Harry Krause wrote:


Passagemaker presents a lot of information on the boats they trial, and
the articles include many areas on boats that need improvement. I'm not
claiming the magazine is immune to the pressures of advertising, but I
don't get the feeling most of the articles they publish are advertorials.

Harry,
Obviously they are doing a good job, because while the articles are
advertorials, you are not supposed to think they are. I always liked
where they would highlight a weakness and then say "after discussing
this problem with "X" he agreed and said the test boat was a prototype
and the problem would be corrected in production boats" or some similar
comment to make it seems like they were unbiased.

I enjoyed the non product review articles in Cruising World and
Passagemaker, but found their Fluff Pieces to be as obvious as in any of
the boating mags. They would be very pleased to know you thought they
were presenting the good, the ugly and the bad in their product reviews.
Their objective really is to make you think they are presenting the
good , the ugly and the bad, but in reality they really are advertorials.
--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Chuck Gould wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:

JohnH,

There is one, It is called called Powerboat Reports. It does a decent
job of not only reviewing the product but doing follow up with boat
owners.

http://www.powerboat-reports.com/

The biggest problem I have seen is a limited number of reviews for each
product category.


I haven't paid much attention to Powerboat Reports in the last few
years. Is it still about an 8-16 page newsletter? When I last read it,
it seemed to be very New England oriented. Anything built in New
England was pretty good and got reviewed. Stuff from elsewhere was
generally ignored.

Powerboat Reports accepts no advertising (unless that has recently
changed). Any magazine relying strictly on subscription income is going
to have very limited staff and resources to work with. They probably
don't have the capacity to print a greater number of reviews.

It would be hard to develop a meaningful number of follow ups with
actual owners for a lot of boats. As you know, with some of the larger
boats a sales volume of a few dozen a year isn't too bad. Subtract the
90% sold to people who don't subscribe to a particular magazine, and
now you're down to 5 or 6 boats. Take out another 50% who won't bother
to return the survey, and you're reading a whole lot into 3, 4, or 5
responses about a boat.

The Consumer Reports model is different than anything a boating
magazine could even begin to attempt to do. When they review a car, for
instance, they go out and buy one (anonymously) off a retail dealer's
lot. They give it to a staffer to drive back and forth to work for
several months, etc etc etc etc. When they look for comments from the
public, they're trying to collect comments from a universe of perhaps
100,000 units sold. Big difference. You wouldn't see any articles about
boats if boating magazines were expected to write a check for $750,000
to buy a new 42-foot WhatKnot just to do a boat review..........

And that's one of the reasons you will see a limited number of reviews
in a publication like Powerboat Reports; There is no "relationship"
with an advertiser, and a lot of manufacturers simply don't make their
boats available for testing by anybody who just happens along to ask.


Chuck,
I have to agree with your assessment of Powerboat Reports, due to it's
limited market size for subscriptions, it is limited as to how many
products and how detailed their reviews can be. but they still do a
decent job of the products they do review.

I actually found their reviews to be more valid than Consumer Reports,
because they are boaters reviewing boating products. Consumer Reports
often totally miss the mark with their "Best Buy" category, often
endorsing a product that really should be at the bottom of the list for
a number of reasons. If a mfg'er has a QC problem, and CR samples a
well built product, it can get a very high rating, even though it is not
representative of the average product . Other times, they identify
product features that are not really important to the average user,
skewing the results of their test. I think both mags do a decent job,
but I have never had the confidence in CR results to pay for their
magazine or purchase a report online.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...


Consumer Reports often totally miss the mark with their "Best Buy"
category, often endorsing a product that really should be at the bottom of
the list for a number of reasons. If a mfg'er has a QC problem, and CR
samples a well built product, it can get a very high rating, even though
it is not representative of the average product . Other times, they
identify product features that are not really important to the average
user, skewing the results of their test. I think both mags do a decent
job, but I have never had the confidence in CR results to pay for their
magazine or purchase a report online.


I don't read Consumer Reports either, but I am curious as to why you have no
confidence if you don't buy it or purchase reports online. How else do you
read it to form your opinion?

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...


Consumer Reports often totally miss the mark with their "Best Buy"
category, often endorsing a product that really should be at the bottom of
the list for a number of reasons. If a mfg'er has a QC problem, and CR
samples a well built product, it can get a very high rating, even though
it is not representative of the average product . Other times, they
identify product features that are not really important to the average
user, skewing the results of their test. I think both mags do a decent
job, but I have never had the confidence in CR results to pay for their
magazine or purchase a report online.


I don't read Consumer Reports either, but I am curious as to why you have no
confidence if you don't buy it or purchase reports online. How else do you
read it to form your opinion?

Eisboch


Richard (or is it Dick),

There are many "Best Buy" winners in categories that I am very familiar
with, that I, and anyone in the business would consider the bottom of
the barrel. I have asked other "experts" or those familiar with other
product categories if they have seen similar results, and 100% of those
I have "surveyed" have agreed they have seen similar problems with their
reviews. It doesn't mean all of their evaluations are off, it just
means they are off enough, that you really can not have a confidence
level in their ratings.

