|
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Clue- oil is non-renewable. No matter how much exploration is done, we
will run out eventually. Bert Robbins wrote: When we, everyone on the entire planet, start to really run out of oil we will be forced to find other means of producing energy and goods from oil. Hello? Hello? There are already other means of producing energy. In fact, our President gave a speech earlier this year on the wisdom of expanding them. And nobody is being "forced" to do anything about oil or alternatives. It's a matter of cost & profitability. Oil has been very cheap for a long time... that is changing as oil supply declines and demand goes up. But, until that time we will continue to drill, pump and burn oil. Are you under the impression that there will be oodles & oodles of oil, until one morning in the distant future, there will suddenly be none? That's not the way it works. As with many other things in nature, the amount of oil which can be pumped out of the ground follows a bell curve. Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and see. ... There is not economic incentive to switch away from oil, there is only an emotional desire on the part of some. You're disagreeing with President Bush's speech? The economic incentives are clear 1- avoid pollution 2- make profits on other sources of energy 3- avoid economic dislocation & disruption as oil becomes A very smart scientist... who made a lot of money in the oil business... named King Hubbert worked out the math of global oil supply a long time ago. Really? I thought that the supply of oil was going to run out in 30 years, Do you know exactly what day? I will want to sell short that morning, thanks. with the clock startign to click in the late 1970's. The U.S. (which used to be an oil exporter) hit it's oil peak in the 1970s, which was accurately predicted by Dr. Hubbert in the 1940s. The global oil supply/demand situation is a bit more complex. However, it seems likely that Hubbert's math was still pretty good. Now, bonus question: do you suppose that with the ramping up of China and the other Pacific Rim economies, that world oil demand is higher or lower than Hubbert plotted from a vantage point of approx 50 years ago? Of course, you haven't liked any of the FACTS introduced into this thread so far, and you won't like these FACTS either because they prove you're wrong. Ice age. Global warming. What's next. I thought you knew? One thing is for sure, the retardo-fascists will be screaming that it's all the fault of liberals. And ignoring any facts they stumble over. DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
RayB wrote:
When you're retired all you have to do is breathe between paychecks!! ;) Even that gets tedious during the long winters. Gotta have some kind of activity to keep you sane. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in news:zN6dnd2- : "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. Is that a fancy name for a stockboy? You give him too much credit. What kind of work do you do? It appears you're not fond of discussing it. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in news:zN6dnd2- : "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. Is that a fancy name for a stockboy? You give him too much credit. What kind of work do you do? It appears you're not fond of discussing it. Why is that important to you Doug? |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message . .. "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in news:zN6dnd2- : "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. Is that a fancy name for a stockboy? You give him too much credit. What kind of work do you do? It appears you're not fond of discussing it. Why is that important to you Doug? I'll tell you when I have an answer to the question. My answer is "none of your business". OK.....your turn. ;-) |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in : What kind of work do you do? It appears you're not fond of discussing it. Why is that important to you Doug? Doug's just a total social reject, an intellectual cesspool and a bitter, jealous fool. He demands that everyone drive a hybrid, yet he reserves for himself the right to a fuel-inefficient gas powered truck to haul a gas-guzzling self-indulgent playtoy boat. He feigns concern about the "energy crisis" yet opposes ANWR exploration so his moveon.org membership card won't get revoked. He caterwauls about the alleged human causes of "global warming" but can't identify the brand of SUV that Martians have been driving to cause Mars' temperature to increase. In short, he's an insignificant boil on the rump of the darkest place on earth. The most positive thing one can say about his incoherent posts and off-topic questions is that he doesn't top-post. What an epitaph. What kind of work do you do? Now, I'll tell you why I'm asking. I'm wondering what sort of profession you could have, where you could get away with absolutely no ability to draw conclusions from simple facts, and having the attention span of a fruit fly would have no impact on your work. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
