I need a sea kayak paddle
 

I know this topic has been gone over and over and over again. Spent all
last night searching the archive for some answers. Still confused.

So far I have used a NRS PT paddle, Aqua-Bound paddle (I think Manta).
I'm looking to get either a aluminum shaft Aqua-bound Manta Ray, or a
Werner Skagit paddle. I liked the Mantra Ray. Never tried a Werner but
lots of people swear by them. I definitly want to get something with a
Asymmetrical blade. I'm 6-3 240 pounds.

Need a paddle I can do a self rescue with. Would I break a fiberglass
paddle?
What size paddle should I get? 230cm or a 240cm?
Should I get a narrower but longer blade? Or a wider but shorter blade?

I don't even really have a paddling style yet. Most of you guys are
going to say I'm just going to have to go try a bunch of paddles.
Most places let you try different boats (that is what I did) but I
don't think many let you try different paddles. My limit is 150 bucks.

Any advice would be greatly apreciated.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

jughead wrote:

Need a paddle I can do a self rescue with. Would I break a fiberglass
paddle?

You could break a steel paddle if you wanted to. If you break a paddle in a
self-rescue, that would mean that either you've done it wrong or the paddle was
previously damaged. It's also possible that you are doing the rescue in really
horrendous conditions. A solidly build paddle of any type - wood, fiberglass,
carbon fiber or aluminum - will stand up to normal rescue practice and use.

Make sure you know how to do these rescues. You do not put all your weight on
the paddle - only enough to keep you stable.

What size paddle should I get? 230cm or a 240cm?

You might even want 220 or shorter. You will have to try them and decide. The
length of the paddle will depend on the length of the blades. You should choose
the shaft length on the basis of your arm lengths, grip position, width of the
kayak and height above the water. Then you decide on the blade you want and
whatever the two blades plus shaft add up to is the length you want.

The blade should comfortably be set into the water to the root at the catch. A
shorter shaft can cause you to overpower the blade at the catch. A longer shaft
will just waste energy in turning the kayak unnecessarily.

Should I get a narrower but longer blade? Or a wider but shorter blade?

Your choice depending on how you paddle and what you like. There is no
definitive answer.

I don't even really have a paddling style yet. Most of you guys are
going to say I'm just going to have to go try a bunch of paddles.
Most places let you try different boats (that is what I did) but I
don't think many let you try different paddles.

The places I go will allow you to test paddles, but they have paddling out back.
You can arrange to rent paddles at some places. If you can find a paddle demo
day (it's late in the season for that), then you can try a bunch.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Hi Mike,

I used to be a rep for Werner so maybe my .02 cents will count worth .03
cents. One thing to look for is swing weight. You want a paddle that
doesn't have alot of weight out on the blades. The less weight the better.
Also the lighter the paddle overall the better. After paddling a long ways
you will no doubt begin to feel the weight of the paddle in your hands and
it's gets tiresome. An aluminum paddle will most likely be very heavy over
time. Fiberglass paddles will stand up to quite a bit of weight so I
wouldn't be concerned about breaking one easily. Any paddle can break if
enough force is put onto it. Just learn how to do a re-entry the correct
way and don't put all the weight on your paddle. I would also look at
getting the longer blades instead of the shorter one's if you are planning
on doing recreational paddling or a relaxed stroke (low angle). If you're
paddling with your arms down in front of your chest that would be a low
angle stroke. If you're paddling with them higher (as for fitness or
whitewater) then that would be a high angle stoke, thus the shorter blades.
Having blades with a dihedral helps alot as well. The dihedral will help
divert the water off the sides of the blade helping to prevent the paddle
from fluttering in the water. Depending on what kind of kayak you have will
have a good bit to do with the length of your paddle as well as the type of
paddling you're doing. From the one's you mentioned, Aquabound and Werner
would fit this the best. I would stay away from aluminum if you can. Can
you tell us what boat you have and what you want to do out on the water?

Courtney



"jughead" wrote in message
ups.com...
I know this topic has been gone over and over and over again. Spent all
last night searching the archive for some answers. Still confused.

