I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has been
"in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking for
reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to scrimp on
buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle is
for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would hardly blink
about spending that kind of money on equipment for their passion, that's a
significant commitment for someone just entering the sport and still not
sure how into the sport they're going to get.

I've gone from the heavy Schlegel paddles to Spiderpaddles (prepreg
glass blades with a double thickness carbon/kevlar bent shaft) about six
years ago. Those paddles take several years of abuse (rock bashing on
low level streams) and gradually wear down the blades.

The one I have now (for the past two years) cost about 175 US$, the
previous one cost about 140 US$ at that time. Decent price for a good
paddle. I can't justify anything like 400 US$ on a paddle, no matter how
nice it is. Boats tend to outlast my paddles by a factor of at least
two, even though I haven't broken a paddle in maybe six or seven years,
that's just too much money for my taste.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Wilko wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has
been "in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking
for reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to
scrimp on buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle
is for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would
hardly blink about spending that kind of money on equipment for their
passion, that's a significant commitment for someone just entering the
sport and still not sure how into the sport they're going to get.

I've gone from the heavy Schlegel paddles to Spiderpaddles (prepreg
glass blades with a double thickness carbon/kevlar bent shaft) about
six years ago. Those paddles take several years of abuse (rock bashing
on low level streams) and gradually wear down the blades.

The one I have now (for the past two years) cost about 175 US$, the
previous one cost about 140 US$ at that time. Decent price for a good
paddle. I can't justify anything like 400 US$ on a paddle, no matter
how nice it is. Boats tend to outlast my paddles by a factor of at
least two, even though I haven't broken a paddle in maybe six or seven
years, that's just too much money for my taste.

Of course you're a whitewater paddler and the paddle I bought is a touring
paddle. I would imagine that sea kayak paddles tend to last a *lot* longer
than a WW paddle. Many sea kayakers will spend $2000-$3000 (or more) for a
touring boat. I know that prices on WW boats have gone up quite a bit over
the past few years but even $1500 would be at the top end. My guess would
be that equipment costs for sea kayaking (I'm not talking about recreational
class boats that sometimes sold as sea kayaks for beginners) are
significantly higher than for ww paddling.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:
Wilko wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has
been "in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking
for reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to
scrimp on buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle
is for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would
hardly blink about spending that kind of money on equipment for their
passion, that's a significant commitment for someone just entering the
sport and still not sure how into the sport they're going to get.
I've gone from the heavy Schlegel paddles to Spiderpaddles (prepreg
glass blades with a double thickness carbon/kevlar bent shaft) about
six years ago. Those paddles take several years of abuse (rock bashing
on low level streams) and gradually wear down the blades.

The one I have now (for the past two years) cost about 175 US$, the
previous one cost about 140 US$ at that time. Decent price for a good
paddle. I can't justify anything like 400 US$ on a paddle, no matter
how nice it is. Boats tend to outlast my paddles by a factor of at
least two, even though I haven't broken a paddle in maybe six or seven
years, that's just too much money for my taste.

Of course you're a whitewater paddler and the paddle I bought is a touring
paddle. I would imagine that sea kayak paddles tend to last a *lot* longer
than a WW paddle. Many sea kayakers will spend $2000-$3000 (or more) for a
touring boat. I know that prices on WW boats have gone up quite a bit over
the past few years but even $1500 would be at the top end. My guess would
be that equipment costs for sea kayaking (I'm not talking about recreational
class boats that sometimes sold as sea kayaks for beginners) are
significantly higher than for ww paddling.

You have a point there, John. For a starting paddler, it's probably
quite a bit more expensive if you buy everything new (I'm not familiar
with 2nd hand sea kayak prices). I'm not so sure that the hobby as a
whole costs more though, especially since boats and paddles do wear out
on whitewater, especially when (ab-)used by beginners, and the 2nd hand
prices of used boats remind me of those of used cars... The moment you
walk out of the shop, devaluation of the boat has already started.

I guess that when we're talking about the cost of the two branches of
kayaking as a whole, a lot depends upon where you live. In my country, a
lot of people sea kayak, simply because flat water and the North Sea are
available. Getting to whitewater involves long drives (at 6+ US$ per
gallon) and with our 40% tax (BPM and BTW) on cars, driving is a lot
more expensive per driven mile than it is on the other side of the big pond.

Then again, if you live in Colorado, sea kayaking might be the more
expensive hobby, purely based on the distance from the nearest available
salt water (Unless Salt Lake city counts... ;-))


--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Wilko wrote in
:

John Fereira wrote:
Wilko wrote in :

My guess would be that equipment costs for
sea kayaking (I'm not talking about recreational class boats that
sometimes sold as sea kayaks for beginners) are significantly higher
than for ww paddling.

You have a point there, John. For a starting paddler, it's probably
quite a bit more expensive if you buy everything new (I'm not familiar
with 2nd hand sea kayak prices).

And that's a good point as well. The used market, at least for a boat and
paddle, is a good way to get started.

Like a used car, the price you can expect to pay relative to what you'd pay
for the same model for a new boat can vary significantly depending on the
model, and then of course the condition the used boat is in. About 10 years
ago I bought a Valley Canoe Products Skerray (fiberglass) used for $1100.
At the time I think a new one sold for just over $2000. I could probably
*still* get around $1000 for it if I wanted to sell it. I've seen five year
old NDK Romany's advertised for $1900 and they'd sell at the price because
they're a desirable model.

