I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil

wrote in message
ups.com...
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil


Register it as a home made trailer.

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Sep 2006 08:11:37 -0400, " JimH" not telling you @
pffftt.com wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Register it as a home made trailer.

Still has to have a VIN. And, at least in CT, they are real pricks
about homebuilds - in particular for trailers.

I speak from experience. :)

So do I. I only had a bill of sale also. The VIN on my trailer was not
legible. The clerk suggested it be registered as 'home made' and I got the
tags and registration. ;-)

wrote:
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil


You were pretty foolish, frankly, to purchase a trailer from somebody
who could provide absolutely no proof that he even owned it in the
first place. You situation may not be resolveable. If you will send me
just $50,000, cash of course, I'll furnish you with a bill of sale for
the house immediately next door to yours. Pretty good deal- you'll have
a lot that's suddenly twice as big and a rental to boot.

(One reason peeole sell things with no title and no registration is
that the lien isn't satisfied).

Sometimes people sell cars, trucks, trailers, etc without a title
and/or registration simply because they have lost the paperwork. That's
OK, if you know that's truly the situation, and nearly all states deal
with that the same way.

You probably don't have any real recourse through e-bay if the guy
disclosed in his offering that he didn't have a title or registration
for the trailer and that he was selling with a bill of sale only.

One challenge with calling the trailer "home-made" is that in many
states (maybe not all) the state is going to ask you to present your
trailer for inspection before they will license it. (When you
"Home-made" that thing, did you rig it with the proper lights? Weld it
properly? etc?) Unless Mr. Magoo is the inspector, somebody will see
that your trailer is factory built, run the VIN number, (possibly) come
up with a registered owner in another state, and maybe give you a free
ride in a police cruiser down to where some nice man will ask you some
tough questions about why you were trying to misrepresent Joe Jones'
trailer as something you built yourself.


If your situation can be resolved honestly, here's how to work within
the system so that when *you* get ready to sell the trailer you're not
stuck. Or, if the trailer turns out to be stolen, you can deal with it
now rather than watch your boat get hauled in as "evidence"
the day they arrest you and impound the trailer.


There are 50 different license and titling laws in the US, one for
every state. This is general advice that will work in most states, but
may not work where you live.

1. Fist figure out what state the trailer was last licensed in. First
clue, does it have license plates? That's a start. In some states the
plates follow the person, not the vehicle, so the seller may have
removed the plates. If there are no plates, contact the seller and ask
if he took plates off the trailer before you picked it up.

2. If there are no plates, run the VIN through the databases in your
own and the immediately surrounding states. Odds are that the trailer
didn't travel too far from where it was last legitimately registered.
Of course try the seller's state first if he lives in a state other
than the state where you live.

3. If you run into a deadend with the surrounding states, call the
company that built the trailer and ask what dealer it was sold to.
Hopefully the trailer mfgr and the dealer are still in business. The
mfgr will be able to tell from the VIN what year the trailer was built,
so the mfgr and the dealer won't be looking through 1000's of records
to help you.
If the mfgr is still in business but the dealer has gone OOB, check the
licensing agency of the state where dealer was located....(assuming you
haven't already checked that state)

4. Your goal is to find the last person to whom the trailer was
legitimately registered.
That may not be the guy who sold it to you, but if not it might be the
guy who sold it to him or even one owner previous to that.

5. Once you have tracked down the last known legal owner (the last
person who held a title to the trailer or at least a registration in a
"reg-only" state), you need to have that person fill out a form called
(in most states) "Affadavit of Lost Title". While this can often be
used across state lines, your own state might not honor this affadavit
from another state. In that case you use the affadavit to first get a
title in the last legal owner's state or the last known legal owner
needs to have a new title/reg issued in his state and then transfer the
title/reg to you.

What about all the people who may have "owned" the trailer since the
last guy who was holding the title/reg? Forget 'em. In the eyes of the
law, they don't exist. (Something the last holder of the title/reg
would discover, to his sorrow, if that trailer were ever involved in
some sort of accident that inspired a victim to sue for damages).