So far I have used a NRS PT paddle, Aqua-Bound paddle (I think Manta).
I'm looking to get either a aluminum shaft Aqua-bound Manta Ray, or a
Werner Skagit paddle. I liked the Mantra Ray. Never tried a Werner but
lots of people swear by them. I definitly want to get something with a
Asymmetrical blade. I'm 6-3 240 pounds.

Need a paddle I can do a self rescue with. Would I break a fiberglass
paddle?
What size paddle should I get? 230cm or a 240cm?
Should I get a narrower but longer blade? Or a wider but shorter blade?

I don't even really have a paddling style yet. Most of you guys are
going to say I'm just going to have to go try a bunch of paddles.
Most places let you try different boats (that is what I did) but I
don't think many let you try different paddles. My limit is 150 bucks.

Any advice would be greatly apreciated.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

jughead wrote:

So far I have used a NRS PT paddle, Aqua-Bound paddle (I think Manta).
I'm looking to get either a aluminum shaft Aqua-bound Manta Ray, or a
Werner Skagit paddle. I liked the Mantra Ray. Never tried a Werner but
lots of people swear by them. I definitly want to get something with a
Asymmetrical blade. I'm 6-3 240 pounds.

Werner paddles are great! I own one and used to own several more
until friends lost them. Lightning paddles are also worth investigating:
http://paddles.com is their website. More color choices than Werner.

However I see that Cascade Outfitters 800-223-7238 is now selling
the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle, made in New Zealand, for under $70.
You can choose 220, 230, and 240 cm length. I have one of these
(I use it for whitewater kayaking) and it is a very good paddle,
even for a price higher than that. Fiberglass shaft, plastic blade.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Thanks for the tip on the Carlisle paddle.
Courtney I have a Wilderness Systems Tsunami 145 which is around 24.5
inches wide.
I use the kayak for exercise and planning on some ocean trips and
camping trips.
I think I am steering to a more low angle paddle.
I'm also looking at the Aqua-Bound EagleRay or StingRay which is a
narrower blade but longer.
The guy at REI said I should get a 240. The eagle and sting ray Aqua
Bound have long blades so maybe a 230? I could always return it if it
doesn't work out. That is what is good about REI. Makes sense to get a
paddle with pure fiber glass blades. I hear the Cameno is good but
pretty expensive.

If I get a paddle with a more low angle style (Longer but narrower
blade) will I still be able to get a good exceleration out of it to go
against currents and stuff?

Mike

Bill Tuthill wrote:
jughead wrote:

So far I have used a NRS PT paddle, Aqua-Bound paddle (I think Manta).
I'm looking to get either a aluminum shaft Aqua-bound Manta Ray, or a
Werner Skagit paddle. I liked the Mantra Ray. Never tried a Werner but
lots of people swear by them. I definitly want to get something with a
Asymmetrical blade. I'm 6-3 240 pounds.

Werner paddles are great! I own one and used to own several more
until friends lost them. Lightning paddles are also worth investigating:
http://paddles.com is their website. More color choices than Werner.

However I see that Cascade Outfitters 800-223-7238 is now selling
the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle, made in New Zealand, for under $70.
You can choose 220, 230, and 240 cm length. I have one of these
(I use it for whitewater kayaking) and it is a very good paddle,
even for a price higher than that. Fiberglass shaft, plastic blade.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

You use a 220 cm paddle for whitewater kayaking? Most people use much
shorter paddles, if I'm not mistaken. I have a 198 cm paddle for WW

Bill Tuthill wrote:
However I see that Cascade Outfitters 800-223-7238 is now selling
the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle, made in New Zealand, for under $70.
You can choose 220, 230, and 240 cm length. I have one of these
(I use it for whitewater kayaking) and it is a very good paddle,
even for a price higher than that. Fiberglass shaft, plastic blade.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

The guy at REI said I should get a 240.