What kind of work do you do? It appears you're not fond of discussing
it. " JimH" wrote Why is that important to you Doug? Why is it important to *you* that you jump into this pig-pile and insult him for asking a simple question, which he has already answered himself? Fred Dehl wrote: Doug's just a total social reject Yes, that's why you & your fellow pig-pilers have banded together to insult him for his occupation, while you are apparently ashamed to disclose yours. ... an intellectual cesspool I guess that's why every single one of your assertions about the oil/energy situation has been proven wrong ... and a bitter, jealous fool. I guess that is why he has answered a perfectly reasonable question, which you continue to dodge, even though he asked you first ... He demands that everyone drive a hybrid Please quote his post where he made this demand. .... yet he reserves for himself the right to a fuel-inefficient gas powered truck to haul a gas-guzzling self-indulgent playtoy boat. In other words, you don't have a boat yourself, do you Fred? DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"basskisser" wrote in message oups.com... JimH wrote: "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. Is that a fancy name for a stockboy? ;-) Just kidding............just kidding........... Guess not everybody can be an insurance salesman...... Good afternoon Bassy. Repeat after me...........serenity now..........serenity now.........serenity now.........aaaaaaaauuuuummmmmmmmmm........ |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
... gas-guzzling self-indulgent playtoy boat. A 14 foot boat with a 15 hp 4-stroke motor, which goes through 20 gallons of fuel per year??? I won't argue with "self-indulgent playtoy", though. :) You should get one, Phreddie. I might do you a world of good. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in : "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... gas-guzzling self-indulgent playtoy boat. A 14 foot boat with a 15 hp 4-stroke motor, which goes through 20 gallons of fuel per year??? You need a truck to tow that? Just put training wheels on in and pedal it to the lake. True to form....at least you're consistently obnoxious. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
I guess that's why every single one of your assertions about
the oil/energy situation has been proven wrong Fred Dehl wrote: Not one statement I've made in this thread has been false. Pretty much all your statements are not only false but offensively so. For example, you posted: "people who don't enjoy the premium of driving a less-efficient vehicle are stupid." Originally I thought you were trying to be funny- a charicature of the bonehead caveman neo-conservative. Then I realized that you really are not only misinformed, but arrogantly so, and you seem to be mad at the world. Maybe because you were mistreated as a child? I guess that is why he has answered a perfectly reasonable question, which you continue to dodge, even though he asked you first His question is not relevant to the topic. And yu statements are relevant? Nonetheless, Doung Kanter answered the question even though he asked you first, now you continue to dodge. Why? Are you ashamed of your lowly job? You've already insulted Doug over his profession, now you can't take the heat yourself, can you? And you never did answer my question. You are fat & bald, aren't you Fred? How's your blood pressure? ... It's an immature and desperate attempt to divert attention from his idiocy. That you think his statements are "idiocy" says more about you than about him. So far, you are the one who has been wrong pretty much across the board. For another example, do you really expect oil prices do drop .... and stay low... compared to today's market prices? Do you really think that massive exploration & drilling new wells is the answer to diminishing oil supplies? What do you think oil companies have been doing for the past 85 years? What do you think of Vice President Cheney's statements to the effect that there are no significant new reserves to be discovered? In other words, all your arrogantly ignorant bluster is just an attempt to blame liberals for an inherent problem which was not only long forseen but deliberately made worse... for profit... by leaders that you loudly approve of. Who's been fooled? In other words, you don't have a boat yourself, do you Fred? Yes I do. But I'm not a pompous hypocrite about it. ??? What is being a "pompous hypocrit" about having a boat? This is a boating discussion group Fred. You've accused Doug Kanter of having a "gas-guzzler" boat even though you said yourself that this is an insulting