On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:42:36 GMT, Don White wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote:

Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to the
elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows
and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering
the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car
till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.

My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows
and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same.

Wow, I didn't know it was possible to get a new vehicle without the 'power'
options. I see the power stuff is a $405 option for your truck, but for
many trucks and cars the power windows, etc., are standard equipment. The
F150 doesn't show power windows as an option so I assume they're standard
equipment, as is their locking system.

--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Don White wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:

Don White wrote:

seeray28(steve) wrote:

Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we
looked at
the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range.
All the
boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and
trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually
a good
thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we
did get
a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine
cover
with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover
lifts out
and you put it to the side.
What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd
guidelines
that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's.
It has
the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just
about
all the other boats have.
We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph,
doesnt
burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat.
If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the
Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS
in it.
You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k
other brand.
Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta
or Merc.
Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot
get a
radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY
got to get
one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas
operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered
floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch ,
carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice
but you
have to pay for them.


Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc.
As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical
systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace.


Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to
the elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power
windows and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was
considering the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping
the boat/car till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.

My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows
and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same.


I have four F150's - all with manual windows and locks. They all have
the "work truck" package. No carpet, vinyl seats, etc. Can't beat them
for $15K.

Dan

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote:
seeray28(steve) wrote:
Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we
looked at
the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range.
All the
boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and
trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a
good
thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we
did get
a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine
cover
with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover
lifts out
and you put it to the side.
What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd
guidelines
that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's.
It has
the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just
about
all the other boats have.
We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph,
doesnt
burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat.
If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the
Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS
in it.
You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other
brand.
Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta
or Merc.
Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot
get a
radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got
to get
one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas
operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered
floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch ,
carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice
but you
have to pay for them.


Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc.
As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical
systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace.
Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat

Don, I meant to say: This is especially important with a boat, since
the helm is normally exposed to the elements, more so than the inside of
a car.

exposed to the
elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows
and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering
the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car
till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.



--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Don White wrote:

seeray28(steve) wrote:

Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we
looked at
the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range. All
the
boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and
trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a
good
thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we
did get
a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine
cover
with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover
lifts out
and you put it to the side.
What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd
guidelines
that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's. It
has
the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just about
all the other boats have.
We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph,
doesnt
burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat.
If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the
Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS
in it.
You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other
brand.
Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta or
Merc.
Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot
get a
radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got
to get
one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas
operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered
floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch ,
carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice
but you
have to pay for them.


Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc.
As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical
systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace.

Try keyless entry and auto up/down windows and you will never go back.
I'm hooked on the rain sensing wipers these days.

Dan

I would definitely check out the Crownline.


Okay, back to reality.

If I have aroud $20k to spend on a nice circa 18-20' runabout, what
really are the best quality choices?

What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner
and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt?

Thanks for your thoughts!


D

ega wrote:
: I would definitely check out the Crownline.

Agreed.

Also: http://www.bluewater-boats.com/boats.html

I'm also from the Burgh' send me an e-mail.


wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm the type of guy who's better at researching a product than I am at
actually making a decision. I was last here years ago, laughing at the
various debates between Harry and Skipper, since I pretty much believe
in the David Pascoe dogma that a high quality boat is the only kind of
boat you should buy.

But then, like many, I ran into reality. First I thought I'd get a
used boat cheap. But I quickly discovered that the under $5k used boat
market was pretty much a swamp of derelicts uncared for by their
owners, especially here in Pittsburgh, PA, which is not what I would
call a world centre for boating.

If you go up a bit further in price, you find the Ski Nautique brand.
I love the design and construction quality, but they are so specialized
towards skiing that they wouldn't make much of a comfortable, family
oriented runabout I could use to blast around on the river, take
pictures and have guests without the lamentable inhospitality of the
true fishing boat. I asked the Wakeboard crowd about this, and they
suggested Cobalt.

So I visited http://www.cobaltboats.com/ and wow, what a cool company.
But alas, if you go to their cheapest boat, the 200, you get prices
like these:

http://www.cobaltboats.com/model_lin...uipment200.php

So I wound up checking out a new boat dealer that sold Bayliner. I was
prepared to hate Bayliner. I am even on record somewhere deep in
USENET history as agreeing with Harry that Bayliner is not the world's
greatest boat. But at the same time, I am on the river, not an ocean.
On the other hand, I plan to migrate down to Florida at some point and
then maybe I will be on an ocean. So I'd like to have a boat that
could go on the ocean that wouldn't empty my wallet every month.

So I checked out Bayliner's entry level boat and it certainly looked
far better than the old models. The saleslady, a really cool person,
said they were, in fact, better than the old models. It's a pity she
used the argument "They're the most popular boat on the planet! If
they weren't good, people wouldn't buy them?" Try to talk that way to
an Apple computer user who KNOWS everyone buys Windows, and you're not
getting very far :-).

But still, I want to be fair. And lo and behold, even here, I see even
ol' Harry softening his opinion on them. Oh, he growls about the cleat
size, but he seems to have lost a lot of his vim and vigour on the
subject.

