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Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Hey, let the price of gasoline get up around ten bucks a
gallon, and electric bills into solid five figures, and people will be less concerned about the view. Funny thing, that will drive up the desirability... and thus the price... of places that still have some unspoiled nature. It's like a merry-go-round. Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: So true, but it's very curious that, to me at least, we can come up with something like a viable alternative to take the Vineyard off the grid and everybody and their uncle who has a "view" says nope including the very politicians who are ****ing and moaning about energy policy. It just seems counter-productive to me and very much in the vein of do as I say, not as I do. It's an extreme case of NIMBY. But it may be that their wallets will eventually dictate otherwise (when the island becomes uninhabitable for anybody who can't afford a $10k electric bill); the other option is that the island will become even more a preserve for the ultra-wealthy than it already is. But then, where are their servants going to live? To some extent, I can see the logic... property there is *very* valuable and "the view" is part of what makes it so. Will lower energy costs (and let's not forget about higher reliability) make up for the drop in property values? I get along with everybody. in the neighborhood. Obviously you don't get along as well as all that, or your neighbors would have shrugged and said "Gonna put up a windmill to generate electricity? Cool." And I pretty much get along with everybody here - except for you and I suspect that is probably becasue we have two differing views of the world. Actually there are a number of people you seem to have disagreements with... mostly liberals... but I seem to invoke your ire to larger degree (and I take it as a compliment that the facts & logic I present are actually shifting your world view.... very very slightly). The nation's leaders have been looking backwards, and mostly investing in convincing as many people as they can that "alternative energy" is for weirdos. Until the last couple of months, that is. Suddenly they have stolen Al Gore's energy playbook (although they still scream that Democrats have no ideas). I disagree, but that's for another time. Go ahead, I'm listening. Do you disagree that President Bush's ideas on a progressive energy policy came largely from Al Gore's speeches from 1999? That is not just my opinion, it has been stated by many conservatives, neo- and otherwise... stated vociferously in some cases! Do you disagree that the Bush-Cheney Administration has been driving America backwards with regard to energy policy? That seems to be indicated not only by President Bush's about-face speech, but also by several statements made by Vice President Cheney at several points in his career. Practically his first utterances as CEO of Halliburton were on the nature of geo-political shifts due to the necessity of adapting policy to the realities of post-peak oil supply. In other words, they not only have been driving backwards, they've been doing it on purpose. Go ahead and refute that if you can, I'd like to see it. In fact, I'd like to see more good things about the Bush-Cheney Administration, since it makes me unhappy to think that they are not only a disaster but a deliberate one. However, around election time, when I asked this question, all I got was insults & abuse. At times, I get cynical enough to think that *nobody* actually likes Bush & Cheney, or thinks that they are doing a good job... they just support them because 1- in the case of many columnists & commentators, because they're paid to and 2- because it's just so much fun to hate hate hate libby-rulls. There are guys out there making bio-diesel. Just gotta find one in your area... Nope. Not a one that I don't have to travel 150 miles round trip to get to. Kinda counter productive. I have thought of getting into the business myself, but I'm not at all sure I could break even just selling the fuel. At this point, there seem to be other motives than profit and the business model seems to include free raw materials (and as you say, it's better for the restaurants to give it away than to pay to dispose of it). Looks to me like selling to the public at-large is a money loser, at this point. But for $8/gal? And that price level is coming! I've read a lot of stuff about people making biodiesel. most seem to be into it for their own use or for a co-op of small businesses that have committed to it. But it's real, it works, there is evidence that it's better for your engine! DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:25:17 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote: Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and see. One man opinion. You just don't get it. The Hubbert Curve is not an opinion, it is science. US continental production did peak in 1971-72. That is a fact. Hubbert predicted it would peak between 1965-1970. He also predicted world production would peak in 2000. As it takes several years for a true peak to become apparent, it is not now known if he was accurate, but there are many that believe the peak was in 2004. Whenever the true peak occurs know that, at that time, 1/2 the world's oil supplies will be gone. Also know that the world will never run out of oil, it will run out of economically obtainable oil, and I don't mean expensive. If it takes more oil to find, transport, and process, than is recovered, the field is abandoned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak Science is consensus that is often proved to have been "wrong" when arriving at the next consensus. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:40:39 +0000, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