I'm 6' tall, and I prefer a 220 cm paddle. Many people are trying
shorter paddles, so try some out before you buy them! I've heard that
some retailers have paddle demo days. We don't have many retailers
around here, so I don't know the in's and out's of it. However, you can
ask a friend if you mind trying their paddle for size.

The eagle and sting ray Aqua Bound have long blades so maybe a 230?

The blades are included in the measurement.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

I would probably check out the 230. If you weren't going to exercise and do
ocean trips I'd go with the 240 since the boat is some what wide and you are
6'3" but since you are going to do these things I wouldn't want extra length
to get in the way. When you go to buy, bring along a measuring tape and
measure the paddle from blade tip to blade tip. I know that Werner and some
others measure their lengths this way, however there are some other
companies that only include the shaft in their length but I'm not sure of
who they are. I still think that a low angle (long blades) paddle is the
way to go. You will definitely get enough power from these types of blades.

Courtney

"jughead" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the tip on the Carlisle paddle.
Courtney I have a Wilderness Systems Tsunami 145 which is around 24.5
inches wide.
I use the kayak for exercise and planning on some ocean trips and
camping trips.
I think I am steering to a more low angle paddle.
I'm also looking at the Aqua-Bound EagleRay or StingRay which is a
narrower blade but longer.
The guy at REI said I should get a 240. The eagle and sting ray Aqua
Bound have long blades so maybe a 230? I could always return it if it
doesn't work out. That is what is good about REI. Makes sense to get a
paddle with pure fiber glass blades. I hear the Cameno is good but
pretty expensive.

If I get a paddle with a more low angle style (Longer but narrower
blade) will I still be able to get a good exceleration out of it to go
against currents and stuff?

Mike

Bill Tuthill wrote:
jughead wrote:

So far I have used a NRS PT paddle, Aqua-Bound paddle (I think Manta).
I'm looking to get either a aluminum shaft Aqua-bound Manta Ray, or a
Werner Skagit paddle. I liked the Mantra Ray. Never tried a Werner but
lots of people swear by them. I definitly want to get something with a
Asymmetrical blade. I'm 6-3 240 pounds.

Werner paddles are great! I own one and used to own several more
until friends lost them. Lightning paddles are also worth
investigating:
http://paddles.com is their website. More color choices than Werner.

However I see that Cascade Outfitters 800-223-7238 is now selling
the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle, made in New Zealand, for under $70.
You can choose 220, 230, and 240 cm length. I have one of these
(I use it for whitewater kayaking) and it is a very good paddle,
even for a price higher than that. Fiberglass shaft, plastic blade.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Courtney wrote:
I know that Werner and some
others measure their lengths this way, however there are some other
companies that only include the shaft in their length but I'm not sure of
who they are.

The only thing I've seen advertised before is the length of the entire
paddle. However, I saw someone (maybe on here?) say that they had an
xxx 145. It would make sense that the shaft length is 145 cm.

I still think that a low angle (long blades) paddle is the
way to go. You will definitely get enough power from these types of blades.

I read recently that low angle/long blade paddles are designed for a
touring stroke, with a low upper-hand. I guided for a summer with a
long bladed paddle and I loved it! It seemed very efficient. Whitewater
blades are short and wide because we have more of a vertical stroke. I
would think that a racing blade would also have a shorter, wider blade
because a vertical stroke is more efficient -- less energy is wasted
turning the boat with each stroke.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Andrew wrote:
You use a 220 cm paddle for whitewater kayaking? Most people use much
shorter paddles, if I'm not mistaken. I have a 198 cm paddle for WW

Andrew, Bill paddles inflatables, which make a longer paddle not such a
bad idea. I'm too old-school and too tall (6'8"/201.5cm) to bother
trying out a shorter paddle. Right now I'm using a 206cm, and I can
cartwheel quite well with it without the length feeling like it gets in
my way.

Wilko


Bill Tuthill wrote:
However I see that Cascade Outfitters 800-223-7238 is now selling
the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle, made in New Zealand, for under $70.
You can choose 220, 230, and 240 cm length. I have one of these
(I use it for whitewater kayaking) and it is a very good paddle,
even for a price higher than that. Fiberglass shaft, plastic blade.




