On Tue, 2 May 2006 18:10:11 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers"
wrote:

Doug,

I have always thought of myself as a fiscal conservative, and a social
liberal. Since the Republicans have given up on the concept of being
fiscally conservative, I may have to look more closely at the Democratic
candidates this year.

Damn the Republicans have gone to hell in a handbasket. They must think
they are LBJ the way they are spending money they don't have.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.


Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?



Well, the Republicans are spending lots of money, but at least the money
provides jobs. I would rather see the money going to the military or even
to 'pork' projects than to more 'social welfare' programs that have only
one goal - to buy votes.

But, this is getting very political, so I'd better stop.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?

If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If he
is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican flag.


If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy American
employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's basically badly
paid slaves.

Obviously making more than a *badly paid slave* in Mexico while being here
*illegally* (psst, a key word). ;-)

They accept the wages proposed to them......some are more than
fair........some are not. And free housing (basic wood structure with bunk
living) is provided, at least at the places I have seen up north. No
taxes, no cost of housing.....all while being paid a better wage than they
could get in Mexico, while being here *illegally* (there is that word
again). Not a bad deal...........eh?

Once again, it is all about choice and personal responsibility.

On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:29:58 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?


If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If he is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican flag.


If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy
American employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's
basically badly paid slaves.

Sounds like the Colombian argument for allowing the production of cocaine.
"You make the demand, we just meet it. Stop the demand and the growers will
stop production."

Slow down production and the price increases. Ditto with wages.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Doug Kanter wrote:
"JimH" wrote in message
ups.com...
First show me folks who work 90 hours/week for only an annual income of
$25,000.

Even Micky D's pays more than the minimum wage. My son will be making
$10.50/hour plus painting houses this summer, plus another $1.50 for
every hour he worked if he does not miss work (except for vacations).


Never mind. You are unaware of how some people exist.

I certainly do. Do not even go there.

I just do not know of anyone working 90 hours/week at minimum wage. I
seriously doubt that you do.


OK then.

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:


"JimH" wrote in message
groups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.


Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?


If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If he
is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican flag.
John H

I forgot to include an important piece of this puzzle. Person B's spouse
works almost as many hours, so the kids are in day care a lot. Unless you
want your kids in a **** hole of a day care center, do you have any idea
what it costs?

On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:02:01 -0400, JohnH wrote:

Could the poor be getting poorer because they don't want to work?

I realize that demonizing the enemy; in this case, the working poor,
is a tried and true tactic that works in most cases. Lets give some
of them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are not lazy
slobs who aren't willing to work.

Hell,
we've got 10-15 million (depending on who is talking) illegal aliens who
came here and found jobs.

And where did they come from? What are the working conditions, pay
scale, and health care issues in the countries they came from? Are
you suggesting workers in this country should have to compete on an
equal basis with the worst of the third world working conditions, just
because it happens to be in the best financial interest of large and
very wealthy US businesses? Can you really justify helping those
folks who make millions of dollars a year make even more millions,
when it hurts the working class of this country? Do you realize it's
the middle class that has made this country great, and special, and
the ideal of most of the world? Feeding the greed of the wealthy in
this country is a cause worthy of destroying what has made this
country what it is?


If they *are* the poor you refer to, then it's
their own damn fault, and their poverty is certainly skewing the statistic.

Yeah, it's their own damned fault they don't have billions of dollars
to funnel into the campaign funds of politicians so they can get
special privileges. It's their own damned fault they can't afford
decent health care because the health care lobbies have been able to
prevent health care reform in order to protect the massive profits.
It's their own damned fault the oil companies have a free hand to
write federal energy policy to protect their profits. It's their own
damned fault the environmental laws have been watered down to the
point of being useless in order to increase the profits of the
corporations. It's their own damned fault the federal reserve has
flooded the market with liquidity to the point of making our currency
almost worthless.

Do you have any values that benefit anyone beyond your immediate
family?

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
oups.com...

JimH wrote:
First show me folks who work 90 hours/week for only an annual income
of
$25,000.

Even Micky D's pays more than the minimum wage. My son will be making
$10.50/hour plus painting houses this summer, plus another $1.50 for
every hour he worked if he does not miss work (except for vacations).

Your son lives at home and eats out of the family fridge. Big
difference.

Actually no. The point I made is that is that even a high school
student
can find a job making far more than minimum wage.

Even if you charge him a token amount for room and board,
that doesn't compare to trying to make it on his own with a $420/week
gross income and paying the actual expenses.