At this point, I don't think anybody truly knows what is or isn't true about oil. Well, one thing we do know, it's a finite resource. There is no doubting that. The argument isn't if world oil will peak, it's when. Most of us consider oil only as something to fuel our vehicles. However, it's other uses, medicines, plastics, etc., might prove more irreplaceable in the long run. To me, it seems downright foolhardy to race to the precipice, when we don't know when that precipice will occur. The truth is, oil will not run out in our lifetimes, but what of our children's lifetimes? The following quote may not be completely accurate, but it is food for thought. "It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of it here on Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the sense of developing high intelligence this is not correct. We have, or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned. The same will be true of other planetary systems. On each of them there will be one chance, and one chance only." (Hoyle, 1964) |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:27:44 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil. So some faceless EPA type convinced somebody to use ethanol, the politicans bought into it because it looks good to farmers and we buy it from Brazil. It's actually worse than that. Supposedly the net energy cost of producing ethanol is greater than the energy delivered in combustion, taking into account fertilizer production, planting, harvesting, distribution, etc. Oops, there goes that idea. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:48:27 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak Science is consensus that is often proved to have been "wrong" when arriving at the next consensus. In your world, is it flat? What is science other than observation and consensus on that observation? |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 22:59:09 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:42:53 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:32:59 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:25:02 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. On the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. :) Woof. That reminds me, I've gotta go get some of the matted hair off the bearded collie. Anyone want a bearded collie? They're about as stupid a dog as you could ever hope to find! It happens with Border's too. Amazing how much hair herding dogs have. From what I've heard, Border Collies are smart enough to brush their own hair! I ended up cutting the mats out. The dog seems to realize the value of being still when I'm working on it with a pair of sharp scissors in hand. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:00:56 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:27:44 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil. So some faceless EPA type convinced somebody to use ethanol, the politicans bought into it because it looks good to farmers and we buy it from Brazil. It's actually worse than that. Supposedly the net energy cost of producing ethanol is greater than the energy delivered in combustion, taking into account fertilizer production, planting, harvesting, distribution, etc. Oops, there goes that idea. If a farmer raises corn, he sells the corn and makes a profit (albeit not much). If he then cuts the stalks for ethanol use, hasn't he already recouped the cost of the fertilizer and planting of the corn? A little enlightenment here would be appreciated. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do this we all know you are making this up. -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:42:53 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:32:59 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:25:02 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. On the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. :) Woof. That reminds me, I've gotta go get some of the matted hair off the bearded collie. Anyone want a bearded collie? They're about as stupid a dog as you could ever hope to find! It happens with Border's too. Amazing how much hair herding dogs have. Both you and JohnH need to check out the Furmingator. Great tool to get rid of the undercoat, which is what normally mats up. -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Sat, 01 Apr 2006 07:46:18 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote: Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:42:53 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:32:59 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:25:02 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. On the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. :) Woof. That reminds me, I've gotta go get some of the matted hair off the bearded collie. Anyone want a bearded collie? They're about as stupid a dog as you could ever hope to find! It happens with Border's too. Amazing how much hair herding dogs have. Both you and JohnH need to check out the Furmingator. Great tool to get rid of the undercoat, which is what normally mats up. I think the alligator idea is great! -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message . .. Bert Robbins wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do this we all know you are making this up. I'm sure Krause has that information in the dossier he has on me, ask him he will be able to access it faster than I can. