On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 16:20:14 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:45:56 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:24:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:20:09 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

Unions are composed of teachers and the union hierarchy. The unionized
teachers *do* write tests.

If we're speaking classroom tests, that is true.

If we're speaking about performance tests or state standard tests or
mastery tests, no.

The problem with that reasoning is the whole education establishment
is so vertically integrated that it is virtually the same group of
people from the state board of education right down to the students in
a teacher's college. It is a culture that has very little contact with
anyone outside the education community.

Hmmmm - and how is that different from, say NASA or IBM?

I just saw that a contract has been let from NASA to Lockheed/Martin
to build, get this, another capsule system to reach the moon and
beyond.

40 year old updated technology - where's the innovation?

A contract negotiated during golf games and expensive dinners, followed by
promises of a lucrative private job after leaving NASA? That's innovative.
It happens all the time.


It also happens in the education system.
John

Is THAT why there were 123 soda machines in my son's high school until
recently?


You didn't know the system was getting a kickback from Coca Cola? Parents
should go in and paint a cross on every soda and candy machine. Then the
ACLU would get them out of the schools!
--
******************************************
***** Hope your day is great! *****
******************************************

John

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

A contract negotiated during golf games and expensive dinners, followed
by
promises of a lucrative private job after leaving NASA? That's
innovative.
It happens all the time.


It also happens in the education system.
John

Is THAT why there were 123 soda machines in my son's high school until
recently?


You didn't know the system was getting a kickback from Coca Cola? Parents
should go in and paint a cross on every soda and candy machine. Then the
ACLU would get them out of the schools!

I like that idea.

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:00:52 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 11:47:42 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 15:12:20 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 07:28:56 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 10:20:09 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:07:42 -0400, JohnH wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:27:37 -0400, Gene Kearns wrote:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:22:16 -0400, JohnH wrote:

If the students can do nothing, and they pass the tests, then the tests may
be too easy, or the 'passing' standard is too low (most likely, due to
politics and unions, the latter).

Unions make a convenient whipping boy, but to my knowledge, they have
never written a test.

There is a lot of politics in education, however. Problem is: ****ed
off parents are also voters. The message needs to be that lenient
parenting is NOT helping the kid.....
--


Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC. http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/
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We agree on your last point!

Unions are composed of teachers and the union hierarchy. The unionized
teachers *do* write tests.

If we're speaking classroom tests, that is true.

If we're speaking about performance tests or state standard tests or
mastery tests, no.

Many teachers move to school administration jobs.

No they don't and if they do, it's very early in their careers.

It's a whole separate certification process to be an administrator
requiring almost PhD level requirements.

Many texts and tests are written by former educators.

Also not true. They may be "educators" in the sense that they have
credentials as educators, but many have never seen a classroom in
their lives.

Tom, I've several friends who've gone from teaching to working at various
support/administrative positions at both the county and state levels.

Here is a job announcement for the type position I'm referring to. Notice
that there are other qualifications than the 'post graduate (not PhD)
education requirements:

***********************************

Coordinator III, Standards of Learning and Remediation
Job Number 5598
Location Lacey Center
Job Type Central Administrator/Manager
Contract Length 260-Day Contract
Full or Part-time Full-time
Grade US-27
Closing Date Sep 06, 2006

Description and Qualifications
Middle School Instruction

Description:
Plans, manages, and coordinates program and personnel for Standards of
Learning and remediation in the office of Middle School Curriculum and
Instruction; and exercises leadership to design, implement, assess, and
revise a curriculum service or other educational program.

Qualifications:
Postgraduate Professional License with teaching endorsement(s) with
administration and supervision preK-12 endorsement preferred OR with
job-specific related credentials, plus 6 years' progressive experience in
teaching and/or administration and supervision OR related experience in
Standards of Learning and remediation. Knowledge of philosophy, goals,
procedures, organization, and the professional specialties of Standards of
Learning and remediation. Familiarity with applicable regulations,
legislation, and policies. Knowledge of public education organization and
administrative requirements in Standards of Learning and remediation.
Ability to manage and coordinate programs and to supervise and evaluate
personnel.
************************************************ *

Six years of instruction hardly makes a good teacher.

Good? I said nothing about it and don't see the bearing.
--
******************************************
***** Hope your day is great! *****
******************************************

John

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 14:49:35 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 18:00:52 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote:

Six years of instruction hardly makes a good teacher.

I think the real problerm with teaching is the only qualification they
really recognize is diplomas from their own education system. I
volunteered at the local middle school a while, assisting in teaching
environmental education and water quality. I had to quit because the
the administration got their panties in a wad over my lack of a
college degree.
I had also tried to get involved in the computer lab, same result, in
spite of the fact that I had 30 years of computer experience and
several teaching it.
I could grade papers, clean up after class and do a few other menial
tasks but I couldn't really do anything with the students.

Smells like a union to me.

Since a whole lot of 'college degrees (especially 'education' degrees) are
worthless as the teats on a boar hog, I can understand your point.
--
******************************************
***** Hope your day is great! *****
******************************************

John