Simple question:

What is a sport boat?
or
What is the 'definition' of sport boat?

Looking at them 'from a distance' I think I have gathered
that a J 24 is not a sport boat but both J 80 and Melges 24
are. How come? Because they plane more readily?

How small can a sport boat be without becoming a dinghy?
How big? Is a Melges 30 still regarded as a sport boat?

Could a multuhull be a sport boat or is that too blasphemous?

Cheers,

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Martin Schöön wrote:
Simple question:

What is a sport boat?
or
What is the 'definition' of sport boat?


There are a number of rules of thumb that some clubs &
regatta organizers use to decide what is & what is not a
sportboat, but so far there is not really a concise
technical definition.


Looking at them 'from a distance' I think I have gathered
that a J 24 is not a sport boat but both J 80 and Melges 24
are. How come? Because they plane more readily?


J-24 SA/D=22.6 D/L=145
J-80 SA/D=26.6 D/L=122
Melges 24 SA/D=32.1 D/L=73



How small can a sport boat be without becoming a dinghy?

I think part of the definition is that it has to be
self-righting, hence the bulb keels.


How big? Is a Melges 30 still regarded as a sport boat?


Definitely yes!


Could a multuhull be a sport boat or is that too blasphemous?


I dunno about blasphemy, but why would you want to race
against multis against monos? There only be a small amount
of fun in winning, like defeating a ten year old at chess or
judo; and imagine the ignominy of (don't even think it!) one
might lose.

If the performance ratios were the main guide, then most
multihulls would easily qualify IMHO.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On 27 Aug 2006 23:10:14 +0200, (Martin Schöön)
wrote:

Simple question:

What is a sport boat?
or
What is the 'definition' of sport boat?

Simple question, not quite as easy to answer.

The vast majority of true sport boats have sprit poles, large
asymmetric spinnakers, and are quick to reach planing speeds when off
the wind. Being able to plane implies a high ratio of sail area to
displacement of course, but it would be difficult to come up with a
hard number cutoff.

Regarding sport boats vs dinghys, sport boats have at least a minimal
cabin and sleeping accomodations in all of the cases that I'm aware
of. Sport boats will also have a ballast keel but that will not keep
them from capsizing if hard pressed or mis-handled.

Wayne.B wrote:
(Martin Schöön) wrote:

What is a sport boat?
or
What is the 'definition' of sport boat?


Simple question, not quite as easy to answer.

The vast majority of true sport boats have sprit poles, large
asymmetric spinnakers, and are quick to reach planing speeds when off
the wind. Being able to plane implies a high ratio of sail area to
displacement of course, but it would be difficult to come up with a
hard number cutoff.

Regarding sport boats vs dinghys, sport boats have at least a minimal
cabin and sleeping accomodations in all of the cases that I'm aware
of. Sport boats will also have a ballast keel but that will not keep
them from capsizing if hard pressed or mis-handled.

How about this for a working definition:

"A monohull keelboat that's capable of planing."

//Walt

DSK writes:

Martin Schöön wrote:
snip
Looking at them 'from a distance' I think I have gathered
that a J 24 is not a sport boat but both J 80 and Melges 24
are. How come? Because they plane more readily?


J-24 SA/D=22.6 D/L=145
J-80 SA/D=26.6 D/L=122
Melges 24 SA/D=32.1 D/L=73

Not a huge difference between the J boats I think.

How small can a sport boat be without becoming a dinghy?

I think part of the definition is that it has to be self-righting,
hence the bulb keels.

Ah, that rules out the J-24: Back in 1982 I met a guy who told me
that everyone who told me it was impossible to capsize monos
didn't know what they were talking about. He had hugged a keel
of a J-24 after a violent gybe. The J-24 stayed 180 untill helped
back on its feet.

Could a multuhull be a sport boat or is that too blasphemous?


I dunno about blasphemy, but why would you want to race against multis
against monos? There only be a small amount of fun in winning, like
defeating a ten year old at chess or judo; and imagine the ignominy of
(don't even think it!) one might lose.

You are reading something into the question that isn't there.

If the performance ratios were the main guide, then most multihulls
would easily qualify IMHO.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

DSK writes:

Martin Schöön wrote:
snip
I forgot one thing in my previous response.
Are the numbers below based on empty boat weight or sailing displacement
with crew?

J-24 SA/D=22.6 D/L=145
J-80 SA/D=26.6 D/L=122
Melges 24 SA/D=32.1 D/L=73

snip

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:56:35 -0400, Walt
wrote:

How about this for a working definition:

"A monohull keelboat that's capable of planing."

Doesn't work for me, there are lots of monohull keelboats that are
capable of planing under certain conditions. I used to race on a B-29
that was right on the cusp of almost being a sport boat but it really
wasn't. Downwind with 20+ kts it was one exciting ride however, and
we once planed at 17 to 18 kts for over 2 miles. The B-29 carried a
conventional spinnaker pole which enabled it to go lower on a
spinnaker run than a true sport boat, but also at lower speed.

On 28 Aug 2006 18:33:56 +0200, (Martin Schöön)
wrote:

I met a guy who told me
that everyone who told me it was impossible to capsize monos
didn't know what they were talking about. He had hugged a keel
of a J-24 after a violent gybe. The J-24 stayed 180 untill helped
back on its feet.

There are any number of J-24s that have been capsized and sunk,
including several at one time in the same race. I once knew a guy who
had turtled one on Long Island Sound. It stayed afloat for a while
but eventually the cabin air escaped through the sink drain and it
sank.

Harry Krause writes:


A sport boat, like a sports car, is a vehicle so small and tight that
only a 16-year-old can get laid in it without needing to visit a
chiropractor afterwards.

Very good :-)

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein

Wayne.B writes:

had turtled one on Long Island Sound. It stayed afloat for a while
but eventually the cabin air escaped through the sink drain and it
sank.

I will point that out whenever people complain about the creature
comforts of my boat :-)

--
Martin Schöön "Problems worthy of attack
show their worth by hitting back."
Piet Hein