--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Andrew wrote:

You use a 220 cm paddle for whitewater kayaking? Most people use much
shorter paddles, if I'm not mistaken. I have a 198 cm paddle for WW.

Inflatable kayaking. Here I am at Carson Falls on the Kern. Unless
you've run this in your hardshell, please don't call my boat a ducky!

http://cacreeks.com/carsonFalls.jpg

That is the aforementioned Carlisle RS Magic 220cm, by the way.
I prefer the Werner Powerhouse and Lightning Freeride because they
(magically) don't drip down the shaft on my hands, but for rock-bashing
whitewater voyages, a $70 paddle is appealing.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

I remember when I started kayaking whitewater I paddled with a 206cm, 90
degree paddle and I'm 5'6". That was the norm then but that was also a long
time ago. When I got big into playboating my paddles got shorter and
shorter and my feather went down. I now paddle with a 191cm, 30 degree.
For me the shorter the better but I can understand others liking the longer
paddles too. It's funny though to see someone that's tall paddling with a
really short paddle. Usually their hands are right at the blade. I don't
see how they do it.

Courtney

Andrew, Bill paddles inflatables, which make a longer paddle not such a
bad idea. I'm too old-school and too tall (6'8"/201.5cm) to bother
trying out a shorter paddle. Right now I'm using a 206cm, and I can
cartwheel quite well with it without the length feeling like it gets in
my way.

Wilko

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Bill Tuthill wrote in :

jughead wrote:

So far I have used a NRS PT paddle, Aqua-Bound paddle (I think Manta).
I'm looking to get either a aluminum shaft Aqua-bound Manta Ray, or a
Werner Skagit paddle. I liked the Mantra Ray. Never tried a Werner but
lots of people swear by them. I definitly want to get something with a
Asymmetrical blade. I'm 6-3 240 pounds.

Werner paddles are great! I own one and used to own several more
until friends lost them. Lightning paddles are also worth investigating:
http://paddles.com is their website. More color choices than Werner.

I've had a Lightning Std. touring paddled for about 8 years and love it. I
bought used (along with a Werner Camano) for $200 and definately got my
money worth out it. I sold the Camano several years ago and since I just
sold my CLC Northbay I just ordered a Werner Cyprus.

However I see that Cascade Outfitters 800-223-7238 is now selling
the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle, made in New Zealand, for under $70.
You can choose 220, 230, and 240 cm length. I have one of these
(I use it for whitewater kayaking) and it is a very good paddle,
even for a price higher than that. Fiberglass shaft, plastic blade.

I've heard good things about the Carlisle Simply Magic paddle before and
that it's one of the best paddles out there for under $100. Some might
consider it the only paddle worth buying for under $100.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

"jughead" wrote in
oups.com:

Thanks for the tip on the Carlisle paddle.
Courtney I have a Wilderness Systems Tsunami 145 which is around 24.5
inches wide.
I use the kayak for exercise and planning on some ocean trips and
camping trips.
I think I am steering to a more low angle paddle.
I'm also looking at the Aqua-Bound EagleRay or StingRay which is a
narrower blade but longer.
The guy at REI said I should get a 240.
The eagle and sting ray Aqua
Bound have long blades so maybe a 230? I could always return it if it
doesn't work out. That is what is good about REI.

Did you get any indication regarding whether the guy at REI has actually
ever paddled a kayak? While outdoor retail chain stores might have good
return policies when buying paddling gear you're not necessarily going to be
talking to someone that has spent much time paddling, but more likely
someone that has gone through their corporate "how to sell paddling
equipment" training. At a dedicated paddling shop you'll more likely deal
with someone that is first, a paddler, and second and owner or employee at
the shop. You'll likely find the same return policies, be able to demo
different paddles *before* buying them (some may charge a rental fee that
will be deducted from the purchase price), and may even have *used* paddles
for sale.


Makes sense to get a
paddle with pure fiber glass blades. I hear the Cameno is good but
pretty expensive.

