Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

Have you ever known anyone for whom an SUV seemed all wrong, and asked
them why they bought one? I have. Their wants and desires are simple,
usually: They want a boxy vehicle that's higher off the ground because
they feel it's safer in collisions. It probably is. And, they want
more luggage space. Not seating. Luggage space. (Uncovered luggage is
actually dangerous, but never mind that for the moment.

No, I haven't asked any vehicle owner that wasn't a family member or
close personoal friend why they own a particular vehicle.

Make a presumption as to whether or not a vehicle is appropriate to
someone based upon seeing them once is ridiculous and idiotic.

These people do not fantasize about driving over rocks and through
streams, like you see in the commercials. They would not know the
difference between a 4WD 8-cylinder SUV and a 2WD 6 cylinder model.
They just want their boxy up-off-the-ground car. They can have that
wish, in a vehicle that uses less fuel.

Your powers of calirvoiance are amazing. The State Departmet, CIA and
DOD might be interested in hiring you.

Either you weren't alive in the 1970s, or you never look out the window
of your car. There are vastly more SUVs around now than 30+ years ago.
There is absolutely NO WAY all these new owners are the type who
actually use the mechanical capabilities of those vehicles. And, don't
blurt out stuff like "Oh yeah? Well, in places like Big Gulch, Colorado,
elevation 3000 feet, there were always lots of SUVs 'cause it snows like
crazy there, and lots of people live on unpaved roads". Of course.
That's where SUVs belong, as opposed to making up 50% of the vehicles in
a shopping mall in Cherry Hill, New Jersey.

I was around in the '70's. There are vastly fewer station wagons now than
there were SUV's. There are vastly more fuel efficient vehicles now than
in the '70's. This is all due to choice by the buyers and the
manufacturers providing those choices.

People should have a choice. Why don't you argue that choice is bad?


I'm not arguing that choices should be taken away. You keep saying this.
So, let's try another way. According to Ford, the company trying to
develop a much more efficient SUV, but with the same physical size &
comfort features of their current ones. They will still continue to sell
the more powerful ones, as well. This information came from a Ford
spokesperson. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS STATEMENT IS TRUE?

Whether the statement is true or false is irrelevant.

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to take
away their freedom by removing choices?

I'm describing how a company is developing a NEW set of choices, not
taking away an existing choice. How do you interpret that as a desire on
my part to limit choices?

But, the real choice is to make the consumer pay more or less. The hybrid is
the more costly of the two choices. And, the government will try to remove
the less costly choice.

Does your family appreciate you making all of their daily decisions for
them. Will your children live with your for the rest of their lives?

You've tried this "family" stunt before, when you're about to run out of
ideas and you're being backed into an alley. Drop it.

Why? You are a control freak at a minimum. If someone disagrees with you
then you do anything and everything to try and coerce them into your way of
thinking. You have stated many times that you will not allow your children
to make choices on their own if they disagree with what your want them to
do. This is telling of your character and your tactics in a debate or
discussion.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny incremental
step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental step".
It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your opinion?

Until they started drilling in the Arabian Pennisula the didn't think there
was any oil.


And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product, not my
opinion of certain vehicles.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/

Ford Escape $19,995 (Base price)

Ford Escape Hybrid $27,515 (Base price)

That is a $7,520 dollar difference which translates into 3,008 gallons of
gas at the average price in the DC area today of $2.50 per gallon. At 25
MPG that would mean that I could drive my non-Hybrid Escape 75,000 miles
before I reach the acquisition cost of the Escape Hybrid.

You tell me which one you would buy?

seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a gas
one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With a
projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed this
vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less desirable to
acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you if you are trading
something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we don't take those in trade
what are you going to do?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

You have stated many times that you will not allow your children to make
choices on their own if they disagree with what your want them to do. This
is telling of your character and your tactics in a debate or discussion.

Please search at Google and show me where I've "stated many times".

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

I'm not arguing that choices should be taken away. You keep saying this.
So, let's try another way. According to Ford, the company trying to
develop a much more efficient SUV, but with the same physical size &
comfort features of their current ones. They will still continue to sell
the more powerful ones, as well. This information came from a Ford
spokesperson. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS STATEMENT IS TRUE?

Whether the statement is true or false is irrelevant.

