Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote:
seeray28(steve) wrote:
Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we
looked at
the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range.
All the
boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and
trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually a
good
thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we
did get
a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine
cover
with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover
lifts out
and you put it to the side.
What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd
guidelines
that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's.
It has
the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just
about
all the other boats have.
We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph,
doesnt
burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat.
If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the
Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS
in it.
You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k other
brand.
Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta
or Merc.
Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot
get a
radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY got
to get
one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas
operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered
floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch ,
carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice
but you
have to pay for them.


Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc.
As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical
systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace.
Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat

Don, I meant to say: This is especially important with a boat, since
the helm is normally exposed to the elements, more so than the inside of
a car.

exposed to the
elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows
and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering
the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car
till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.



--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Don White wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote:

seeray28(steve) wrote:

Last year my admiral and I were in the market for a new boat, we
looked at
the Glastron,Seeray, Tahoe, and Bayliner. all in the 10-18k range.
All the
boats were approx 18ft. We chose the Bayliner 175. $11,500 for boat and
trailer. It is a VERY basic boat, but for what we do thats actually
a good
thing. Did we get the fancy interior of the other boats? No, but we
did get
a very user friendly interior. Did we get the fancy clamshell engine
cover
with the gas operated lift? Nope on that as well, the engine cover
lifts out
and you put it to the side.
What we did get was a very basic boat that meets all coast gaurd
guidelines
that sees all the same scenery that the more expensive boats see's.
It has
the Merc 3.0 and alpha drive, the same engine/drive combo that just
about
all the other boats have.
We are very happy with this boat, Starts right up, goes about 45mph,
doesnt
burn much gas, handles well and rides good for a 17.5 boat.
If your looking to spend money on a new boat, you really cant beat the
Bayliner line. What they do is design a boat that has all the BASICS
in it.
You ask what the difference is between a 20k bayliner and a 45k
other brand.
Well its not the engines/outdrives., Nowadays its either Volvopenta
or Merc.
Its the extras that the other brands put into thier boats. We didnot
get a
radio in our boat, nor a depth finder, nor a bimini top (I REALLY
got to get
one this year). It didnt come with the laminate wood dashboard, the gas
operated lift mechanicals for the engine hatch, the fiberglass covered
floor. But it did come with a gelcoated dash, removable engine hatch ,
carpeted floor. As stated its a basic boat. The extras are very nice
but you
have to pay for them.


Keep it simple! I've never owned a car with power windows/locks etc.
As long as your arms work...why pay extra for mechanical/electrical
systems that can fail & might be expensive to replace.

Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to
the elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power
windows and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was
considering the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping
the boat/car till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.

My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows
and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same.

I was just teasing you, I know they still offer the non power windows
and door locks, I just can't remember the last time I saw a car without
the power option.

Since they offer the power options as a "Package", I think most people
just order it automatically. I try to keep my cars for 10 yrs if they
will hold up mechanically, and I have never had a problem with the power
windows or door locks on any car. The reason I have always sold my cars
is because of a transmission problem that I could not justify the cost
of repair vs. the value of the car.

--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

Harry Krause wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner
and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt?

$25,000 odd dollars.

Now that the smart ass remark is out of my system, you are unlikely to
actually *need* any of the obviously more refined fit and finish, more
bulletproof layup, or the better systems choices you would gain by
choosing the Cobalt.
Enjoy them? Yes, you would, along with an increased pride of ownership
and better resale value. Based on the usage you describe, the 20-foot
Bayliner will probably prove as safe and capable as the 20-foot Cobalt.
Engine reliability will of course be about the same, assuming identical
power trains.


That latter statement would only be true if Bayliner spent as much time
and money installing the I/O drive and its accessories and wiring as
Cobalt, which is highly unlikely.


I'd have to disagree. Unless an installation were so sloppy as to be
actually defective, (and that isn't going to be the case), one
Mercruiser will run about as well as the next. Now it's absolutely true
that, for example, the engine mounts may be more precisely located (by
1000th of an inch or so) and more neatly integrated to the stringers on
a more expensive boat, but that isn't going to improve mechanical
reliablity over an installation that simply meets basic installation
specs without exceeding them. The critical engine wiring is done at the
engine factory, with a few connections to the boat and systems
remaining for the manufacturer. A properly formed and insulated basic
connection (like you would typically find on a Bayliner) will prove
just as reliable as a connection that is more "artfully" done.