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message . .. Bert Robbins wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do this we all know you are making this up. I'm sure Krause has that information in the dossier he has on me, ask him he will be able to access it faster than I can. Bert, I can't say anything negative about Krause, for the last 6-8 weeks he has been the ideal NG contributor. Many of us can learn from his restraint in not taking the bait when it has been dangled in front of him. Why don't you put yours and Harry's battles behind you and enjoy the NG? -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message ... Bert Robbins wrote: "Reggie Smithers" wrote in message . .. Bert Robbins wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do this we all know you are making this up. I'm sure Krause has that information in the dossier he has on me, ask him he will be able to access it faster than I can. Bert, I can't say anything negative about Krause, for the last 6-8 weeks he has been the ideal NG contributor. Many of us can learn from his restraint in not taking the bait when it has been dangled in front of him. Why don't you put yours and Harry's battles behind you and enjoy the NG? You must have missed the jabs he has been throwing at me. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message ... Bert Robbins wrote: "Reggie Smithers" wrote in message . .. Bert Robbins wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do this we all know you are making this up. I'm sure Krause has that information in the dossier he has on me, ask him he will be able to access it faster than I can. Bert, I can't say anything negative about Krause, for the last 6-8 weeks he has been the ideal NG contributor. Many of us can learn from his restraint in not taking the bait when it has been dangled in front of him. Why don't you put yours and Harry's battles behind you and enjoy the NG? You must have missed the jabs he has been throwing at me. Bert, That might be true, because I probably skip over half the messages, but still, why don't you put the battles behind you and enjoy the NG. Harry and I used to slug it out as much as anyone in the NG. Since the two of us have decided it is stupid as hell to continue the battle, I have enjoy the NG much more. I also find many of Harry's boating posts to be very informative and occasionally he post some very subtle jokes that I have enjoyed. -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Reggie Smithers" wrote in message ... Bert Robbins wrote: "Reggie Smithers" wrote in message . .. Bert Robbins wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Your belief or disbelief is does not matter. I still get paid. Please post a scan of your paycheck stub, your 2005 Income Tax, your college degree and your drivers license, your fingerprints and a retina scan all verified by 3 independent Notary Publics. If you refuse to do this we all know you are making this up. I'm sure Krause has that information in the dossier he has on me, ask him he will be able to access it faster than I can. Bert, I can't say anything negative about Krause, for the last 6-8 weeks he has been the ideal NG contributor. Many of us can learn from his restraint in not taking the bait when it has been dangled in front of him. What have you been smoking? Why don't you put yours and Harry's battles behind you and enjoy the NG? -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"DSK" wrote in message ... Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: I'm all for exploring and opening up new fields with new technology - available now for such as deep water and such. I'm also not against drilling off Martha's Vineyard either, but it would ruin the view so let's not do that huh? Hey, let the price of gasoline get up around ten bucks a gallon, and electric bills into solid five figures, and people will be less concerned about the view. Funny thing, that will drive up the desirability... and thus the price... of places that still have some unspoiled nature. It's like a merry-go-round. I'm all for alternative energy, but the battles you have to fight to get anything done are ridiculous. In my own personal experience, I had to give up on putting a wind generator in my own backyard because the neighbors raised a ruckus - mostly because of my wife's position in town, I never really pursued it beyond attempting to get a permit. Well, maybe you should invest a little time & effort in getting along with your neighbors. Around here you seem to invest none at all in either learning about nor understanding anybody else's point of view; do you act significantly different at home? Consider the wave generation plant an Aussie firm wanted to put at Point Judith. That one never even got beyond the planning stages because every enviro nut in the universe had a complaint from sucking fish into the turbine blades to the main town committee saying it was ugly. What the hell are you supposed to do when everybody has a better idea or some complaint? Give up, I guess. Another point to consider is that a large number of the objections may seem to come from the left wing whackos, but is in fact funded & directed by the people who have big bucks at stake... the entrenched energy companies. For example, want to take any guesses as to who profited from Vice President Cheney's secret energy policy 2001 ~ 2005? Want to guess who gets the lion's share of gov't hand-outs? We already can make a good guess how progressive & forward-looking those policies have been, since the most obvious facet of that policy is to fight big expensive wars for cheap oil. The nation's leaders have been looking backwards, and mostly investing in convincing as many people as they can that "alternative energy" is for weirdos. Until the last couple of months, that is. Suddenly they have stolen Al Gore's energy playbook (although they still scream that Democrats have no ideas). At this point, I don't think anybody truly knows what is or isn't true about oil. And so, of course you have every excuse to proclaim that we have pleny of oil forever & ever. I don't think anybody has actually said that. Perhaps not in so many words. Funny thing though, if any