term. You deliberately insult others and then scream & whine when your nose is rubbed in your own stupidity. Is your boat a sailboat, Fred? DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"DSK" wrote in message ... Clue- oil is non-renewable. No matter how much exploration is done, we will run out eventually. Bert Robbins wrote: When we, everyone on the entire planet, start to really run out of oil we will be forced to find other means of producing energy and goods from oil. Hello? Hello? I'm here now. I have to work during the day and can't sit around and post on USENET like Dougie K and Bassie. There are already other means of producing energy. In fact, our President gave a speech earlier this year on the wisdom of expanding them. What means are there for producing energy for automobiles and trucks that don't require an extension cord? And, are those means as efficient and cost effective as oil? And nobody is being "forced" to do anything about oil or alternatives. It's a matter of cost & profitability. Oil has been very cheap for a long time... that is changing as oil supply declines and demand goes up. The supply is not declining, OPEC can increase the supply at will but, the demand is increasing. The known "reserves" are described as declining. But, until that time we will continue to drill, pump and burn oil. Are you under the impression that there will be oodles & oodles of oil, until one morning in the distant future, there will suddenly be none? I thought that was your position. I believe that we are 100 years away from running out of oil. But, your ilk are of the consensus that we will be running out of oil in a couple of years. That's not the way it works. As with many other things in nature, the amount of oil which can be pumped out of the ground follows a bell curve. No, the current methods of pumping oil out of the ground may follow a bell curve. Next year there may be a technological advance that will allow us to pump oil out of wells that are not cost effective to continue pumping today. Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and see. One man opinion. ... There is not economic incentive to switch away from oil, there is only an emotional desire on the part of some. You're disagreeing with President Bush's speech? President Bush and I disagree on many issues. What make this issue special? The economic incentives are clear 1- avoid pollution If we reduce our use of oil it will just mean that there is more oil for China and India. 2- make profits on other sources of energy I don't understand what you are saying? An economic incentive is clear because we can make profits form other sources of energy? What sources of energy are you talking about? 3- avoid economic dislocation & disruption as oil becomes Huh, there is an economic incentive to avoid economic dislocation and disruption as oil becomes what? A very smart scientist... who made a lot of money in the oil business... named King Hubbert worked out the math of global oil supply a long time ago. Really? I thought that the supply of oil was going to run out in 30 years, Do you know exactly what day? I will want to sell short that morning, thanks. No, your side of this issue wouldn't tell us the exact day. with the clock startign to click in the late 1970's. The U.S. (which used to be an oil exporter) hit it's oil peak in the 1970s, which was accurately predicted by Dr. Hubbert in the 1940s. The global oil supply/demand situation is a bit more complex. However, it seems likely that Hubbert's math was still pretty good. We hit what oil peak in the 1970's? Pretty good at what? Has technology improved in the last 60 years? Myabe someone should do another study. Now, bonus question: do you suppose that with the ramping up of China and the other Pacific Rim economies, that world oil demand is higher or lower than Hubbert plotted from a vantage point of approx 50 years ago? What does it matter? According to you we will just run out sooner. Would you say 30 years from now is about right? Of course, you haven't liked any of the FACTS introduced into this thread so far, and you won't like these FACTS either because they prove you're wrong. Ice age. Global warming. What's next. I thought you knew? You reactionary liberals are the best at fear mongering. What is the next great potential global demise we face? One thing is for sure, the retardo-fascists will be screaming that it's all the fault of liberals. And ignoring any facts they stumble over. If you want to blame yourselfs that is ok with me. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Don White wrote: You got a 2001 Forrester? As of a couple of hours ago, nope. The Mrs. said she was noticing too many $$ going into the boat overhaul rather than into her transportation, so the Forester is only a memory and we're (she's) driving something new. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Hello? Hello?