It's not really that expensive when compared to other paddles with
fiberglass shafts and blades. If you just look at the quality of
construction it should be fairly obvious why Werner is a popular choice.

If I get a paddle with a more low angle style (Longer but narrower
blade) will I still be able to get a good exceleration out of it to go
against currents and stuff?

Sure. You likely wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference. As you
gain more experience and a more efficient stroke the differences will become
moe apparent.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Andrew wrote:

The only thing I've seen advertised before is the length of the entire
paddle. However, I saw someone (maybe on here?) say that they had an
xxx 145. It would make sense that the shaft length is 145 cm.


Lendal is one of the few companies that emphasizes determining paddle size by
considering shaft size separately. They sell shafts by length and stiffness and
then add the blades. However, retailers usually take the Lendal paddles and add
a sticker stating overall length.

It really makes no sense to talk about overall length unless you are comparing
two paddles with the same blade length. If you compare a long-bladed paddle to
a short-bladed paddle, having the same overall length means you're comparing
apples and oranges.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Good point Mike. If he decided to get a low angle paddle then it'll likely
be on the longer side. If it's high angle then shorter would be better.

Courtney


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
Andrew wrote:

The only thing I've seen advertised before is the length of the entire
paddle. However, I saw someone (maybe on here?) say that they had an
xxx 145. It would make sense that the shaft length is 145 cm.


Lendal is one of the few companies that emphasizes determining paddle size
by
considering shaft size separately. They sell shafts by length and
stiffness and
then add the blades. However, retailers usually take the Lendal paddles
and add
a sticker stating overall length.

It really makes no sense to talk about overall length unless you are
comparing
two paddles with the same blade length. If you compare a long-bladed
paddle to
a short-bladed paddle, having the same overall length means you're
comparing
apples and oranges.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

One of my local shops rents out demo paddles so I tried a Werner Cameno
with the bent saft. 220cm. Nice paddle but on the short side for me.
Ended up getting a Aqua-bound Eagle Ray full carbon. Trying it out
today.


Courtney wrote:
Good point Mike. If he decided to get a low angle paddle then it'll likely
be on the longer side. If it's high angle then shorter would be better.

Courtney


"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
Andrew wrote:

The only thing I've seen advertised before is the length of the entire
paddle. However, I saw someone (maybe on here?) say that they had an
xxx 145. It would make sense that the shaft length is 145 cm.


Lendal is one of the few companies that emphasizes determining paddle size
by
considering shaft size separately. They sell shafts by length and
stiffness and
then add the blades. However, retailers usually take the Lendal paddles
and add
a sticker stating overall length.

It really makes no sense to talk about overall length unless you are
comparing
two paddles with the same blade length. If you compare a long-bladed
paddle to
a short-bladed paddle, having the same overall length means you're
comparing
apples and oranges.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

"jughead" wrote in
oups.com:

One of my local shops rents out demo paddles so I tried a Werner Cameno
with the bent saft. 220cm. Nice paddle but on the short side for me.
Ended up getting a Aqua-bound Eagle Ray full carbon. Trying it out
today.

That looks like a nice paddle. The blades looks very much like a Camano.
What did you think of the bent shaft. I just ordered a Werner Cyprus
(carbon fiber, foam core medium sized high angle blade) with a straight
shaft from our local shop (owned by a very good friend of mine). Ever since
Werner came out with their natural bent shaft a couple of years ago that's
about all he stocks in the carbon fiber paddles. I've paddled with most of
the different models with a bent shaft and just don't care for them much.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

I definitly liked the straight shaft alot better. I'm glad I got the
Aqua-bound Eagle Ray. Very light and I could still get very good power
out of it. Glad I didn't skimp on a cheap paddle.

Mike

John Fereira wrote:
"jughead" wrote in
oups.com:

One of my local shops rents out demo paddles so I tried a Werner Cameno
with the bent saft. 220cm. Nice paddle but on the short side for me.
Ended up getting a Aqua-bound Eagle Ray full carbon. Trying it out
today.