More drivel. Not surprising.



Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to
take away their freedom by removing choices?

I'm describing how a company is developing a NEW set of choices, not
taking away an existing choice. How do you interpret that as a desire on
my part to limit choices?

But, the real choice is to make the consumer pay more or less. The hybrid
is the more costly of the two choices. And, the government will try to
remove the less costly choice.

Sorry. I didn't know you were involved with formulating pricing for Ford
products. Is that where you work? Or, do you have other information about
prices for products they haven't begun selling yet?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny incremental
step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental step".
It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your opinion?

Until they started drilling in the Arabian Pennisula the didn't think
there was any oil.


And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product, not
my opinion of certain vehicles.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/

Ford Escape $19,995 (Base price)

Ford Escape Hybrid $27,515 (Base price)

That is a $7,520 dollar difference which translates into 3,008 gallons of
gas at the average price in the DC area today of $2.50 per gallon. At 25
MPG that would mean that I could drive my non-Hybrid Escape 75,000 miles
before I reach the acquisition cost of the Escape Hybrid.

You tell me which one you would buy?

seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas
one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With a
projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed this
vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less desirable to
acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you if you are trading
something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we don't take those in trade
what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless of
how it was powered.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:34:04 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

You have stated many times that you will not allow your children to make
choices on their own if they disagree with what your want them to do.
This
is telling of your character and your tactics in a debate or discussion.

Please search at Google and show me where I've "stated many times".

Bassy? Is that you? :)

Bass-ish?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in, not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles. They're
different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a competent dealer
finds out you never changed the timing belt on a trade-in that needed it,
the numbers will be different. It's a non-issue.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny incremental
step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental step".
It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your opinion?

Until they started drilling in the Arabian Pennisula the didn't think
there was any oil.


And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product, not
my opinion of certain vehicles.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/

Ford Escape $19,995 (Base price)

Ford Escape Hybrid $27,515 (Base price)

That is a $7,520 dollar difference which translates into 3,008 gallons of
gas at the average price in the DC area today of $2.50 per gallon. At 25
MPG that would mean that I could drive my non-Hybrid Escape 75,000 miles
before I reach the acquisition cost of the Escape Hybrid.

You tell me which one you would buy?

seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas
one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With a
projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed this
vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less desirable to
acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you if you are trading
something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we don't take those in
trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless of
how it was powered.

What do they say in tennis? Game, set and match.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in, not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles. They're
different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a competent dealer
finds out you never changed the timing belt on a trade-in that needed it,
the numbers will be different. It's a non-issue.

I can change a timing belt for a couple of hundred dollars vs. several
thousands of dollars for a hybrid battery pack.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in, not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles. They're
different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a competent dealer
finds out you never changed the timing belt on a trade-in that needed it,
the numbers will be different. It's a non-issue.

I can change a timing belt for a couple of hundred dollars vs. several
thousands of dollars for a hybrid battery pack.



Do you mean doing the timing belt job yourself?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny
incremental
step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental step".
It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your
opinion?

Until they started drilling in the Arabian Pennisula the didn't think
there was any oil.


And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product, not
my opinion of certain vehicles.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/

Ford Escape $19,995 (Base price)

Ford Escape Hybrid $27,515 (Base price)

That is a $7,520 dollar difference which translates into 3,008 gallons
of gas at the average price in the DC area today of $2.50 per gallon.
At 25 MPG that would mean that I could drive my non-Hybrid Escape 75,000
miles before I reach the acquisition cost of the Escape Hybrid.

You tell me which one you would buy?

seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas
one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With a
projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed this
vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less desirable to
acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you if you are
trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we don't take
those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless of
how it was powered.

What do they say in tennis? Game, set and match.


Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are loaded
with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases, but because
many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong car. You respond by
explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's called a "feint".

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in, not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles. They're
different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a competent dealer
finds out you never changed the timing belt on a trade-in that needed
it, the numbers will be different. It's a non-issue.

I can change a timing belt for a couple of hundred dollars vs. several
thousands of dollars for a hybrid battery pack.



Do you mean doing the timing belt job yourself?

Are we now going to argue about the cost of changing timimg belts now?