serious scientist had the evidence to revise King Hubbert's figures, he'd be a big deal in the oil world. Nobody has. What do you think that means? Dunno- but I can say that almost everybody had a dog in this hunt from the enviros to the drillers to the people who consume and everybody is ****ing on everybody else's shoes. We aren't going to get anywhere until somebody stands up and say enough rather than pander to get elected again - and again - and again... Agreed. My beef with you personally is that you have come down solidly on the side of the worst panderers, again and again... and directed a lot of personal insults my way for attempting to put forth some facts. But let's not dwell on the past. If I could find an alternative to fuel my diesel with, I would - in a heartbeat. I know farmer's here in town who would do it in a heartbeat if they could obtain the bio or soy based diesel. There are guys out there making bio-diesel. Just gotta find one in your area... One of the things I've noticed about bio-diesel generators currently in place is that they seem to rely heavily on using cooking oil from fast food places... not that I'm against that, but if the raw material is free and the fuel generated still costs more than petro-diesel, what will be the market price of the stuff? Consider this - we're supposedly switching over to ethanol blend rather than MTBE because of some dubious science about MTBE (think saccharin testing) - it's supposed to be a boon to our farmers and our agriculture system - burn corn right? Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil. Or any place that grows a grain that can be turned into ethanol. Kansas? Iowa? My side yard? Brazil is a great example of mass use of alternative fueled vehicles though. Bonus points to you for knowing about it. Until somebody does, we're going to continued to get high fuel prices and do nothing about reducing out dependence on crude oil Well, part of the problem is there is no replacement on the horizon that is cost competitive with petro-fuels... and probably won't be until that price goes up a lot more (I'm guessing double). OTOH as technology advances, we can make it cheaper so the price of the alternatives go down. Ditto for economies of scale, once large capacity plants are up & running the costs will drop even more. 2 more issues to think about- Only fuel on the horizon that offers anywhere near the same bang for the buck... or per pound... is hydrogen. All other alternatives fuels are bulky & weak; and most of them have handling issues as well (although those can be solved with a combination of technology & familiarity). Hydrogen has been known for centuries, since long before gasoline as a matter of fact. Hydrogen is difficult to handle and can be dangerous, and if it were all that promising a fuel, we probably would have been using it before we started up with gasoline. So we can expect fuels of the future to be more troublesome & aggravating & time consuming than we are accustomed to with gasoline. Next, where are we going to get plastic from, once the cost of oil goes sky high? IMHO future generations are going to think we were incredibly stupid to burn up all that raw petroleum which could have been turned into space-age material goods, instead of gunking up the air so we can drive SUVs to the mall. They will probably be mining our landfills for sources of PVC & other plastics. As you can see, I have a lot to say on this subject, I don't think we (the U.S.A.) are taking it anywhere near seriously enough. Regards Doug King As to Oil companies blocking alternative energy. Chevron has one of the bigger alternative energy suppliers under it's flag. As long as they sell energy, they make money. Be it oil, or solar, they bank money. As to alcohol over MTBE, is an improvement, but is also a Federal requirement to use an oxygenate. Chevron and the others outside of Arco all said they could meet the standards without mandatory addition of an oxygenate. Arco, was the seller of MTBE. A government mandated disaster. Super toxic, and super corrosive and pollutes our waters. Eats up the Fiberglass tanks at stations and eats the seals on pipelines. Major reason so many more refinery fires these days. Old days a $5 nitril seal on a pipe connection lasted over a year. Now a $100 seal lasts about 6 months. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Calif Bill wrote:
As to Oil companies blocking alternative energy. Chevron has one of the bigger alternative energy suppliers under it's flag. As long as they sell energy, they make money. Be it oil, or solar, they bank money. So does BP-Amoco and IIRC Phillips too. They're not dumb, they know someday the oil will run out and they definitely want to stay in business. OTOH that doesn't mean that they either stomp on things that threaten them (just human nature) and/or work behind the scenes to run the price up (which increases their profits on both oil and alternatives). Like I said, they're not dumb. ... As to alcohol over MTBE, is an improvement, but is also a Federal requirement to use an oxygenate. Chevron and the others outside of Arco all said they could meet the standards without mandatory addition of an oxygenate. Arco, was the seller of MTBE. A government mandated disaster. Super toxic, and super corrosive and pollutes our waters. Eats up the Fiberglass tanks at stations and eats the seals on pipelines. Major reason so many more refinery fires these days. Old days a $5 nitril seal on a pipe connection lasted over a year. Now a $100 seal lasts about 6 months. I hadn't realized MTBE was that bad for the handling systems. I wonder how it affect lubricant chemistry. Gasahol has a number of similar issues, but it seems likely to not be that bad. It's a weaker fuel though. DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Go ahead, I'm listening.