That looks like a nice paddle. The blades looks very much like a Camano.
What did you think of the bent shaft. I just ordered a Werner Cyprus
(carbon fiber, foam core medium sized high angle blade) with a straight
shaft from our local shop (owned by a very good friend of mine). Ever since
Werner came out with their natural bent shaft a couple of years ago that's
about all he stocks in the carbon fiber paddles. I've paddled with most of
the different models with a bent shaft and just don't care for them much.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

"jughead" wrote in
ups.com:

I definitly liked the straight shaft alot better. I'm glad I got the
Aqua-bound Eagle Ray. Very light and I could still get very good power
out of it. Glad I didn't skimp on a cheap paddle.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has been
"in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking for
reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to scrimp on
buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle is
for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would hardly blink
about spending that kind of money on equipment for their passion, that's a
significant commitment for someone just entering the sport and still not
sure how into the sport they're going to get.

My Werner Cyprus arrived yesterday and I can't wait to get out and try it.
I paddled for nearly 10 years with a fiberglass paddle and it has served me
very well. It was really about time I splurged on a top-of-the-line paddle.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has been
"in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking for
reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to scrimp on
buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle is
for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would hardly blink
about spending that kind of money on equipment for their passion, that's a
significant commitment for someone just entering the sport and still not
sure how into the sport they're going to get.

I've gone from the heavy Schlegel paddles to Spiderpaddles (prepreg
glass blades with a double thickness carbon/kevlar bent shaft) about six
years ago. Those paddles take several years of abuse (rock bashing on
low level streams) and gradually wear down the blades.

The one I have now (for the past two years) cost about 175 US$, the
previous one cost about 140 US$ at that time. Decent price for a good
paddle. I can't justify anything like 400 US$ on a paddle, no matter how
nice it is. Boats tend to outlast my paddles by a factor of at least
two, even though I haven't broken a paddle in maybe six or seven years,
that's just too much money for my taste.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Wilko wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has
been "in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking
for reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to
scrimp on buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle
is for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would
hardly blink about spending that kind of money on equipment for their
passion, that's a significant commitment for someone just entering the
sport and still not sure how into the sport they're going to get.

I've gone from the heavy Schlegel paddles to Spiderpaddles (prepreg
glass blades with a double thickness carbon/kevlar bent shaft) about
six years ago. Those paddles take several years of abuse (rock bashing
on low level streams) and gradually wear down the blades.

The one I have now (for the past two years) cost about 175 US$, the
previous one cost about 140 US$ at that time. Decent price for a good
paddle. I can't justify anything like 400 US$ on a paddle, no matter
how nice it is. Boats tend to outlast my paddles by a factor of at
least two, even though I haven't broken a paddle in maybe six or seven
years, that's just too much money for my taste.

Of course you're a whitewater paddler and the paddle I bought is a touring
paddle. I would imagine that sea kayak paddles tend to last a *lot* longer
than a WW paddle. Many sea kayakers will spend $2000-$3000 (or more) for a
touring boat. I know that prices on WW boats have gone up quite a bit over
the past few years but even $1500 would be at the top end. My guess would
be that equipment costs for sea kayaking (I'm not talking about recreational
class boats that sometimes sold as sea kayaks for beginners) are
significantly higher than for ww paddling.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:
Wilko wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain choosing a better, more
expensive paddle than a cheap one. Over the years that this group has
been "in business" there have been lots of people coming here asking
for reccommendations on a paddle and the advice has always been not to
scrimp on buying a paddle and there is a good reason for that.

That said, I don't believe that a $400 super light carbon fiber paddle
is for everyone. While many of the experience paddlers here would
hardly blink about spending that kind of money on equipment for their
passion, that's a significant commitment for someone just entering the
sport and still not sure how into the sport they're going to get.
I've gone from the heavy Schlegel paddles to Spiderpaddles (prepreg
glass blades with a double thickness carbon/kevlar bent shaft) about
six years ago. Those paddles take several years of abuse (rock bashing
on low level streams) and gradually wear down the blades.