Good luck. Don't get caught pulling that "mystery" trailer around
without papers.

wrote:
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil

Where are you? In Georgia, you only need a bill of sale.

Neil,

Yesterday I registered (in the Western US) a boat and trailer, neither
of which had any identifying marks or numbers. All I had was a vague
bill of sale. It took a minute or two, but finally the lady went to
her manager and he told her to create a new coast guard number for the
boat and a new entry for the trailer. I got to make up my own year and
manufacturer for both. The trailer is a home made job. I told her
that and don't know if it did anything to help move the process along.
Just tell them they're both custom-made--even if they aren't, in a way
they are...

Good luck

wrote:
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ps.com...

wrote:
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil


You were pretty foolish, frankly, to purchase a trailer from somebody
who could provide absolutely no proof that he even owned it in the
first place. You situation may not be resolveable. If you will send me
just $50,000, cash of course, I'll furnish you with a bill of sale for
the house immediately next door to yours. Pretty good deal- you'll have
a lot that's suddenly twice as big and a rental to boot.

(One reason peeole sell things with no title and no registration is
that the lien isn't satisfied).

Sometimes people sell cars, trucks, trailers, etc without a title
and/or registration simply because they have lost the paperwork. That's
OK, if you know that's truly the situation, and nearly all states deal
with that the same way.

You probably don't have any real recourse through e-bay if the guy
disclosed in his offering that he didn't have a title or registration
for the trailer and that he was selling with a bill of sale only.

One challenge with calling the trailer "home-made" is that in many
states (maybe not all) the state is going to ask you to present your
trailer for inspection before they will license it. (When you
"Home-made" that thing, did you rig it with the proper lights? Weld it
properly? etc?) Unless Mr. Magoo is the inspector, somebody will see
that your trailer is factory built, run the VIN number, (possibly) come
up with a registered owner in another state, and maybe give you a free
ride in a police cruiser down to where some nice man will ask you some
tough questions about why you were trying to misrepresent Joe Jones'
trailer as something you built yourself.


If your situation can be resolved honestly, here's how to work within
the system so that when *you* get ready to sell the trailer you're not
stuck. Or, if the trailer turns out to be stolen, you can deal with it
now rather than watch your boat get hauled in as "evidence"
the day they arrest you and impound the trailer.


There are 50 different license and titling laws in the US, one for
every state. This is general advice that will work in most states, but
may not work where you live.

1. Fist figure out what state the trailer was last licensed in. First
clue, does it have license plates? That's a start. In some states the
plates follow the person, not the vehicle, so the seller may have
removed the plates. If there are no plates, contact the seller and ask
if he took plates off the trailer before you picked it up.

2. If there are no plates, run the VIN through the databases in your
own and the immediately surrounding states. Odds are that the trailer
didn't travel too far from where it was last legitimately registered.
Of course try the seller's state first if he lives in a state other
than the state where you live.

3. If you run into a deadend with the surrounding states, call the
company that built the trailer and ask what dealer it was sold to.
Hopefully the trailer mfgr and the dealer are still in business. The
mfgr will be able to tell from the VIN what year the trailer was built,
so the mfgr and the dealer won't be looking through 1000's of records
to help you.
If the mfgr is still in business but the dealer has gone OOB, check the
licensing agency of the state where dealer was located....(assuming you
haven't already checked that state)

4. Your goal is to find the last person to whom the trailer was
legitimately registered.
That may not be the guy who sold it to you, but if not it might be the
guy who sold it to him or even one owner previous to that.

5. Once you have tracked down the last known legal owner (the last
person who held a title to the trailer or at least a registration in a
"reg-only" state), you need to have that person fill out a form called
(in most states) "Affadavit of Lost Title". While this can often be
used across state lines, your own state might not honor this affadavit
from another state. In that case you use the affadavit to first get a
title in the last legal owner's state or the last known legal owner
needs to have a new title/reg issued in his state and then transfer the
title/reg to you.

What about all the people who may have "owned" the trailer since the
last guy who was holding the title/reg? Forget 'em. In the eyes of the
law, they don't exist. (Something the last holder of the title/reg
would discover, to his sorrow, if that trailer were ever involved in
some sort of accident that inspired a victim to sue for damages).