I'm not so sure that the hobby as a
whole costs more though, especially since boats and paddles do wear out
on whitewater, especially when (ab-)used by beginners, and the 2nd hand
prices of used boats remind me of those of used cars... The moment you
walk out of the shop, devaluation of the boat has already started.

That's true, but except for some sea kayaks used in rental fleets, rarely do
you find boat that have deteriorated in terms of performance significantly.
I doubt that most would find that my 17 year old Skerray paddles measurably
different than a brand new Skerray (if one could find a 1989 model still in
shrink wrap).

I guess that when we're talking about the cost of the two branches of
kayaking as a whole, a lot depends upon where you live. In my country,
a lot of people sea kayak, simply because flat water and the North Sea
are
available. Getting to whitewater involves long drives (at 6+ US$ per
gallon) and with our 40% tax (BPM and BTW) on cars, driving is a lot
more expensive per driven mile than it is on the other side of the big
pond.

Then again, if you live in Colorado, sea kayaking might be the more
expensive hobby, purely based on the distance from the nearest
available salt water (Unless Salt Lake city counts... ;-))

Some of that also depends on how satisfied you'd be paddling waters that
fall short of mecca status. One certainly doesn't need salt water to enjoy
paddling a sea kayak. Although I live about 4 hours from salt water, in 15
minutes I can have my boat in the waters of a lake that is 40 miles long,
and if I had the time, through the use of the NY State Canal system could
reach the St. Lawrence River (where I'll be paddling in a week or so) which
empties into the Atlantic Ocean. It's about an hour and a half drive to the
Great Lakes where I could encounter conditions every bit as challenging as I
could find in salt water.

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a class
I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're willing to drive
to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're willing to settle for
and that is largely dependant upon ones experience.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a class
I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're willing to drive
to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're willing to settle for
and that is largely dependant upon ones experience.

If only we had class I-II in our backyard. The nearest class I/II, if it
has enough water, is at least 100 miles away... And although I'd prefer
class IV stuff, that's at least as far away from here, again, if there
is enough water. For most of the year, we simply have no whitewater of
any kind for a day trip. The sea surf or fla****er playboating is the
only alternative for us. :-(

I used to drive to the Czech Republic every 2nd weekend, that got me
decent whitewater for part of the year, but we're talking 600+ miles,
one way.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:

About 10 years
ago I bought a Valley Canoe Products Skerray (fiberglass) used for $1100.
At the time I think a new one sold for just over $2000. I could probably
*still* get around $1000 for it if I wanted to sell it. I've seen five year
old NDK Romany's advertised for $1900 and they'd sell at the price because
they're a desirable model.

I've noticed over the last decade that resale prices of sea kayaks have gone up
relative to the new price. Due to the popularity of the sport and the demand
for used kayaks, they no longer represent as big a bargain as they used to. I
bought my Solstice used for $1300 and sold it five years later (fixed up and
modified) for $1900.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Decent whitewater used to be a 2 hour drive for me too. However, since I've
moved I now have a class III / IV river just a short 25 minute drive away.
:-)

Courtney

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
John Fereira wrote:

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a
class
I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're willing to
drive
to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're willing to settle
for
and that is largely dependant upon ones experience.

If only we had class I-II in our backyard. The nearest class I/II, if it
has enough water, is at least 100 miles away... And although I'd prefer
class IV stuff, that's at least as far away from here, again, if there
is enough water. For most of the year, we simply have no whitewater of
any kind for a day trip. The sea surf or fla****er playboating is the
only alternative for us. :-(

I used to drive to the Czech Republic every 2nd weekend, that got me
decent whitewater for part of the year, but we're talking 600+ miles,
one way.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Wilko wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a
class I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're
willing to drive to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're
willing to settle for and that is largely dependant upon ones
experience.

If only we had class I-II in our backyard. The nearest class I/II, if
it has enough water, is at least 100 miles away... And although I'd
prefer class IV stuff, that's at least as far away from here, again, if
there is enough water. For most of the year, we simply have no
whitewater of any kind for a day trip. The sea surf or fla****er
playboating is the only alternative for us. :-(

We have somewhat similar conditions here. There are a few local streams
that offer class I-II conditions limited times in the year or (even class
III-IV during flood conditions). However, he Moose river is about 4 hours
away. It is also very seasonal in that for several months of the year much
of the water in the area is frozen. While I have paddling clothing for
immersion in cold water I don't often padding in the winter locally.
Instead, I don't take vacation time in the summer, but instead travel south
in the fall, winter, or early spring where I can paddle in warmer water.

I used to drive to the Czech Republic every 2nd weekend, that got me
decent whitewater for part of the year, but we're talking 600+ miles,
one way.

When I used to do a lot of downhill skiing I would drive from the San
Francisco bay area to Lake Tahoe every other weekend (about 250 miles one
way) and would even do occasional day trips midweek. Similarly, there were
no "class I-II" rivers locally but when I did travel to ski I could ski one
of the best mountains in the country (Squaw Valley).