Cobalt does include a 5-year powertrain warranty as a standard item,
and while that same warranty is undoubtedly available on a Bayliner
(through an optional, factory sponsored extension), I believe the
standard powertrain warranty on a new Bayliner is 2 years. (It recently
went up, and I can't remember without pulling my notes if it went up
from 1 to 2 or from 2 to 3- so shoot me if it's 3 and I said 2). The
difference has less to do with installation techniques than with the
fact that Cobalt has already built the extended warranty into its
pricing.

Comparing hull warranties is a bit tricky as well. Cobalt offers a
10-year hull warranty, while Bayliner offers a "limited, lifetime"
warranty on the hull.......((does that mean that when the hull "dies"
so does the warranty? probably not)).......as well as a more specific
and transferable 5-year warranty on the hull and deck. A "lifetime" can
be longer than 10 years, but 10 years is twice as long as 5 years, so
it gets a little bit fuzzy comparing apples and oranges in the hull and
deck department.

[Harry says a 20' Bayliner would be OK to go offshore if you keep your
eye on the weather].

There is a pretty sizable difference in price, so I'd like to know what
you think of the relative ocean-based performance of the 18, 19 and 20'
Bayliners. (The 18 is $13.5k, 19 is $21k and 20 is $24k).

I suspect I would mainly be staying in the ICW instead of going
offshore, but I remember Lake Worth gets pretty choppy, albiet not
nearly as much as the ocean.

Many thanks!

D

I would definitely check out the Crownline.


Okay, back to reality.

If I have aroud $20k to spend on a nice circa 18-20' runabout, what
really are the best quality choices?

What is the difference, in reality, between a $20,000-odd 20' Bayliner
and a $45,000-odd 20' Cobalt?

Thanks for your thoughts!


D

On 1 Jun 2006 08:28:50 -0700, "David H Dennis"
wrote:

I suspect I would mainly be staying in the ICW instead of going
offshore, but I remember Lake Worth gets pretty choppy, albiet not
nearly as much as the ocean.

That's a good assumption. I would personally not go in the ocean with
anything much under 23 or 24 feet except in the calmest and most
stable weather conditions. Even then there are many 24 and 25 footers
that get in trouble and capsize every year.

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:42:36 GMT, Don White wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote:

Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to the
elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows
and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering
the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car
till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.

My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows
and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same.

Wow, I didn't know it was possible to get a new vehicle without the 'power'
options. I see the power stuff is a $405 option for your truck, but for
many trucks and cars the power windows, etc., are standard equipment. The
F150 doesn't show power windows as an option so I assume they're standard
equipment, as is their locking system.

--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

ega wrote:
: I would definitely check out the Crownline.

Agreed.

Also: http://www.bluewater-boats.com/boats.html

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:42:36 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers wrote:
Don White wrote:

Don,

While in principle I agree with you, especially on a boat exposed to the
elements, I didn't even know they still made cars without power windows
and door locks.

With boats and cars, I would seriously consider buying the popular
options, even if it was not a high priority to me, if I was considering
the resale value of the boat/car. If you plan on keeping the boat/car
till it is ready for the scrap heap, it is not important.

My 2 month old 2006 Ford Ranger 'Sport' Super Cab has roll up windows
and manual locks. 1995 mini-van...same.

Wow, I didn't know it was possible to get a new vehicle without the
'power'
options. I see the power stuff is a $405 option for your truck, but for
many trucks and cars the power windows, etc., are standard equipment. The
F150 doesn't show power windows as an option so I assume they're standard
equipment, as is their locking system.

--
'Til next time,

John H



My hunch is that power windows and locks are cheaper to build and install
than their mechanical counterparts.

RCE

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 13:50:47 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

That's the problem with you monster-size boaters...no guts, no glory!

I have a 24 ft I/O also, never have gotten it into trouble but it's
easy to spot the limits when you're on open water. I had plenty of
(mis) adventures with small boats when I was growing up on Lake
Ontario as a kid, lucky to be here.

After you've seen a few pictures of capsized Grady White 24s and the
like, you realize that 24/25 is none too big on some days. When we
were in the Abacos last month there were 3 or 4 straight days of 25 to
30 kt north easterlies coming in from open ocean. Surf in the inlets
was running close to 20 ft. **Nobody** was going outside, not even
the 55 ft Hatts.