The one I have now (for the past two years) cost about 175 US$, the
previous one cost about 140 US$ at that time. Decent price for a good
paddle. I can't justify anything like 400 US$ on a paddle, no matter
how nice it is. Boats tend to outlast my paddles by a factor of at
least two, even though I haven't broken a paddle in maybe six or seven
years, that's just too much money for my taste.

Of course you're a whitewater paddler and the paddle I bought is a touring
paddle. I would imagine that sea kayak paddles tend to last a *lot* longer
than a WW paddle. Many sea kayakers will spend $2000-$3000 (or more) for a
touring boat. I know that prices on WW boats have gone up quite a bit over
the past few years but even $1500 would be at the top end. My guess would
be that equipment costs for sea kayaking (I'm not talking about recreational
class boats that sometimes sold as sea kayaks for beginners) are
significantly higher than for ww paddling.

You have a point there, John. For a starting paddler, it's probably
quite a bit more expensive if you buy everything new (I'm not familiar
with 2nd hand sea kayak prices). I'm not so sure that the hobby as a
whole costs more though, especially since boats and paddles do wear out
on whitewater, especially when (ab-)used by beginners, and the 2nd hand
prices of used boats remind me of those of used cars... The moment you
walk out of the shop, devaluation of the boat has already started.

I guess that when we're talking about the cost of the two branches of
kayaking as a whole, a lot depends upon where you live. In my country, a
lot of people sea kayak, simply because flat water and the North Sea are
available. Getting to whitewater involves long drives (at 6+ US$ per
gallon) and with our 40% tax (BPM and BTW) on cars, driving is a lot
more expensive per driven mile than it is on the other side of the big pond.

Then again, if you live in Colorado, sea kayaking might be the more
expensive hobby, purely based on the distance from the nearest available
salt water (Unless Salt Lake city counts... ;-))


--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Wilko wrote in
:

John Fereira wrote:
Wilko wrote in :

My guess would be that equipment costs for
sea kayaking (I'm not talking about recreational class boats that
sometimes sold as sea kayaks for beginners) are significantly higher
than for ww paddling.

You have a point there, John. For a starting paddler, it's probably
quite a bit more expensive if you buy everything new (I'm not familiar
with 2nd hand sea kayak prices).

And that's a good point as well. The used market, at least for a boat and
paddle, is a good way to get started.

Like a used car, the price you can expect to pay relative to what you'd pay
for the same model for a new boat can vary significantly depending on the
model, and then of course the condition the used boat is in. About 10 years
ago I bought a Valley Canoe Products Skerray (fiberglass) used for $1100.
At the time I think a new one sold for just over $2000. I could probably
*still* get around $1000 for it if I wanted to sell it. I've seen five year
old NDK Romany's advertised for $1900 and they'd sell at the price because
they're a desirable model.

I'm not so sure that the hobby as a
whole costs more though, especially since boats and paddles do wear out
on whitewater, especially when (ab-)used by beginners, and the 2nd hand
prices of used boats remind me of those of used cars... The moment you
walk out of the shop, devaluation of the boat has already started.

That's true, but except for some sea kayaks used in rental fleets, rarely do
you find boat that have deteriorated in terms of performance significantly.
I doubt that most would find that my 17 year old Skerray paddles measurably
different than a brand new Skerray (if one could find a 1989 model still in
shrink wrap).

I guess that when we're talking about the cost of the two branches of
kayaking as a whole, a lot depends upon where you live. In my country,
a lot of people sea kayak, simply because flat water and the North Sea
are
available. Getting to whitewater involves long drives (at 6+ US$ per
gallon) and with our 40% tax (BPM and BTW) on cars, driving is a lot
more expensive per driven mile than it is on the other side of the big
pond.