I would be interested if others in rec.boats have seen similar problems
with their ratings. I am not talking about reading a review, buying the
product based upon the review, and being completely happy with the
product you purchased. I am talking about a product category in which
you have detailed experience in either sales, marketing, manufacturing
and/or service. Do you find their ratings to accurately reflect the
real world? Have you found any of their "Best Buy" to actually be the
"Dog" of the category?

I don't believe they have sold their soul for a Best Buy rating, I just
think for many reasons, they often totally miss the mark.
--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Speaking of advertising...Does anyone know which magazines have the best
circulation? Either for power or sail?

The reason I ask is I have been considering advertising my product in
Lats&Atts and I am trying to assess the benefit versus cost and if this is
one of the better (sailing) magazines. The magazine recently printed an
article (in the June issue) about my product after meeting with them at the
Toronto Boat Show this past January. Sales have increased as a result, but
the cost to actually advertise is expensive.
The magazine (Lats&Atts) appears to be a good one to advertise my lifeline
hooks in, but I am wondering if I should consider another magazine to
advertise my hooks for rails (more for powerboats). So hence my question
as to what magazines have the higher circulations.

Mark (the Rail, Canopy, & LifeLine Hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...
There's been too much discussion of trolling and net nannying lately.
Here's an opportunity go get back on topic and discuss boating. Here's a
few questions to get the ball rolling.

Boating magazines:
Why do we buy them?
Do we rely on them to make buying decisions?
Do we expect honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?
Do we get honest reviews of boats and gear on their pages?
Do advertisers influence magazine content (other than their ads)?
Do some manufacturers bribe publication personnel to get favorable press?
Jim

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...



Consumer Reports often totally miss the mark with their "Best Buy"
category, often endorsing a product that really should be at the bottom of
the list for a number of reasons. If a mfg'er has a QC problem, and CR
samples a well built product, it can get a very high rating, even though
it is not representative of the average product . Other times, they
identify product features that are not really important to the average
user, skewing the results of their test. I think both mags do a decent
job, but I have never had the confidence in CR results to pay for their
magazine or purchase a report online.



I don't read Consumer Reports either, but I am curious as to why you have no
confidence if you don't buy it or purchase reports online. How else do you
read it to form your opinion?

Eisboch


Hee hee! Good point.
Whenever I set out to buy a new auto/tool/appliance/electronic item I
travel with my 'bible' in my hand. I suscribe to the magazine and took
advantage of a cut rate promotional rate on the online service.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 07:20:19 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I have never had the confidence in CR results to pay for their
magazine or purchase a report online.

They are not perfect and sometimes miss the mark, but on balance they
are the best consumer testing and reporting organization that I'm
aware of. I wouldn't dream of buying a big ticket item without
checking to see what they had to say about either that specific model,
or the manufacturer in general.

Their automotive reporting has always been spot on im my experience,
especially the reliability evaluations.

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:03:34 -0400, "Mark"
wrote:

So hence my question
as to what magazines have the higher circulations.

I'm not sure that's the most important factor. What you really want
is the magazine that deliver the highest number of actual boat owners
who use them in a manner consistent with needing your product.

I'd guess that Latts & Atts rates fairly well on that score.

Harry Krause wrote:
..


As I have told you before, "Reggie," since you have no obvious
expertise, no stated profession, no boat that anyone has seen, and no
real name, I consider your opinions worthless.

Well if you are going to turn every discussion into personal insults it
really does limit your ability to have a discussion when you have a
difference of opinion.

Since I have no expertise in any subject, you really should be able to
do a good job debating, but you gave up as soon as someone disagreed
with you. All in all, your disagreement did stir up some boating and
boating mag. discussion.
--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

Don White wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
...



Consumer Reports often totally miss the mark with their "Best Buy"
category, often endorsing a product that really should be at the
bottom of the list for a number of reasons. If a mfg'er has a QC
problem, and CR samples a well built product, it can get a very high
rating, even though it is not representative of the average product
. Other times, they identify product features that are not really
important to the average user, skewing the results of their test. I
think both mags do a decent job, but I have never had the confidence
in CR results to pay for their magazine or purchase a report online.



I don't read Consumer Reports either, but I am curious as to why you
have no confidence if you don't buy it or purchase reports online.
How else do you read it to form your opinion?

Eisboch

Hee hee! Good point.
Whenever I set out to buy a new auto/tool/appliance/electronic item I
travel with my 'bible' in my hand. I suscribe to the magazine and took
advantage of a cut rate promotional rate on the online service.
Don,
As I said, I am very familiar with some of their reviews, and have
discussed this with others. I am glad you have had excellent results
using your bible. It really does make it easier.

I tend to use online reviews (such as Cnet) where you have an editor's
opinion and numerous user's opinions.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!