I have to go to work and I don't like to beat a man when he is down. Can we
pick this up when I get home say around 7:30 PM today?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in, not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles. They're
different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a competent dealer
finds out you never changed the timing belt on a trade-in that needed
it, the numbers will be different. It's a non-issue.

I can change a timing belt for a couple of hundred dollars vs. several
thousands of dollars for a hybrid battery pack.



Do you mean doing the timing belt job yourself?

Are we now going to argue about the cost of changing timimg belts now?

Why not? The way you add things to this discussion, we may as well throw in
something about common diseases of parakeets.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Harry Krause wrote:
Fred Dehl wrote:

Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.


- - -

And with that statement, we now know everything we need to know about
"Fred Dehl."



As if there was ever any doubt!

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Fred Dehl wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny
incremental step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental
step". It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your
opinion?




And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product,
not my opinion of certain vehicles.



seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.


Bert showed what an idiotic liar you are. I'll invoke the mercy rule and
not pile on.

Childish, petty name calling certainly does nothing for YOUR
credibility.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman

He's a real paranoid sort......

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to
take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live
with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman

He's a real paranoid sort......


.....and he works from a one-page script.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny
incremental
step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental
step".
It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your
opinion?

Until they started drilling in the Arabian Pennisula the didn't think
there was any oil.


And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product,
not my opinion of certain vehicles.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/

Ford Escape $19,995 (Base price)

Ford Escape Hybrid $27,515 (Base price)

That is a $7,520 dollar difference which translates into 3,008 gallons
of gas at the average price in the DC area today of $2.50 per gallon.
At 25 MPG that would mean that I could drive my non-Hybrid Escape
75,000 miles before I reach the acquisition cost of the Escape Hybrid.

You tell me which one you would buy?

seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas
one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With a
projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed this
vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less desirable to
acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you if you are
trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we don't take
those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless
of how it was powered.

What do they say in tennis? Game, set and match.


Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases,
but because many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong car.
You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's called
a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year old
SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number and
generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not based
upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that you said
"Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless of
how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the factthat you were
beaten on your own terms.

Let's do it again.

Honda Civic Sedan DX $14,760 (Base model)

Honda Civic Sedan Hybrid $22,150 (Base model)

Well what do you know? There is a $7,390 difference in price which is about
the same difference between the Ford Escape and the Ford Escape Hybrid. The
difference in price between the Civic and Civic Hybrid in gallons of
gasoline, under the same terms above, is 2,956. Let's assume that the Civic
gets 32 miles per gallon. I will be able to drive my non-Hybrid Civic 94,500
miles before reaching the acquisition cost of the Civic Hybrid. And, the
batteries will still have to be replaced at about 100,000 miles incurring a
cost of $5,000 (batteries are batteries) and you have made the Civic Hybrid
a bad choice as a used care and a new car.

Do we need to go through the figures for the Toyota Prius?

Hybrid vehicles are not cost effective. Hybrid vehicles pose dangers to
emergency personnel.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles.
With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have
removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in,
not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles. They're
different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a competent
dealer finds out you never changed the timing belt on a trade-in that
needed it, the numbers will be different. It's a non-issue.

I can change a timing belt for a couple of hundred dollars vs. several
thousands of dollars for a hybrid battery pack.



Do you mean doing the timing belt job yourself?

Are we now going to argue about the cost of changing timimg belts now?

Why not? The way you add things to this discussion, we may as well throw
in something about common diseases of parakeets.

You keep harping about what people shoud and should not do but, when push
comes to shove you run away screaming that people don't play by your rules.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

Fred Dehl wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny
incremental step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental
step". It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your
opinion?




And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product,
not my opinion of certain vehicles.



seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.


Bert showed what an idiotic liar you are. I'll invoke the mercy rule and
not pile on.

Childish, petty name calling certainly does nothing for YOUR
credibility.

And, Kevin, you credibility is improved in what manner by jumping in and
whining?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

wrote in message
ups.com...
Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live
with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman,

Stick around and you will see how Dougie bends and twists his words to fit
the outcome he desires.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to
take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate
you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live
with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman

He's a real paranoid sort......


....and he works from a one-page script.

That script is how to kick Doug butt with a keyboard.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Bert Robbins wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
m...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
news:Hq6dnWfp66gXgrrZnZ2dnUVZ_tWdnZ2d@comcast. com...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
.. .

