real quiet
 

On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:
John Fereira wrote:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.

I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure
that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so
you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY
provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing
through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the
same descriptions.

Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit,
all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual
newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of
these different newsreaders will have their own description of what
the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to
post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are
posted.

HTH

BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way
to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out
here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like
"What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"

--riverman

real quiet
 

On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote:
On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:



John Fereira wrote:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.

I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure
that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so
you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY
provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing
through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the
same descriptions.

Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit,
all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual
newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of
these different newsreaders will have their own description of what
the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to
post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are
posted.

HTH

BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way
to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out
here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like
"What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"

--riverman

So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
means......

real quiet
 

On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote:



On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:

John Fereira wrote:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.

How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.

I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure
that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so
you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY
provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing
through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the
same descriptions.

Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit,
all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual
newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of
these different newsreaders will have their own description of what
the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to
post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are
posted.

HTH

BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way
to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out
here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like
"What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"

--riverman

So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
means......

Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps.
BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search.
IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see
ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings.
You can see the reply tree, too. Plus, you don't have to load any
special readers and junk. But of course, there's the tempation to top-
post.

real quiet
 

"Moby Dick" wrote in
ups.com:

On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote:



On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:

John Fereira wrote:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's
fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing",
"paddling". That way people searching for any of the above
stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense
that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and
doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long
before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been
participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around
for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating
and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise
to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and
dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years
how to use the group.

How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.

I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a
structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is
google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts
on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone
is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they
won't see the same descriptions.

Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after
hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the
actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group.
Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description
of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable
you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the
messages are posted.

HTH

BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent
way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who
hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly
questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"

--riverman

So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
means......

First of all, congrats on the new job offer.

Seems to me that if you've been posting in rec.woodworking that the may be a
cedar strip built kayak in your future. Here's the model that I built
(http://www.outer-island.com/) . You might want to check out the definitive
kayak building site at: http://www.kayakforum.com/

Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps.
BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search.
IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see
ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings.
You can see the reply tree, too.

Most good news readers will do that as well. The one I have has a scoring
feature that allows you to filter out or hightling posters (or subjects) and
will thread responses as well.

Plus, you don't have to load any
special readers and junk.

My take on that is that the alternative is trying to use one application
that tries to do web browsing, usenet reading/posting, email, etc, which
tends to bring in a lot of overhead that I don't need at the time. But I'm
a programmer analyst/systems architect so I'm a bit more sensative to that
sort of thing.

But of course, there's the tempation to top-
post.

As you can see from my response, I neither top posted nor bottom posted but
posted all my content inline. I prefer that approach as it puts the new
content I am adding in context.

Yes, usenet etiquette is a bit bizarre, and it is somewhat antiquated, but
it still works and in many ways I prefer it to web based forums and email
lists. I don't see nearly as much spam on usenet anymore as I used to and
it's far less than what I see in the dozens of mailing lists I'm on.

Good luck in your quest for a new kayak. If you have any questions about a
specific model you encounter, let us know.

real quiet
 

On Feb 13, 5:07 am, John Fereira wrote:
"Moby Dick" wrote roups.com:



On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" wrote:
On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" wrote:

On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:

John Fereira wrote:

Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's
fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing",
"paddling". That way people searching for any of the above
stumble upon the group.

This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense
that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and
doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long
before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been
participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around
for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating
and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise
to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and
dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years
how to use the group.

How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.

I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a
structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is
google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts
on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone
is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they
won't see the same descriptions.

Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after
hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the
actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group.
Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description
of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable
you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the
messages are posted.

HTH

BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent
way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who
hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly
questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"

--riverman

So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
means......

First of all, congrats on the new job offer.

Seems to me that if you've been posting in rec.woodworking that the may be a
cedar strip built kayak in your future. Here's the model that I built
(http://www.outer-island.com/) . You might want to check out the definitive
kayak building site at:http://www.kayakforum.com/



Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps.
BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search.
IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see
ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings.
You can see the reply tree, too.

Most good news readers will do that as well. The one I have has a scoring
feature that allows you to filter out or hightling posters (or subjects) and
will thread responses as well.

Plus, you don't have to load any
special readers and junk.

My take on that is that the alternative is trying to use one application
that tries to do web browsing, usenet reading/posting, email, etc, which
tends to bring in a lot of overhead that I don't need at the time. But I'm
a programmer analyst/systems architect so I'm a bit more sensative to that
sort of thing.

But of course, there's the tempation to top-
post.

As you can see from my response, I neither top posted nor bottom posted but
posted all my content inline. I prefer that approach as it puts the new
content I am adding in context.

Yes, usenet etiquette is a bit bizarre, and it is somewhat antiquated, but
it still works and in many ways I prefer it to web based forums and email
lists. I don't see nearly as much spam on usenet anymore as I used to and
it's far less than what I see in the dozens of mailing lists I'm on.

Good luck in your quest for a new kayak. If you have any questions about a
specific model you encounter, let us know.


Wow, I'm impressed with the beauty of the cedar strip kayaks! A friend
of a friend of mine build sea kayaks. I visited his shop two years
ago. IIRC, he had a light wooden cover which he then covered with a
fabric and then soaked it with some sort of epoxy. The epoxy basically
made the fabric transparent making the beautiful wood show through. I
thought then that I'd love to do that. However, the resulting boats
seemed more of an artwork than a functioning boat. I'd be afraid from
scratching or bashing it on rocks.....

Thanks for the link to kayak forum. I've bookmarked it.

Cheers

real quiet
 

"Bill Tuthill" wrote in message
...
JohnKuthe wrote:

It's real quiet here even when there is water running!

We ran the Illinois river (SW Oregon) over New Year's. I would've
written a trip report but didn't have time. On New Year's Eve,
we managed to stay up until 12 midnight east coast time! Which was
9:00 Pacific. The moon was intermittenly hiding behind clouds,
but our backs got cold even with a big fire.

Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-(
RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(

What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.


I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough
and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen
Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The
engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin...

I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a
better choice.

--
www.mattclara.com

real quiet
 

Matt Clara wrote:

What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.

I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough
and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen
Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The
engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin...
I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a
better choice.

TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?

Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to
replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice
would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg.

Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting.

real quiet
 

On Apr 12, 2:22 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
Matt Clara wrote:

What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.

I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough
and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen
Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The
engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin...
I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a
better choice.

TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?

Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to
replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice
would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg.

Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting.

Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
in 2008.

real quiet
 

Siskuwihane wrote:

Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
in 2008.

That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?

The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.

Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.

Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.

real quiet
 

On Apr 13, 10:47 am, Bill Tuthill wrote:
Siskuwihane wrote:

Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
in 2008.

That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?

The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.

Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.

Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.

When I lived in Latvia, I had a Nissan Terrano, which is the European
version of a Pathfinder. It was a 2-door, with a full sized cargo
space. It had a 5 speed manual tranny, a 2.2 liter engine, 4 wheel
drive, and would go over 100 mph if I wanted it to. But at highway
speed (65-70 mph), it got 35+ miles per gallon.

In the US, they won't sell this vehicle with such a small engine, and
with all the pollution controls, oversized frame, extra heavy bumper,
extra steel in the doors, trunk, gas tank, etc etc etc, it gets 11-15
miles per gallon.

--riverman