"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ups.com...

basskisser wrote:

It's a shame that the work ethic has evolved to having to bribe someone
to get the service you are already paying for...

Or that the human heart has hardened to the point where an annual token
of appreciation
cannot be considered anything other than a bribe, as well as
unneccessary, because, after all, the service was "paid for".

Sometimes, the creativity of a tip becomes the reward in itself. Where I get
my car worked on, there are 3 guys. None of them eat donuts, or even the
best cheese danish in town, so that's out of the question. Two of them don't
drink, and I'm not so sure alcohol's a good gift anyway because you never
know, ya know? The guy who works on my car once spotted a hairline crack in
my brake rotor, which had just been installed by the Ford dealer, so as far
as I'm concerned, he may have saved my life. I tried to hand him some cash.
He said "I make plenty of money here, but I appreciate the gesture". So, I
sent him flowers, which he still laughs about five years later. I guess the
value of that gesture was that it DEFINITELY broke up his routine. :-)

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...


It's a shame that the work ethic has evolved to having to bribe someone
to get the service you are already paying for...


True, sort of. But, on the other hand, there are often opportunities for
new
workers to think about better ways of doing their jobs. It's not always
that
their work ethic is less than it should be. They're just young. These
opportunities are not always noticed. But when they are, it can become a
path to advancement, maybe more money, or just more job satisfaction.

Last year, my son worked as a dishwasher in a restaurant. One night, the
place was packed, but nobody new was coming in. So, the kitchen slowed
down
and he was caught up with his dishwashing, but the dining area was
packed.
He felt dumb just standing around, so he put on a clean apron, and backed
up
the waitresses with collecting dishes, filling water glasses, etc. When I
picked him up after his shift, he pulled $50 in singles out of his pocket
and said "Pops...the waitresses...the think I'm a god or something. They
just gave me all this".

He could've made a lot of money (for a kid), if the putz owner hadn't
gone
out of business.

Well, some industries, such as restaurant workers, are paid a pittance
and their real pay IS their gratuities. I don't think marina managers
count on them, though. I remember when I was a kid, it was semi
customary to give the mail carrier (rural) a little something for xmas.


Pay scales are wacky, too. At a bar where I play, the owner's soon-to-be son
in law is the cook. He just graduated from some big-name cooking school in
California. One of the best restaurants in town offered him a job as a line
chef. $9.75 per hour. This is a place where the cheapest entree is $25.00,
and they're busy all the time, non-stop. Meanwhile, my son's working as a
T&A observer, also known as a lifeguard. He's getting paid $8.85.

Oh, yeah. I have a friend who is a professional chef, and also
graduated from a fine cooking school. He worked for peanuts for years
before getting ahead enough to co-own his own place.

It's a shame that the work ethic has evolved to having to bribe someone
to get the service you are already paying for...


It's stupid to assume that you are "already paying" for
something just because you hand over a paltry amount of
bucks to somebody who may have had little to do with the
goods/services you are receiving. Can we ditch the Wal-Mart
mentality?


Or that the human heart has hardened to the point where an annual token
of appreciation
cannot be considered anything other than a bribe, as well as
unneccessary, because, after all, the service was "paid for".


It's not hard-hearted, it's just plain cheap & dumb.
Some people can live in Podunk all their lives and still
have some realization that the rest of the world is
different. Other people go out into the world for decades
and never realize that it's different from the Podunk they
came from... or if they do, they spend a lot of time
bemoaning the fact and fighting it.

In the U.S. it used to be considered degrading to beg for
money, or to accept money for what was expected of you (like
helping a lady fix a flat tire).

OTOH there have been many countries & cultures where
'baksheesh' was the norm. I'm more comfortable with the
former ideals & standards, and would suggest that it leads
to a more productive overall socio-economic system. But I
wouldn't argue the point strenuously, nor get huffy about
paying baksheesh in a place where it is the standard.



JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Sometimes, the creativity of a tip becomes the reward in itself. Where I get
my car worked on, there are 3 guys. None of them eat donuts, or even the
best cheese danish in town, so that's out of the question. Two of them don't
drink, and I'm not so sure alcohol's a good gift anyway because you never
know, ya know? The guy who works on my car once spotted a hairline crack in
my brake rotor, which had just been installed by the Ford dealer, so as far
as I'm concerned, he may have saved my life. I tried to hand him some cash.
He said "I make plenty of money here, but I appreciate the gesture". So, I
sent him flowers, which he still laughs about five years later. I guess the
value of that gesture was that it DEFINITELY broke up his routine. :-)


heh heh
sending a mechanic flowers... now that was cool... what
did the card say?

Regards
Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
It's a shame that the work ethic has evolved to having to bribe someone
to get the service you are already paying for...


It's stupid to assume that you are "already paying" for something just
because you hand over a paltry amount of bucks to somebody who may have
had little to do with the goods/services you are receiving. Can we ditch
the Wal-Mart mentality?


Or that the human heart has hardened to the point where an annual token
of appreciation
cannot be considered anything other than a bribe, as well as
unneccessary, because, after all, the service was "paid for".


It's not hard-hearted, it's just plain cheap & dumb.
Some people can live in Podunk all their lives and still have some
realization that the rest of the world is different. Other people go out
into the world for decades and never realize that it's different from the
Podunk they came from... or if they do, they spend a lot of time bemoaning
the fact and fighting it.

In the U.S. it used to be considered degrading to beg for money, or to
accept money for what was expected of you (like helping a lady fix a flat
tire).

OTOH there have been many countries & cultures where 'baksheesh' was the
norm. I'm more comfortable with the former ideals & standards, and would
suggest that it leads to a more productive overall socio-economic system.
But I wouldn't argue the point strenuously, nor get huffy about paying
baksheesh in a place where it is the standard.



JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Sometimes, the creativity of a tip becomes the reward in itself. Where I
get my car worked on, there are 3 guys. None of them eat donuts, or even
the best cheese danish in town, so that's out of the question. Two of
them don't drink, and I'm not so sure alcohol's a good gift anyway
because you never know, ya know? The guy who works on my car once spotted
a hairline crack in my brake rotor, which had just been installed by the
Ford dealer, so as far as I'm concerned, he may have saved my life. I
tried to hand him some cash. He said "I make plenty of money here, but I
appreciate the gesture". So, I sent him flowers, which he still laughs
about five years later. I guess the value of that gesture was that it
DEFINITELY broke up his routine. :-)

heh heh
sending a mechanic flowers... now that was cool... what did the card say?

Regards
Doug King


"Love, and stop putting those paper foot mats in my car" It's really a
great place. The guy's into handguns, so we talk. The other mechanic's a
really annoying lake trout charmer. Some people catch lake trout. Not Bruce.
He charms them into the boat. He takes orders from friends. If he wants 4,
he gets 4, anytime, always. It's nuts. To him, Lake Ontario is a vending
machine.

DSK wrote:
It's a shame that the work ethic has evolved to having to bribe someone
to get the service you are already paying for...


It's stupid to assume that you are "already paying" for
something just because you hand over a paltry amount of
bucks to somebody who may have had little to do with the
goods/services you are receiving. Can we ditch the Wal-Mart
mentality?

Not so. I offer professional services that are paid per negotiated
price as is in the contract. I go beyond the normal scope of work all
of the time to make sure things are done in budget and on time. I
suppose that I should expect a bonus for that? I don't, and I don't get
one. I get more work because of my reputation, though. Just handing
everyone a tip that performs a service to you IS stupid, however. Some
people would be down right offended by it.

.... Can we ditch the Wal-Mart
mentality?


basskisser wrote:
Not so. I offer professional services that are paid per negotiated
price as is in the contract. I go beyond the normal scope of work all
of the time to make sure things are done in budget and on time.

Uh huh

And you blithely assume that everybody works under the same
arrangement?

.... I
suppose that I should expect a bonus for that? I don't, and I don't get
one. I get more work because of my reputation, though.

In other words... you *DO* get a bonus after all


.... Just handing
everyone a tip that performs a service to you IS stupid, however. Some
people would be down right offended by it.


Read complete post before making retarded comments.

DSK

wrote in message
ups.com...
I keep my small sailboat in a marina year-round. Is it customary to tip
or give a present to the marina manager at Christmas? How much?

