"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll grind it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow, we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a cross
to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else in the
world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy. There are far
more effective ways to cause change than the style you have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn those
that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so, motivated for
reasons that you obviously cannot understand because it's part of a
character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor does it
necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children to
not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do you
expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no sense
whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid may have to
take your place? That's absurd.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow, we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a cross
to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else in the
world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy. There are
far more effective ways to cause change than the style you have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor does
it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children to
not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do you
expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no sense
whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid may have to
take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It does
not mean they are bad people.

RCE

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow, we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else in
the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy. There
are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you have
chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children to
not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do you
expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no sense
whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid may have
to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.

On Tue, 09 May 2006 12:14:28 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"RCE" wrote in message
m...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow, we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else in
the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy. There
are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you have
chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children to
not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do you
expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no sense
whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid may have
to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
John H


Do you realize what you're saying here? That when you vote for a president,
you give him complete carte blanche to start a war for any reason at all,
and you'll go, no matter what the reason?

On Tue, 09 May 2006 12:30:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
John H


Do you realize what you're saying here? That when you vote for a president,
you give him complete carte blanche to start a war for any reason at all,
and you'll go, no matter what the reason?


It's so typical of your 'debating' technique to completely disregard what
was said so you can change a thread in a direction of your choice.

If I say, "I like cookies", does that mean I'm violently opposed to the
eating of meat and would like to see grackles treated with the same respect
given to engineers and doctors?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 May 2006 12:30:02 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..

I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please
don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve
because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts
and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more
opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
John H


Do you realize what you're saying here? That when you vote for a
president,
you give him complete carte blanche to start a war for any reason at all,
and you'll go, no matter what the reason?


It's so typical of your 'debating' technique to completely disregard what
was said so you can change a thread in a direction of your choice.

If I say, "I like cookies", does that mean I'm violently opposed to the
eating of meat and would like to see grackles treated with the same
respect
given to engineers and doctors?
John H

Obviously not, John. It means you like cookies. But, you are apparently
unable to explain something which makes no sense to me. How do you teach?

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
John H


Do you realize what you're saying here? That when you vote for a
president, you give him complete carte blanche to start a war for any
reason at all, and you'll go, no matter what the reason?


Nobody said that. You are over-simplifying again.

RCE

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please
don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve
because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts
and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more
opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
John H


Do you realize what you're saying here? That when you vote for a
president, you give him complete carte blanche to start a war for any
reason at all, and you'll go, no matter what the reason?


Nobody said that. You are over-simplifying again.

RCE


Well, I have no choice but to take stabs in the dark, since you & John are
unwilling to explore your own beliefs and explain them. But, I have an idea.
I'm wondering if the issue is something like religion. If you wait until a
kid is too old, it's very difficult to drag them to a house of worship
without a lot of resistance. You won't like this term, but religion really
is a form of conditioning. It has to begin at a very early age. The belief
in unquestioning duty may be similar. If you don't get that sermon early in
your life, you think differently and independently.

In WWII, my father flew a TBF Avenger (torpedo bomber) from aircraft
carriers in the Pacific, and has a couple of scars across his chest from
flying debris. He came pretty close to cashing it in, in other words. He
joined the Navy voluntarily a month after Pearl Harbor was attacked. When I
was 17, he commented that something smelled all wrong about the Vietnam war.
Too much double talk, too much bull****, and in spite of the Gulf of Tonkin
incident, which many veterans had doubts about even then, he felt there was
no clear motive for our presence in Vietnam. He suggested that I begin
reading everything I could get my hands on, in terms of news, and make my
own decision in a deeply informed way.

You should hear what he says now about Bush, Rumsfeld and the other things
who are sending our kids to die in Iraq. "These are boys in suits they're
not old enough to wear".

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow, we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid may
have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal feelings.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive. It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

RCE