Then again, if you live in Colorado, sea kayaking might be the more
expensive hobby, purely based on the distance from the nearest
available salt water (Unless Salt Lake city counts... ;-))

Some of that also depends on how satisfied you'd be paddling waters that
fall short of mecca status. One certainly doesn't need salt water to enjoy
paddling a sea kayak. Although I live about 4 hours from salt water, in 15
minutes I can have my boat in the waters of a lake that is 40 miles long,
and if I had the time, through the use of the NY State Canal system could
reach the St. Lawrence River (where I'll be paddling in a week or so) which
empties into the Atlantic Ocean. It's about an hour and a half drive to the
Great Lakes where I could encounter conditions every bit as challenging as I
could find in salt water.

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a class
I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're willing to drive
to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're willing to settle for
and that is largely dependant upon ones experience.

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a class
I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're willing to drive
to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're willing to settle for
and that is largely dependant upon ones experience.

If only we had class I-II in our backyard. The nearest class I/II, if it
has enough water, is at least 100 miles away... And although I'd prefer
class IV stuff, that's at least as far away from here, again, if there
is enough water. For most of the year, we simply have no whitewater of
any kind for a day trip. The sea surf or fla****er playboating is the
only alternative for us. :-(

I used to drive to the Czech Republic every 2nd weekend, that got me
decent whitewater for part of the year, but we're talking 600+ miles,
one way.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

John Fereira wrote:

About 10 years
ago I bought a Valley Canoe Products Skerray (fiberglass) used for $1100.
At the time I think a new one sold for just over $2000. I could probably
*still* get around $1000 for it if I wanted to sell it. I've seen five year
old NDK Romany's advertised for $1900 and they'd sell at the price because
they're a desirable model.

I've noticed over the last decade that resale prices of sea kayaks have gone up
relative to the new price. Due to the popularity of the sport and the demand
for used kayaks, they no longer represent as big a bargain as they used to. I
bought my Solstice used for $1300 and sold it five years later (fixed up and
modified) for $1900.

Mike

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Decent whitewater used to be a 2 hour drive for me too. However, since I've
moved I now have a class III / IV river just a short 25 minute drive away.
:-)

Courtney

"Wilko" wrote in message
...
John Fereira wrote:

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a
class
I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're willing to
drive
to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're willing to settle
for
and that is largely dependant upon ones experience.

If only we had class I-II in our backyard. The nearest class I/II, if it
has enough water, is at least 100 miles away... And although I'd prefer
class IV stuff, that's at least as far away from here, again, if there
is enough water. For most of the year, we simply have no whitewater of
any kind for a day trip. The sea surf or fla****er playboating is the
only alternative for us. :-(

I used to drive to the Czech Republic every 2nd weekend, that got me
decent whitewater for part of the year, but we're talking 600+ miles,
one way.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d o tnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

I need a sea kayak paddle
 

Wilko wrote in :

John Fereira wrote:

For those with class IV skills, how many would be satisfied paddling a
class I-II river if it was in their own backyard? How far you're
willing to drive to paddle also depends on what kinds of waters you're
willing to settle for and that is largely dependant upon ones
experience.

If only we had class I-II in our backyard. The nearest class I/II, if
it has enough water, is at least 100 miles away... And although I'd
prefer class IV stuff, that's at least as far away from here, again, if
there is enough water. For most of the year, we simply have no
whitewater of any kind for a day trip. The sea surf or fla****er
playboating is the only alternative for us. :-(

We have somewhat similar conditions here. There are a few local streams
that offer class I-II conditions limited times in the year or (even class
III-IV during flood conditions). However, he Moose river is about 4 hours
away. It is also very seasonal in that for several months of the year much
of the water in the area is frozen. While I have paddling clothing for
immersion in cold water I don't often padding in the winter locally.
Instead, I don't take vacation time in the summer, but instead travel south
in the fall, winter, or early spring where I can paddle in warmer water.

I used to drive to the Czech Republic every 2nd weekend, that got me
decent whitewater for part of the year, but we're talking 600+ miles,
one way.

When I used to do a lot of downhill skiing I would drive from the San
Francisco bay area to Lake Tahoe every other weekend (about 250 miles one
way) and would even do occasional day trips midweek. Similarly, there were
no "class I-II" rivers locally but when I did travel to ski I could ski one
of the best mountains in the country (Squaw Valley).