This is not a marina for the affluent. My boat is only worth about
$1600 and I pay $120 a month for the slip.

Thanks in advance!


I have never tipped the marina manager (normally the owner). We tip the gas
dock attendants. We purchased a party tray for all the marina employees
last spring after their hard work in keeping our boats from breaking free or
sinking. We purchased a bottle of Crown Royal for the property owner who
allowed us (and continues to do so) to store our boat over the winter on his
(industrial) property for free. However, we have never tipped the marina
or the marina owner/manager.

The bottom line is how *you* feel. If you want to do so perhaps you can buy
the entire marina crew a pizza lunch to show your thanks. ;-)

DSK wrote:
.... Can we ditch the Wal-Mart
mentality?


basskisser wrote:
Not so. I offer professional services that are paid per negotiated
price as is in the contract. I go beyond the normal scope of work all
of the time to make sure things are done in budget and on time.

Uh huh

And you blithely assume that everybody works under the same
arrangement?

No, and if you'd read a little better, you'd see that I've stated that
some people's job's pay scale from their employer is such that they are
essentially working for tips. Further, you'd see that I am being very
specific in the fact that we are talking about a marina manager. Do you
think that marina managers work for tips like waitstaff?

.... I
suppose that I should expect a bonus for that? I don't, and I don't get
one. I get more work because of my reputation, though.

In other words... you *DO* get a bonus after all

No, I don't. I simply get another job or more jobs from the same firm
because of my work ethic. I work just as hard at THAT job, too. I'm not
getting monetary gain just for doing my job.


.... Just handing
everyone a tip that performs a service to you IS stupid, however. Some
people would be down right offended by it.


Read complete post before making retarded comments.

I wouldn't have thought you'd be the type to start petty and childish
insults when you are trying to have an intelligent debate, but you've
proved me wrong on that count....

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
It's a shame that the work ethic has evolved to having to bribe someone
to get the service you are already paying for...


It's stupid to assume that you are "already paying" for something just
because you hand over a paltry amount of bucks to somebody who may have
had little to do with the goods/services you are receiving. Can we ditch
the Wal-Mart mentality?


Or that the human heart has hardened to the point where an annual token
of appreciation
cannot be considered anything other than a bribe, as well as
unneccessary, because, after all, the service was "paid for".


It's not hard-hearted, it's just plain cheap & dumb.
Some people can live in Podunk all their lives and still have some
realization that the rest of the world is different. Other people go out
into the world for decades and never realize that it's different from the
Podunk they came from... or if they do, they spend a lot of time bemoaning
the fact and fighting it.

In the U.S. it used to be considered degrading to beg for money, or to
accept money for what was expected of you (like helping a lady fix a flat
tire).

OTOH there have been many countries & cultures where 'baksheesh' was the
norm. I'm more comfortable with the former ideals & standards, and would
suggest that it leads to a more productive overall socio-economic system.
But I wouldn't argue the point strenuously, nor get huffy about paying
baksheesh in a place where it is the standard.



JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
Sometimes, the creativity of a tip becomes the reward in itself. Where I
get my car worked on, there are 3 guys. None of them eat donuts, or even
the best cheese danish in town, so that's out of the question. Two of
them don't drink, and I'm not so sure alcohol's a good gift anyway
because you never know, ya know? The guy who works on my car once spotted
a hairline crack in my brake rotor, which had just been installed by the
Ford dealer, so as far as I'm concerned, he may have saved my life. I
tried to hand him some cash. He said "I make plenty of money here, but I
appreciate the gesture". So, I sent him flowers, which he still laughs
about five years later. I guess the value of that gesture was that it
DEFINITELY broke up his routine. :-)

heh heh
sending a mechanic flowers... now that was cool... what did the card say?

Regards
Doug King


'I like your sandals!'?

Larry wrote:

Now, the marina manager isn't NEAR as important to you as those college
kids they call "dock hands" that pump the gas and walk the docks. THOSE
are the ones to tip! THOSE are the ones to make friends with, even if
you patently object to that little earring in his nose..

I don't think my marina is affluent enough to have dock hands. I've
never seen any.