On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:23:22 -0700, wrote:


My point is that for those at the top things are great and getting better,
but for those at the bottom things are not so great and prospects aren't
very bright, either. The number of folks in the "middle" is not increasing
as fast as the numbers on the extreme ends.

I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 07:23:45 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2006 15:23:22 -0700, wrote:


My point is that for those at the top things are great and getting better,
but for those at the bottom things are not so great and prospects aren't
very bright, either. The number of folks in the "middle" is not increasing
as fast as the numbers on the extreme ends.

I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

To combine legal and illegal immigration into the same argument is patently
ridiculous, not worthy of further discussion.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

thunder wrote:


I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end?
What happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?

"Don White" wrote in message
...
thunder wrote:


I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all
about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end?
What happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?

The concept of endless growth relates to a certain chauvinism. Anyone who
watches a nature show and hears about how animals manage their territories,
will say "Sure. That makes sense. Don't want too many wolves competing for
the same food supply". But, humans are loathe to consider themselves animals
and observe the same rules.

Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

thunder wrote:


I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration, both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all
about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end?
What happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?


The concept of endless growth relates to a certain chauvinism. Anyone who
watches a nature show and hears about how animals manage their territories,
will say "Sure. That makes sense. Don't want too many wolves competing for
the same food supply". But, humans are loathe to consider themselves animals
and observe the same rules.


What, killing outsiders that enroach on the pack's territory? I don't
think the undocumented would care for that. Only allowing the boss wolf
to breed? I wouldn't like that.

I don't think Wolves are an appropriate role model for people.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message
...

thunder wrote:


I've been following this thread with some amusement. Has anyone here
thought about what would happen to this country without immigration,
both
legal and illegal? This economy would collapse. As with most developed
countries, we depend on immigration for a growing economy. It's all
about
birthrates. The natives aren't breeding fast enough to sustain our
population, and, as our population ages, without immigration, this Ponzi
scheme will collapse. We can talk all we want about curbing illegal
immigration, but it ain't going to happen. We'll just make them legal.

There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end?
What happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?


The concept of endless growth relates to a certain chauvinism. Anyone who
watches a nature show and hears about how animals manage their
territories, will say "Sure. That makes sense. Don't want too many wolves
competing for the same food supply". But, humans are loathe to consider
themselves animals and observe the same rules.
What, killing outsiders that enroach on the pack's territory? I don't
think the undocumented would care for that. Only allowing the boss wolf
to breed? I wouldn't like that.

I don't think Wolves are an appropriate role model for people.

Actually, wolves very seldom kill each other over territory.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:49:00 +0000, Don White wrote:


There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end? What
happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?

Prospering is one thing, having a "growing" economy is another. People
can grow quite fat in a stable economy, but our leaders are judged on job
creation and other growth factors. More importantly, this country has
been living beyond it's means. Deficits have to be "grown" out of.
Social Security needs young blood to cover old farts like myself. We
either begin to breed like rabbits, or . . . It's immigration.

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:11:52 -0400, thunder wrote:

On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:49:00 +0000, Don White wrote:


There has to be a way for developed countries to prosper without
constantly growing the population. Otherwise...where will it all end? What
happens when there are 20 billion people on the planet?

Prospering is one thing, having a "growing" economy is another. People
can grow quite fat in a stable economy, but our leaders are judged on job
creation and other growth factors. More importantly, this country has
been living beyond it's means. Deficits have to be "grown" out of.
Social Security needs young blood to cover old farts like myself. We
either begin to breed like rabbits, or . . . It's immigration.

Again, you seem to see no difference in the illegal vs legal immigration.
That's why your argument is inane.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:28:52 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Again, you seem to see no difference in the illegal vs legal immigration.
That's why your argument is inane.

You seem to be the one hung up on a paper difference. Let me make it
simple for you. We need workers. If the illegals stopped coming, we
would simply increase the legal quotas. Cry all you want about illegal
immigration, Washington isn't listening. They know, we need the workers.

"thunder" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:28:52 -0400, JohnH wrote:


Again, you seem to see no difference in the illegal vs legal immigration.
That's why your argument is inane.

You seem to be the one hung up on a paper difference. Let me make it
simple for you. We need workers. If the illegals stopped coming, we
would simply increase the legal quotas. Cry all you want about illegal
immigration, Washington isn't listening. They know, we need the workers.


We just don't want them living too close by where we can see them.