I kept on looking, though. There's something notably unappealing about
Bayliner. They don't talk much about quality. The rival dealer sold
Larson, "Better-built boats". So I went to this site:

http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...h.pl?type=list

and I'll be darned if half the reviews of Larson were unfavorable and
most of the reviews about Bayliner were raves! Reviews like this are
bound to put you off on a boat:

http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=326
http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=282

Well, in the end, I did find the perfect runabout. A little big and a
bit greedy on fuel, and I'm not sure if you can even buy diesel on the
Monongahela River, which might make refueling a bit interesting. But
still, who could resist this one?

http://powerandmotoryacht.com/boatte...02hinckleyT29/
for great pictures, see
http://www.boats.com/sites/hinckley/...hinckley&pic=0

Well, the perfect boat if I had $335,000-odd to spend on a runabout.
And it's sold already! I do admire the Hinckley service organization,
though. Looks like they sell you the boat, if anything goes wrong,
they fix it, they do the annual varnishing and polishing so your boat
will never look old, and then if you get tired of it and want a bigger
boat, they are there to sell it for you. The next owner will get a
service history down to individidual light bulb replacements (stuff
like Replace PAR 16 12v light bulb .... $28.95). I may not be able to
afford that sort of thing, but I admire it enormously.

Okay, back to reality.

If I have aroud $20k to spend on a nice circa 18-20' runabout, what
really are the best quality choices?

What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner
and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt?

Thanks for your thoughts!


D

I too am from Pittsburgh (Moon Township, out by the airport). I bought
a 1995 Sea Pro Citation 19' Cuddy last year out of Cleveland. It is
more than enough for the rivers, but I don't ever intend to go ocean.
It has a 4 banger with an Alpha 1 outdrive, which is powerful enough
for me but a 6 cyclinder wouldn't hurt at all. It is somewhat basic,
but very clean and well maintained. I bought it with trailer for
$4,200. Used it all last summer and a few times this year. All I have
put into it is oil, plugs, self-winterizing, a new stereo and some
brake work on the trailer. Last summer I did a two day trip down the
Ohio with 4 people with no problem (do a google search and see my
story about waking up in the middle of the night while moored close to
shore with a barge cruising past about 6 feet away - about sh*t
myself). I guess that the point is that reasonable quality can be had
for a reasonable budget if you take some time and effort in the
search. Personally, If I had it to do over I would look for about an
18' open bow runabout instead of the Cuddy cabin. I thought that the
cabin would be good for my young grandsons, but I think they would
enjoy the open bow more and it would be easier to launch and
re-trailer. An open bow runabout would clearly be too light for ocean
usage though in my opinion.

Dave Hall


On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:55:29 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote:

I'm also from the Burgh' send me an e-mail.


wrote in message
roups.com...
I'm the type of guy who's better at researching a product than I am at
actually making a decision. I was last here years ago, laughing at the
various debates between Harry and Skipper, since I pretty much believe
in the David Pascoe dogma that a high quality boat is the only kind of
boat you should buy.

But then, like many, I ran into reality. First I thought I'd get a
used boat cheap. But I quickly discovered that the under $5k used boat
market was pretty much a swamp of derelicts uncared for by their
owners, especially here in Pittsburgh, PA, which is not what I would
call a world centre for boating.

If you go up a bit further in price, you find the Ski Nautique brand.
I love the design and construction quality, but they are so specialized
towards skiing that they wouldn't make much of a comfortable, family
oriented runabout I could use to blast around on the river, take
pictures and have guests without the lamentable inhospitality of the
true fishing boat. I asked the Wakeboard crowd about this, and they
suggested Cobalt.

So I visited http://www.cobaltboats.com/ and wow, what a cool company.
But alas, if you go to their cheapest boat, the 200, you get prices
like these:

http://www.cobaltboats.com/model_lin...uipment200.php

So I wound up checking out a new boat dealer that sold Bayliner. I was
prepared to hate Bayliner. I am even on record somewhere deep in
USENET history as agreeing with Harry that Bayliner is not the world's
greatest boat. But at the same time, I am on the river, not an ocean.
On the other hand, I plan to migrate down to Florida at some point and
then maybe I will be on an ocean. So I'd like to have a boat that
could go on the ocean that wouldn't empty my wallet every month.

So I checked out Bayliner's entry level boat and it certainly looked
far better than the old models. The saleslady, a really cool person,
said they were, in fact, better than the old models. It's a pity she
used the argument "They're the most popular boat on the planet! If
they weren't good, people wouldn't buy them?" Try to talk that way to
an Apple computer user who KNOWS everyone buys Windows, and you're not
getting very far :-).

But still, I want to be fair. And lo and behold, even here, I see even
ol' Harry softening his opinion on them. Oh, he growls about the cleat
size, but he seems to have lost a lot of his vim and vigour on the
subject.

I kept on looking, though. There's something notably unappealing about
Bayliner. They don't talk much about quality. The rival dealer sold
Larson, "Better-built boats". So I went to this site:

http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...h.pl?type=list

and I'll be darned if half the reviews of Larson were unfavorable and
most of the reviews about Bayliner were raves! Reviews like this are
bound to put you off on a boat:

http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=326
http://www.everythingboats.com/ryob/...ew&boat_id=282

Well, in the end, I did find the perfect runabout. A little big and a
bit greedy on fuel, and I'm not sure if you can even buy diesel on the
Monongahela River, which might make refueling a bit interesting. But
still, who could resist this one?

http://powerandmotoryacht.com/boatte...02hinckleyT29/
for great pictures, see
http://www.boats.com/sites/hinckley/...hinckley&pic=0

Well, the perfect boat if I had $335,000-odd to spend on a runabout.
And it's sold already! I do admire the Hinckley service organization,
though. Looks like they sell you the boat, if anything goes wrong,
they fix it, they do the annual varnishing and polishing so your boat
will never look old, and then if you get tired of it and want a bigger
boat, they are there to sell it for you. The next owner will get a
service history down to individidual light bulb replacements (stuff
like Replace PAR 16 12v light bulb .... $28.95). I may not be able to
afford that sort of thing, but I admire it enormously.

Okay, back to reality.

If I have aroud $20k to spend on a nice circa 18-20' runabout, what
really are the best quality choices?

What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner
and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt?

Thanks for your thoughts!


D