Bert Robbins wrote: I'm here now. In spirit? Is the light on? There are already other means of producing energy. In fact, our President gave a speech earlier this year on the wisdom of expanding them. What means are there for producing energy for automobiles and trucks that don't require an extension cord? And, are those means as efficient and cost effective as oil? Sure, many. People have been running cars on methane, coal gas, and such, for decades... in fact, that's how Jacque Cousteau invented the aqualung: he adapted a pressure regulator commonly used on cars. As for cost effective... you can get methane for free. Hard to beat that. And nobody is being "forced" to do anything about oil or alternatives. It's a matter of cost & profitability. Oil has been very cheap for a long time... that is changing as oil supply declines and demand goes up. The supply is not declining, OPEC can increase the supply at will Actually, they can increase up to the limit of reserve capacity... which is decreasing every day. Are you under the impression that there will be oodles & oodles of oil, until one morning in the distant future, there will suddenly be none? I thought that was your position. You haven't been paying attention, have you? ... I believe that we are 100 years away from running out of oil. Wrong. We will probably NEVER "run out" of oil. However, we will get far enough out on the bell curve that the oil supplies will get smaller & more expensive... to the point where everything depending on oil comes to a halt. ... But, your ilk are of the consensus that we will be running out of oil in a couple of years. Who exactly is "my ilk" again? You seem to be determined to make as many wrong statements as possible. That's not the way it works. As with many other things in nature, the amount of oil which can be pumped out of the ground follows a bell curve. No, the current methods of pumping oil out of the ground may follow a bell curve. Yep. And so do all possible methods of pumping oil out of the ground. ... Next year there may be a technological advance that will allow us to pump oil out of wells that are not cost effective to continue pumping today. That may be true, but the supply will still follow a bell curve. Increasing technology shifts the curve but does not change the nature of the relationships. Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and see. One man opinion. Oh yeah, like the law of gravity is one man's opinion. President Bush and I disagree on many issues Then why did you vote for him? Are you a self-destructive fool? If we reduce our use of oil it will just mean that there is more oil for China and India. That's a great attitude... "let's waste more of it first!" How about thinking a little bit- if we move to renewable & cleaner energy sources, then we'll be in a commanding position while they are stuck with diminishing & costly oil supplies. Do you have to be a dog in the manger, or can you think constructively? 2- make profits on other sources of energy I don't understand what you are saying? An economic incentive is clear because we can make profits form other sources of energy? What sources of energy are you talking about? Many. What part of "make profits" did you not understand? Are you a Communist? 3- avoid economic dislocation & disruption as oil becomes Huh, there is an economic incentive to avoid economic dislocation and disruption as oil becomes what? Sorry, typo. But it would seem obvious, since what we are talking about is decreasing oil reserves. Really? I thought that the supply of oil was going to run out in 30 years, Do you know exactly what day? I will want to sell short that morning, thanks. No, your side of this issue wouldn't tell us the exact day. Funny thing, this issue doesn't really have sides. It's not like our President is going to save up a special oil supply just for the Bush-Cheney Cheerleaders. When we run low on oil, we *all* run low. The U.S. (which used to be an oil exporter) hit it's oil peak in the 1970s, which was accurately predicted by Dr. Hubbert in the 1940s. The global oil supply/demand situation is a bit more complex. However, it seems likely that Hubbert's math was still pretty good. We hit what oil peak in the 1970's? (talking slowly) In the 1970s, U.S. oil production peaked. That means the amount of oil pumped out of the ground increased intil that time, and afterward decreased. Pretty good at what? Has technology improved in the last 60 years? Myabe someone should do another study. Hello? Hello? Is there anything other than a dial tone at the other end? What do you think the oil companies have been doing for the past 60 years? Now, bonus question: do you suppose that with the ramping up of China and the other Pacific Rim economies, that world oil demand is higher or lower than Hubbert plotted from a vantage point of approx 50 years ago? What does it matter? According to you we will just run out sooner. Would you say 30 years from now is about right? I don't know when the oil supply will get scanty enough to be considered to have "run out." You don't really learn much, do you? Have you understood anything at all about this discussion so far? Who has said that oil will "run out"? Frankly, I don't have much faith in predicting these kinds of things... the data is too uncertain and the biggest variable is human behavior, which is a total wild card. I expect the petro-fueled economy to go on for at least another ten years, but not for fifty. In ten years, the price for a barrel of crude oil might be $300, it might be $30,000. But, considering that there is definitely a finite amount of oil in the ground, we *will* get to a point where it is too scarce & expensive to fuel our civilization. Therefor, we either need a different source of energy or we just give up on civilization. Take your pick. You reactionary liberals are the best at fear mongering. I'm a "reactionary liberal" now? Gee, last week I was a moonbat. Are you neo-cons good at anything other than anme-calling? DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Bert Robbins" wrote