I never brought up anything about trying to make a living on minimum
wage
Chuck. I agree, it has to be tough. But that was a decision those
folks
living at those wages made at some point in their teenage years.

Skipping out of school. Not being dependable at work. Showing up late
or
not showing up at all. Settling for jobs that require no commitment.
Going from minimum wage job to job to job because of all that.

*Our* fault?

The minimum wage was established for entry level jobs......no skills
needed....no education needed. Just show up and work and over time you
get
raises. Perhaps you are motivated enough to work hard towards the job
of
supervisor, then store manager.

It is *your* choice which path *you* choose to take.


Your son is lucky he has
his family to fall back on, and lucky that he doesn't have to work for
$8-9 an hour like many others do in this WalMart economic model.

My son found this job on his own, as did my daughter. Both are making
over
$10/hour and neither has yet been out fending for themselves.

The point being is that no one *has to* work for minimum wage other than
the
folks who have no education and/or cannot hold a job because they are
lazy.
And even if they did they can still work to better themselves with
continued
education......hard work and discipline required though. ;-)

It is all about choice and taking responsibility for the directions in
life
you choose. And it is possible to recover from the bad
choices...........but that requires commitment and hard work. We are
now
back to my original point. ;-)



The fact is that the minimum wage is an artificial bar created by the
guvmint that disrupts the economic basic of supply and demand. It is a prop
for the weak minded and the unions.

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
news

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?

If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If
he
is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican
flag.


If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy
American
employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's basically badly
paid slaves.

Obviously making more than a *badly paid slave* in Mexico while being
here
*illegally* (psst, a key word). ;-)

They accept the wages proposed to them......some are more than
fair........some are not. And free housing (basic wood structure with
bunk
living) is provided, at least at the places I have seen up north. No
taxes, no cost of housing.....all while being paid a better wage than
they
could get in Mexico, while being here *illegally* (there is that word
again). Not a bad deal...........eh?

Once again, it is all about choice and personal responsibility.

Exactly, no one is forced at gunpoint to work at any particular job.
The minimum wage myth is a union prop.

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JohnH wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2006 19:17:35 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

wrote:

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.

Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?

If person B is an illegal immigrant, then he shouldn't be whining. If he
is
a legal immigrant, then he should be whining about all the cheap labor
coming over the border, not marching in the streets under a Mexican flag.


If Person B is an illegal, he's here working because some sleazy American
employer found a way to exploit cheap labor. Person B's basically badly
paid slaves.

And how do you know this? They are making better wages than a lot of
people. Day laborers in Los Angeles get $10 / hour minimum. Tax free.
Beats the hell out of $9/ hour at McD's. Even legal to work people work as
day laborers in California. Hard to hire day workers from the state
agencies. A few years ago, cleaning out the in-laws house to get it ready
to sell, I called up California EDD, Employment fDevelopment Department for
4 laborers for a Saturday. Paying 150% of minimum wage for them. EDD said
OK. No one showed up. Is why the Mexicans and other Central Americans are
being hired. They show up and work. I picked up 3 workers in Berkeley, and
as we leave, the only legal one is a 60 year old green card Mexican. Other
2 are from El Salvador and I assume they are not legal. An about 22 year
old white guy is on the corner with a sign asking for money as he is
homeless. The Mexican says "Lazy, just damn lazy!". And he is correct.
The street people in San Francisco cause all kinds of problems by living on
the street, and still get $500 month stipend. What are your cures for the
problem?

"Reginald P. Smithers" wrote in message
. ..
Doug,

I have always thought of myself as a fiscal conservative, and a social
liberal. Since the Republicans have given up on the concept of being
fiscally conservative, I may have to look more closely at the Democratic
candidates this year.

Damn the Republicans have gone to hell in a handbasket. They must think
they are LBJ the way they are spending money they don't have.


"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"JimH" wrote in message
oups.com...
If there is a will there is a way. It depends on how motivated the
person is to succeed in life.

Excuses are easy.


Person A works a 40 hour week and makes 50k a year.
Person B works a 90 hour week and makes 25k a year.

Would you theorize that it's easier, or harder for person B to go to
college?



Only 20% of the population should go to college. The rest are not college
material. We need trade schools etc. for the kids while in High School.
The state college administrators in California lobbied to eliminate manual
arts classes. Worse thing they could of done. A lot of those dropouts
would be making good salaries as auto mechanics, boat mechanics, etc, and
stayed in school and graduated. How many companies are trying to hire
machinists? Quite a few, but where is the training for them?