Good luck. Don't get caught pulling that "mystery" trailer around
without papers.


I tend to agree with Chuck, you need to get a title search completed and
follow his recommended line of reasoning.

Fredo

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On 9 Sep 2006 05:00:43 -0700, wrote:

I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

What state is involved because sometimes the regs are a tad different.

In general, as long as you have a bill of sale and the trailer has a
VIN, it is registerable no matter what the DMV says. The reason is
that they can check back against the VIN to see if it's stolen, been
reported as damaged, etc.

The key is the VIN - if it doesn't have a VIN, then you might have a
problem. However, in most states that I'm aware of, there is an
inspection process by which the trailer can be assigned a VIN number
for that particular state.

Now, there may be an additional complication in that the state in
which you purchased the trailer may not be a title state. CT is like
that - titles are for motor vehicles only - boats, trailers, PWCs, off
road vehicles, tractors, etc., are not titled. It can create a
problem for selling items to surrounding states (NY/MA/RI) because
they are title states for everything vehicular. In that case, as long
as you have a bill of sale, the state cannot refuse your application
for registration. They can make it difficult, but they cannot refuse
you a registration. It's a question of patience.

Another way you can get around this is to transfer a registration from
one trailer to another. I had to do that once and it blew by the DMV
clerk like butter. :)

I recently had an old trailer that I sold to a fellow in MA - it could
take a 20 footer, he had an older Chris Craft that he had restored -
perfect match. As this trailer was of early '70s vintage, no VIN.
Simple procedure, went to the DMV, filled out the paperwork, took the
trailer to the inspection place, had the VIN assigned and that was
that. Sold the trailer to the MA resident. I will admit that the DMV
there tried to give him a hard time about the title, but it was pretty
useless exercise as the paperwork trail was intact.

The Halman I have has a CERKO trailer which did not have a VIN - it
was built in Canada in the early '80s. When I went to register it, I
immediately asked for a DMV supervisor, explained the situation
(bought the trailer with the boat, yada, yada, yada) and she explained
the process, gave me the correct paperwork, helped me fill it out and
off we went to inspection. Presto, trailer registered.

Sometimes all it takes is a polite question to the appropriate person
to help you get through the BS.

Good luck..


I can confirm that. I have a custom built motorcycle that does not have an
official certificate of origin or factory VIN number. The procedure in MA
was to have the state police inspect it ... record engine, frame and
transmission serial numbers, verifying that it met all safety requirements,
and then issuing a "MA VIN" number and sticker. Once that is done, it was
registered and issued a regular MA title. This procedure may be similar in
other states.

BTW ... the last I knew ... in MA, a trailer rated at up to 3000 lbs GVW
does not require a title although you can request one when you register it.
A simple bill of sale is all that is required to register. That is, unless
the law has been changed in the past couple of years.

Eisboch

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...

Your state of residence would help a lot. Bottom line is that there
are companies that exist for the sole purpose of producing the sort of
paperwork that you seek. You sense of satisfaction in "beating the
system" will be measure in your willingness to trade many $$$$ for a
non-existent, but necessary, piece of paper......


I went through this when I tried to register a '46 Ford modified streetrod
in MA. Here, any car purchased out of state (never had a MA title) that
does not have a 17 character VIN number (old cars only have 11 characters)
must be inspected by a local police officer to verify that the VIN is as it
appears on the out of state title. My problem with the old Ford was that
there was no VIN number anywhere on the car that we could find. At the
advice of a friend, I ordered a small, metal plate for 25 bucks that was
stamped with the VIN number and had a self adhesive backing. It actually was
pretty nice ... all gold plated. I stuck it on the inner door frame and
arranged for a police officer to inspect it. He didn't give it a second
look, other that verifying that the numbers were correct, signed the
paperwork and I had no problem getting the car registered and getting a
title.