I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Doug Kanter wrote: Impossible. I don't believe it. Why is it impossible? He's a "Principal Development Engineer" in the same way that the garbage collector is a "Sanitation Engineer." Everybody's an engineer if they want to claim the title, but that doesn't mean they can actually drive a train. DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Doug Kanter wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"DSK" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Doug Kanter wrote: Impossible. I don't believe it. Why is it impossible? He's a "Principal Development Engineer" in the same way that the garbage collector is a "Sanitation Engineer." Everybody's an engineer if they want to claim the title, but that doesn't mean they can actually drive a train. DSK I don't believe it could be involved in any way with anything requiring even the simplest logic. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:25:17 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote:
Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and see. One man opinion. You just don't get it. The Hubbert Curve is not an opinion, it is science. US continental production did peak in 1971-72. That is a fact. Hubbert predicted it would peak between 1965-1970. He also predicted world production would peak in 2000. As it takes several years for a true peak to become apparent, it is not now known if he was accurate, but there are many that believe the peak was in 2004. Whenever the true peak occurs know that, at that time, 1/2 the world's oil supplies will be gone. Also know that the world will never run out of oil, it will run out of economically obtainable oil, and I don't mean expensive. If it takes more oil to find, transport, and process, than is recovered, the field is abandoned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"thunder" wrote in message ... On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:25:17 -0500, Bert Robbins wrote: Look it up for yourself, don't listen to me. Google "Hubbert Peak" and see. One man opinion. You just don't get it. The Hubbert Curve is not an opinion, it is science. US continental production did peak in 1971-72. That is a fact. Hubbert predicted it would peak between 1965-1970. He also predicted world production would peak in 2000. As it takes several years for a true peak to become apparent, it is not now known if he was accurate, but there are many that believe the peak was in 2004. Whenever the true peak occurs know that, at that time, 1/2 the world's oil supplies will be gone. Also know that the world will never run out of oil, it will run out of economically obtainable oil, and I don't mean expensive. If it takes more oil to find, transport, and process, than is recovered, the field is abandoned. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbert_peak You're preaching to the same type of audience who also has severe problems understanding Supreme Court transcripts, in which the justices & lawyers use "straw man" arguments (a sin here, but a universal tool for legal scholars) to get to the bottom of a legal problem. It makes the audience's brains hurt. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Doug's just a total social reject, an intellectual cesspool and a bitter,
jealous fool. And this is only now becoming obvious? |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Bill Kearney" wrote in message ... Doug's just a total social reject, an intellectual cesspool and a bitter, jealous fool. And this is only now becoming obvious? Have you read more than one message in this thread? |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:56:33 -0500, thunder wrote: Also know that the world will never run out of oil, it will run out of economically obtainable oil, and I don't mean expensive. If it takes more oil to find, transport, and process, than is recovered, the field is abandoned. I've seen stuff all over the place in terms of opinions about this. Supposedly there is enough oil off the coast of New Jersey to supply the world for...there is enough il off the est and west coast of Florida - yada, yada, yada... Then you have fields discovered like the recent one off the Mexican coast which, as I understand it, is huge - like Middle East huge. I also read something about older fields regenerating which surprised almost everybody. At this point, I don't think anybody truly knows what is or isn't true about oil. The hell with the supply. There's a better reason not to burn more of it than is necessary: Air quality. And, I'm not talking about global warming - just air quality. Of course, the neanderthal response is "Ug ug - issue no exist", even though it does. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Also know that the world will never run out of oil, it will run out of
