knowledge available here about kayaks, canoes, and
related topics and, for the most part, the atmosphere is quite civil. From
time to time, people do show up that only seem to want to be argumentative
and disruptive, but that's the nature of usenet.

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's
fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing",
"paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will
stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that
you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have
any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or
Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since
1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how
long I've been participating and there are several here that were
around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from
particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around
for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it
for many years how to use the group.

real quiet
 

On Feb 12, 12:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.

Hee hee. Welcome to Usenet....a thick skin is usually pretty helpful.
Mostly because sometimes things sound worse than they are intended.

There are a host of traditions on Usenet, probably because of human
nature (when people get together, they seem to make rules), and
someone new to the medium often doesn't realize that many many many
other people have trodden that way before. John wasn't being
condescending (we get people here who ARE condescending, and you can
really tell the difference), but was mentioning that the newsgroup
doesn't have any 'keywords' per se. When people do a search of the
group, they are only getting hits on words that have been included in
people's posts. AFAIK (as far as I know), there isn't anywhere to even
PUT 'keywords'.

There IS a FAQ somewhere, and I'm sure it mentions kayaks, etc. Can
anyone provide the link?

While we're on the subject of rules and FAQs, top-posting is
discouraged also. Something to do with how the messages 'read' if you
want to look through the leading-in conversation. And also while we're
at it, I'm risking the danger of being labeled a 'net nanny' for
pointing this out....mea culpa.

Meanwhile, welcome aboard. Where do you paddle?

--riverman

real quiet
 

On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.
Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
my notion of membership.

I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?

In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
1985."

I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
rented.





Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

real quiet
 

Moby Dick wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.
Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
my notion of membership.

Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was
very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like
Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of
usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at),
but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in
newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this
group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups
or participate in usenet.

On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary
newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is
posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect.


I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?

It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep,
you do that.

In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
1985."

The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a
couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their
private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since
newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't
being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a
community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do
provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of
behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of
the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums.
So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this
newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some
of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends.

I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
rented.

Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-)

Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it
change, participate.

Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the
doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in
front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says
"welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or
without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and
without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"?
On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they
don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats...

Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there,
who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

real quiet
 

On Feb 12, 8:19 am, Wilko wrote:
Moby Dick wrote:
On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira wrote: "Moby Dick" wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.
Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
my notion of membership.

Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was
very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like
Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of
usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at),
but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in
newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this
group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups
or participate in usenet.

On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary
newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is
posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect.



I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?

It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep,
you do that.

In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
1985."

The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a
couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their
private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since
newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't
being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a
community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do
provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of
behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of
the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums.
So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this
newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some
of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends.

I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
rented.

Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-)

Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it
change, participate.

Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the
doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in
front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says
"welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or
without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and
without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"?
On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they
don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats...

Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there,
who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---http://kayaker.nl/

Thanks for the explanation. This is my first time NOT top-posting
which I think makes it harder to read from Google groups but here
goes...

I did not intend to be a troublemaker. Sorry if I was/am perceived as
such.

I like your metaphor but I think it changes a little bit from my point
of view. I think your metaphor should be.....

Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and sitting down to
have a drink when you overhear the few patrons there start complaining
that not enough people come into the bar anymore or, at least, they
don't want to converse like they used to. Wanting to become part of
the group, I say that the bar owner should put up a sign and do a
little advertising since that's what other bars do. Then thay say I
have no right to criticise since I haven't ever been in the bar and
they've been patrons since the dinosaur age. Hmmm. Ok I'll shut up and
I'll also probably not ever come back.

Cheers.

BTW, I think we've beaten this to a pulp. I don't intend to add to
this thread anymore (unless severely provoked).

real quiet
 

John Fereira wrote:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.