Eisboch

in calif, i once bought a motorcycle and before the guy could give me
the papers he croaked. really. i went to dmv with the vin and told
them the story, said all i had to do was send a registered letter to
last registered owner, the deceased, when it comes back as
undeliverable with no forwarding they would accept as whatever. i did
it went back in and got my title no prob. i imagine it would be the
same if guy moved etc. it is owners responsibility to keep dmv
informed of current address. -gary

FREDO wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
ps.com...

wrote:
I have just bought a trailer on Ebay. It came with a bill of sale.
When I went to the DMV they told me I needed a title or they could not
help.

Any ideas on how to beat the system?

Neil


You were pretty foolish, frankly, to purchase a trailer from somebody
who could provide absolutely no proof that he even owned it in the
first place. You situation may not be resolveable. If you will send me
just $50,000, cash of course, I'll furnish you with a bill of sale for
the house immediately next door to yours. Pretty good deal- you'll have
a lot that's suddenly twice as big and a rental to boot.

(One reason peeole sell things with no title and no registration is
that the lien isn't satisfied).

Sometimes people sell cars, trucks, trailers, etc without a title
and/or registration simply because they have lost the paperwork. That's
OK, if you know that's truly the situation, and nearly all states deal
with that the same way.

You probably don't have any real recourse through e-bay if the guy
disclosed in his offering that he didn't have a title or registration
for the trailer and that he was selling with a bill of sale only.

One challenge with calling the trailer "home-made" is that in many
states (maybe not all) the state is going to ask you to present your
trailer for inspection before they will license it. (When you
"Home-made" that thing, did you rig it with the proper lights? Weld it
properly? etc?) Unless Mr. Magoo is the inspector, somebody will see
that your trailer is factory built, run the VIN number, (possibly) come
up with a registered owner in another state, and maybe give you a free
ride in a police cruiser down to where some nice man will ask you some
tough questions about why you were trying to misrepresent Joe Jones'
trailer as something you built yourself.


If your situation can be resolved honestly, here's how to work within
the system so that when *you* get ready to sell the trailer you're not
stuck. Or, if the trailer turns out to be stolen, you can deal with it
now rather than watch your boat get hauled in as "evidence"
the day they arrest you and impound the trailer.


There are 50 different license and titling laws in the US, one for
every state. This is general advice that will work in most states, but
may not work where you live.

1. Fist figure out what state the trailer was last licensed in. First
clue, does it have license plates? That's a start. In some states the
plates follow the person, not the vehicle, so the seller may have
removed the plates. If there are no plates, contact the seller and ask
if he took plates off the trailer before you picked it up.

2. If there are no plates, run the VIN through the databases in your
own and the immediately surrounding states. Odds are that the trailer
didn't travel too far from where it was last legitimately registered.
Of course try the seller's state first if he lives in a state other
than the state where you live.

3. If you run into a deadend with the surrounding states, call the
company that built the trailer and ask what dealer it was sold to.
Hopefully the trailer mfgr and the dealer are still in business. The
mfgr will be able to tell from the VIN what year the trailer was built,
so the mfgr and the dealer won't be looking through 1000's of records
to help you.
If the mfgr is still in business but the dealer has gone OOB, check the
licensing agency of the state where dealer was located....(assuming you
haven't already checked that state)

4. Your goal is to find the last person to whom the trailer was
legitimately registered.
That may not be the guy who sold it to you, but if not it might be the
guy who sold it to him or even one owner previous to that.

5. Once you have tracked down the last known legal owner (the last
person who held a title to the trailer or at least a registration in a
"reg-only" state), you need to have that person fill out a form called
(in most states) "Affadavit of Lost Title". While this can often be
used across state lines, your own state might not honor this affadavit
from another state. In that case you use the affadavit to first get a
title in the last legal owner's state or the last known legal owner
needs to have a new title/reg issued in his state and then transfer the
title/reg to you.

What about all the people who may have "owned" the trailer since the
last guy who was holding the title/reg? Forget 'em. In the eyes of the
law, they don't exist. (Something the last holder of the title/reg
would discover, to his sorrow, if that trailer were ever involved in
some sort of accident that inspired a victim to sue for damages).

Good luck. Don't get caught pulling that "mystery" trailer around
without papers.


I tend to agree with Chuck, you need to get a title search completed and
follow his recommended line of reasoning.

Fredo