economically obtainable oil, and I don't mean expensive. If it takes more oil to find, transport, and process, than is recovered, the field is abandoned. And this holds true even if you substitute other energy forms for petro-fuels... if it takes more energy to pump & refine & distribute the oil than the oil itself represents, then it's a losing proposition. This has been the claim made against agri-fuels, but I don't know enough myself about the numbers on that. Considering the cost and availability of bio-diesel (which we plan to switch to as soon as we can get it), it seems likely that the naysayers didn't get the math right on this. "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote I've seen stuff all over the place in terms of opinions about this. Supposedly there is enough oil off the coast of New Jersey to supply the world for...there is enough il off the est and west coast of Florida - yada, yada, yada... Then you have fields discovered like the recent one off the Mexican coast which, as I understand it, is huge - like Middle East huge. I also read something about older fields regenerating which surprised almost everybody. And as you say, it's a lot of blah-blah and yada-yada... mostly driven by wishful thinking. My answer to Bert still stands: what do you think the oil companies have been doing for the past 85 years? Standing around twiddling their thumbs, or looking for & evaluating new oil fields? At this point, I don't think anybody truly knows what is or isn't true about oil. And so, of course you have every excuse to proclaim that we have pleny of oil forever & ever. Funny thing though, if any serious scientist had the evidence to revise King Hubbert's figures, he'd be a big deal in the oil world. Nobody has. What do you think that means? Doug Kanter wrote: The hell with the supply. There's a better reason not to burn more of it than is necessary: Air quality. And, I'm not talking about global warming - just air quality. Of course, the neanderthal response is "Ug ug - issue no exist", even though it does. Hey, they're right. There's still plenty of air left to pollute. Just because lung cancer & emphysema among non-smokers is at record highs, that doesn't mean a thing! Remember, people on the Titanic kept insisting that the ship was unsinkable, right up until the cold ocean water rose up past their nostrils. Question is, do you want your leadership to make strategic decisions which profoundly affect the future of our country based on ignorant wishful thinking, or on the best facts available? DSK |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
... Consider the wave generation plant an Aussie firm wanted to put at Point Judith. ????? Recreational thing? What the hell are you supposed to do when everybody has a better idea or some complaint? Forgetting about scenery for the moment, I'd raise the penalties for oil platform screwups to include mandatory prison time for upper management, and fines set as a percentage of net profits, rather than flat numbers. Most of those platforms run pretty cleanly, and even organizations like Sierra Club admit as much. If they don't, it's one of two things: Outrageous natural disasters, or sloppiness. You can't fault the operators for the former, but for the latter, why not bring them to their knees? |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
I'm all for exploring and opening up new fields with new technology - available now for such as deep water and such. I'm also not against drilling off Martha's Vineyard either, but it would ruin the view so let's not do that huh? Hey, let the price of gasoline get up around ten bucks a gallon, and electric bills into solid five figures, and people will be less concerned about the view. Funny thing, that will drive up the desirability... and thus the price... of places that still have some unspoiled nature. It's like a merry-go-round. I'm all for alternative energy, but the battles you have to fight to get anything done are ridiculous. In my own personal experience, I had to give up on putting a wind generator in my own backyard because the neighbors raised a ruckus - mostly because of my wife's position in town, I never really pursued it beyond attempting to get a permit. Well, maybe you should invest a little time & effort in getting along with your neighbors. Around here you seem to invest none at all in either learning about nor understanding anybody else's point of view; do you act significantly different at home? Consider the wave generation plant an Aussie firm wanted to put at Point Judith. That one never even got beyond the planning stages because every enviro nut in the universe had a complaint from sucking fish into the turbine blades to the main town committee saying it was ugly. What the hell are you supposed to do when everybody has a better idea or some complaint? Give up, I guess. Another point to consider is that a large number of the objections may seem to come from the left wing whackos, but is in fact funded & directed by the people who have big bucks at stake... the entrenched energy companies. For example, want to take any guesses as to who profited from Vice President Cheney's secret energy policy 2001 ~ 2005? Want to guess who gets the lion's share of gov't hand-outs? We already can make a good guess how progressive & forward-looking those policies have been, since the most obvious facet of that policy is to fight big expensive wars for cheap oil. The nation's leaders have been looking backwards, and mostly investing in convincing as many people as they can that "alternative energy" is for weirdos. Until the last couple of months, that is. Suddenly they have stolen Al Gore's energy playbook (although they still scream that Democrats have no ideas). At this point, I don't think anybody truly knows what is or isn't true about oil. And so, of course you have every excuse to proclaim that we have pleny of oil forever & ever. I don't think anybody has actually said that. Perhaps not in so many words. Funny thing though, if any serious scientist had the evidence to revise King Hubbert's figures, he'd be a big deal in the oil world. Nobody has. What do you think that means? Dunno- but I can say that almost everybody had a dog in this hunt from the enviros to the drillers to the people who consume and everybody is ****ing on everybody else's shoes. We aren't going to get anywhere until somebody stands up and say enough rather than pander to get elected again - and again - and