Do you disagree that President Bush's ideas on a progressive energy policy came largely from Al Gore's speeches from 1999? That is not just my opinion, it has been stated by many conservatives, neo- and otherwise... stated vociferously in some cases! Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Then we can end it right here. If it was copied right from Al Gore's play book, it really isn't working is it? Depends on what you mean. Al Gore's playbook worked just fine for 8 years, including a higher level of bipartisanship than most Republicans would want to admit nowadays. Or do you mean that Al Gore's playbook "doesn't work" because it didn't get him elected? If that's the case, then President Bush must be pretty desperate to start quoting it now, trying to bring his numbers up. Or maybe not, old Al got 49.9% of the vote and Bush's numbers are much lower than that now. Either way, it's nice to see some forward-thinking leadership. I was just remarking how the politicking on the issue is so very very far from the facts... and of course the far-right talking heads push it even further from reality. ..... At times, I get cynical enough to think that *nobody* actually likes Bush & Cheney, or thinks that they are doing a good job... they just support them because 1- in the case of many columnists & commentators, because they're paid to and 2- because it's just so much fun to hate hate hate libby-rulls. I don't hate libby-rulls. Some of my best friends are liberals. My family hold social views directly opposite mine. I'm not surprised. ;) .... But it's real, it works, there is evidence that it's better for your engine! I've read about that, but the process is more complicated than you think. ??? How complicated do I think it is? ... And there are fuel delivery mods that have to be made as I understand it, but I haven't checked into it in a year or so. From what I've read, once the stuff comes out of the cooker, it's handled just like regular diesel. http://www.homebiodieselkits.com/smallbatchkit.html DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"DSK" wrote in message
.. . Go ahead, I'm listening. Do you disagree that President Bush's ideas on a progressive energy policy came largely from Al Gore's speeches from 1999? That is not just my opinion, it has been stated by many conservatives, neo- and otherwise... stated vociferously in some cases! Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Then we can end it right here. If it was copied right from Al Gore's play book, it really isn't working is it? Depends on what you mean. Al Gore's playbook worked just fine for 8 years, including a higher level of bipartisanship than most Republicans would want to admit nowadays. Or do you mean that Al Gore's playbook "doesn't work" because it didn't get him elected? If that's the case, then President Bush must be pretty desperate to start quoting it now, trying to bring his numbers up. Or maybe not, old Al got 49.9% of the vote and Bush's numbers are much lower than that now. Either way, it's nice to see some forward-thinking leadership. I was just remarking how the politicking on the issue is so very very far from the facts... and of course the far-right talking heads push it even further from reality. No matter what party they're from, our erected leaders will say whatever they're instructed to say about oil, energy, or pretty much anything else. All good little sheep. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
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Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "DSK" wrote in message .. . Go ahead, I'm listening. Do you disagree that President Bush's ideas on a progressive energy policy came largely from Al Gore's speeches from 1999? That is not just my opinion, it has been stated by many conservatives, neo- and otherwise... stated vociferously in some cases! Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: Then we can end it right here. If it was copied right from Al Gore's play book, it really isn't working is it? Depends on what you mean. Al Gore's playbook worked just fine for 8 years, including a higher level of bipartisanship than most Republicans would want to admit nowadays. Or do you mean that Al Gore's playbook "doesn't work" because it didn't get him elected? If that's the case, then President Bush must be pretty desperate to start quoting it now, trying to bring his numbers up. Or maybe not, old Al got 49.9% of the vote and Bush's numbers are much lower than that now. Either way, it's nice to see some forward-thinking leadership. I was just remarking how the politicking on the issue is so very very far from the facts... and of course the far-right talking heads push it even further from reality. No matter what party they're from, our erected leaders will say whatever they're instructed to say about oil, energy, or pretty much anything else. All good little sheep. We need to have Senator's selected from the several states legislatures. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message . .. No matter what party they're from, our erected leaders will say whatever they're instructed to say about oil, energy, or pretty much anything else. All good little sheep. We need to have Senator's selected from the several states legislatures. No. We need to audit the finances of all erected officials. Once a week is about right. And, if they buy anything more expensive than a 1/2 gallon of milk, they need to account for the income which allowed them to do that. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 06:26:45 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message m... No matter what party they're from, our erected leaders will say whatever they're instructed to say about oil, energy, or pretty much anything else. All good little sheep. We need to have Senator's selected from the several states legislatures. No. We need to audit the finances of all erected officials. Once a week is about right. And, if they buy anything more expensive than a 1/2 gallon of milk, they need to account for the income which allowed them to do that. A tad Draconian I suspect. Oh well. You can't have legislators making decisions based on who's on their knees offering favors. Enough already. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 20:18:10 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote: The oil companies have a balancing act, they need to keep gasoline affordable to the masses, otherwise, people will find other alternatives. No they won't and you know it. There aren't alternatives. Neighhhhhhhh... You guys in the country with room for horses and an oat field on the back 40 will have it made. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 20:18:10 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing wrote: The oil companies have a balancing act, they need to keep gasoline affordable to the masses, otherwise, people will find other alternatives. No they won't and you know it. There aren't alternatives. Neighhhhhhhh... You guys in the country with room for horses and an oat field on the back 40 will have it made. Not until they invent an on/off switch for those suckers. RCE |
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