again... Agreed. My beef with you personally is that you have come down solidly on the side of the worst panderers, again and again... and directed a lot of personal insults my way for attempting to put forth some facts. But let's not dwell on the past. If I could find an alternative to fuel my diesel with, I would - in a heartbeat. I know farmer's here in town who would do it in a heartbeat if they could obtain the bio or soy based diesel. There are guys out there making bio-diesel. Just gotta find one in your area... One of the things I've noticed about bio-diesel generators currently in place is that they seem to rely heavily on using cooking oil from fast food places... not that I'm against that, but if the raw material is free and the fuel generated still costs more than petro-diesel, what will be the market price of the stuff? Consider this - we're supposedly switching over to ethanol blend rather than MTBE because of some dubious science about MTBE (think saccharin testing) - it's supposed to be a boon to our farmers and our agriculture system - burn corn right? Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil. Or any place that grows a grain that can be turned into ethanol. Kansas? Iowa? My side yard? Brazil is a great example of mass use of alternative fueled vehicles though. Bonus points to you for knowing about it. Until somebody does, we're going to continued to get high fuel prices and do nothing about reducing out dependence on crude oil Well, part of the problem is there is no replacement on the horizon that is cost competitive with petro-fuels... and probably won't be until that price goes up a lot more (I'm guessing double). OTOH as technology advances, we can make it cheaper so the price of the alternatives go down. Ditto for economies of scale, once large capacity plants are up & running the costs will drop even more. 2 more issues to think about- Only fuel on the horizon that offers anywhere near the same bang for the buck... or per pound... is hydrogen. All other alternatives fuels are bulky & weak; and most of them have handling issues as well (although those can be solved with a combination of technology & familiarity). Hydrogen has been known for centuries, since long before gasoline as a matter of fact. Hydrogen is difficult to handle and can be dangerous, and if it were all that promising a fuel, we probably would have been using it before we started up with gasoline. So we can expect fuels of the future to be more troublesome & aggravating & time consuming than we are accustomed to with gasoline. Next, where are we going to get plastic from, once the cost of oil goes sky high? IMHO future generations are going to think we were incredibly stupid to burn up all that raw petroleum which could have been turned into space-age material goods, instead of gunking up the air so we can drive SUVs to the mall. They will probably be mining our landfills for sources of PVC & other plastics. As you can see, I have a lot to say on this subject, I don't think we (the U.S.A.) are taking it anywhere near seriously enough. Regards Doug King |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:27:44 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote: Where does the ethanol come from? Brazil. So some faceless EPA type convinced somebody to use ethanol, the politicans bought into it because it looks good to farmers and we buy it from Brazil. It's actually worse than that. Supposedly the net energy cost of producing ethanol is greater than the energy delivered in combustion, taking into account fertilizer production, planting, harvesting, distribution, etc. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : I guess that's why every single one of your assertions about the oil/energy situation has been proven wrong Fred Dehl wrote: Not one statement I've made in this thread has been false. Pretty much all your statements are not only false but offensively so. For example, you posted: "people who don't enjoy the premium of driving a less-efficient vehicle are stupid." ****ing liar. Never said that, and to put it in quotes makes it even more bull****. You can go crawl back up your mamma's scab-infected ****, ****sucker. I'm ****ing through with you. Now there's a happy guy. |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:46:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. Consider the wave generation plant an Aussie firm wanted to put at Point Judith. ????? Recreational thing? Partly which surprised me. There's another purpose? I'll guess: Circulate water whose natural flow has been blocked by a jetty, thereby causing stagnation. Do I win anything? :) |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:27:35 -0500, DSK wrote:
"Bert Robbins" wrote I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Doug Kanter wrote: Impossible. I don't believe it. Why is it impossible? He's a "Principal Development Engineer" in the same way that the garbage collector is a "Sanitation Engineer." Everybody's an engineer if they want to claim the title, but that doesn't mean they can actually drive a train. DSK Just for all you engineers: Bubba and Junior were standing at the base of a flagpole, looking up. A blond lady walked by and asked what they were doing. "We're supposed to find the height of the flagpole," said Bubba, "but we don't have a ladder." The woman took a wrench from her purse, loosened a few bolts, and laid the pole down. Then she took a tape measure from her pocket, took a measurement & announced, "Eighteen feet, six inches," and walked away. Junior shook his head and laughed. "Ain't that just like a dumb blond? We ask for the height, and she gives us the length!" -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers
wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices ... what do you do??
This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even
sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. Agreed. On the internet, everybody is rich & good-looking. On the internet, almost everybody is an engineer, including me (and yes, I have in fact driven a train but it's not my day job). JohnH wrote: I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. -- OK, you're not an engineer. But you probably could be... wanna do some consulting? ;) DSK |
Fuel prices ... what do you do??
"DSK" wrote in message
... This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. Agreed. On the internet, everybody is rich & good-looking. On the internet, almost everybody is an engineer, including me (and yes, I have in fact driven a train but it's not my day job). You know all those trains you see around? I built them. |
Fuel prices ... what do you do??
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:30:15 -0500, DSK wrote:
This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. Agreed. On the internet, everybody is rich & good-looking. On the internet, almost everybody is an engineer, including me (and yes, I have in fact driven a train but it's not my day job). JohnH wrote: I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. -- OK, you're not an engineer. But you probably could be... wanna do some consulting? ;) DSK I was a 'Combat Engineer' in the Army. Does that count for anything? I know how to lay a minefield! I really love blowing up things - bridges, buildings, whatever, as long as there's plenty of C4 to do it with. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:32:59 GMT, Shortwave Sportfishing
wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:25:02 -0500, JohnH wrote: On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. On the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. :) Woof. That reminds me, I've gotta go get some of the matted hair off the bearded collie. Anyone want a bearded collie? They're about as stupid a dog as you could ever hope to find! -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** |
Fuel prices ... what do you do??
JohnH wrote:
I was a 'Combat Engineer' in the Army. Does that count for anything? I know how to lay a minefield! I really love blowing up things - bridges, buildings, whatever, as long as there's plenty of C4 to do it with. -- Great! I think I'm gonna get a T-shirt printed up with the slogan: "On the Internet, everybody is rich & good-looking. "On the Internet, everybody is an engineer." I'd like to have a T-shirt with this cartoon but it's copyrighted. http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.html Regards Doug King |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:12:42 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:46:54 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message m... Consider the wave generation plant an Aussie firm wanted to put at Point Judith. ????? Recreational thing? Partly which surprised me. There's another purpose? I'll guess: Circulate water whose natural flow has been blocked by a jetty, thereby causing stagnation. Do I win anything? :) YOU LOSE!!! Actually the system was ridiculously simple. http://www.energetech.com.au/ Read the technology section. Cool! |
Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
JohnH wrote:
On Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:43:12 -0500, Reggie Smithers wrote: Doug Kanter wrote: "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Bert Robbins" wrote in message ... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... "Fred Dehl" wrote in message ... DSK wrote in : Normally, to people like Fred D who are obsessivley compelled to post hateful pseudo-political spew here, I'd say "get a boat." Boats are far worse gas guzzlers than Hummers. That's why I asked you what kind of work you do. What do you do? Put up or shut up. I'm an inventory analyst for a grocery wholesaler. Your turn. I am a Principal Development Engineer for a large hardware and software vendor. Impossible. I don't believe it. Doug, This is the reason it is silly to ask "what does someone do" or even sillier to respond to questions concerning this or any other personal info. Normally the response only fuels the flames of personal disagreements and does nothing to support one's position on an issue. I'll bet few people lie about teaching math. -- 'Til next time, John H ****************************************** ***** Have a Spectacular Day! ***** ****************************************** I don't believe you, prove it. ;) -- Reggie "That's my story and I am sticking to it." |
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