"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:


Are you the same Fred Dehl who suggested that ANWR, a tiny
incremental
step, would be better than nothing?

You're the only one who's suggested ANWR is a "tiny incremental
step".
It's far more than that.

Use numbers. What percentage is, or is not incremental, in your
opinion?

Until they started drilling in the Arabian Pennisula the didn't think
there was any oil.


And yes, one new vehicle could make a difference. Ford & GM didn't
take the idea of mini-vans

Mini-vans are loathed by your ilk.

Not relevant to this discussion. This is about marketing a product,
not my opinion of certain vehicles.

http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/

Ford Escape $19,995 (Base price)

Ford Escape Hybrid $27,515 (Base price)

That is a $7,520 dollar difference which translates into 3,008 gallons
of gas at the average price in the DC area today of $2.50 per gallon.
At 25 MPG that would mean that I could drive my non-Hybrid Escape
75,000 miles before I reach the acquisition cost of the Escape Hybrid.

You tell me which one you would buy?


seriously until Chrysler started selling
them like hotcakes. One highly efficient SUV that's successful will
lead the competition into the same market.

The cost of operating these SUVs is little different from operating a
gas
one.

I'll need a link for your source of that information. Good luck. The
vehicles don't exist yet.

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles. With a
projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have removed this
vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less desirable to
acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks you if you are
trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says we don't take
those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless
of how it was powered.

What do they say in tennis? Game, set and match.


Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases,
but because many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong car.
You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's called
a "feint".


You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year old
SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number and
generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not based
upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that you said
"Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle, regardless of
how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the factthat you were
beaten on your own terms.

Let's do it again.

Honda Civic Sedan DX $14,760 (Base model)

Honda Civic Sedan Hybrid $22,150 (Base model)

Well what do you know? There is a $7,390 difference in price which is about
the same difference between the Ford Escape and the Ford Escape Hybrid. The
difference in price between the Civic and Civic Hybrid in gallons of
gasoline, under the same terms above, is 2,956. Let's assume that the Civic
gets 32 miles per gallon. I will be able to drive my non-Hybrid Civic 94,500
miles before reaching the acquisition cost of the Civic Hybrid. And, the
batteries will still have to be replaced at about 100,000 miles incurring a
cost of $5,000 (batteries are batteries) and you have made the Civic Hybrid
a bad choice as a used care and a new car.

Do we need to go through the figures for the Toyota Prius?

Hybrid vehicles are not cost effective. Hybrid vehicles pose dangers to
emergency personnel.




You have to look at those hybrid vehicles as a first step.
You'd better hope the technology improves or your kids will be riding
bicycles.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to
take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate
you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live
with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman

He's a real paranoid sort......


....and he works from a one-page script.

That script is how to kick Doug butt with a keyboard.



Impartial observers seem to feel you're not doing much of a job of that.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
Bert Robbins wrote:

Why do you want to control the public's behavior? Why do you want to
take
away their freedom by removing choices? Does your family appreciate you
making all of their daily decisions for them. Will your children live
with
your for the rest of their lives?

Pardon a lurker for jumping in, Bert, it sounds to me like you are
reading this thread from another dimension, I don't believe Doug was
saying anything like what you seem to be saying he said! He wasn't
talking at all about controlling the public's behavior, taking away
freedom or removing choices.

richforman,

Stick around and you will see how Dougie bends and twists his words to fit
the outcome he desires.



You didn't address what the man said to you.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Childish, petty name calling certainly does nothing for YOUR
credibility.

And, Kevin, you credibility is improved in what manner by jumping in and
whining?


You asked him to jump in.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases,
but because many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong car.
You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's called
a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year old
SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number and
generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that
you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the
factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid SUV.



Let's do it again.

Honda Civic Sedan DX $14,760 (Base model)

Honda Civic Sedan Hybrid $22,150 (Base model)

Well what do you know? There is a $7,390 difference in price which is
about the same difference between the Ford Escape and the Ford Escape
Hybrid. The difference in price between the Civic and Civic Hybrid in
gallons of gasoline, under the same terms above, is 2,956. Let's assume
that the Civic gets 32 miles per gallon. I will be able to drive my
non-Hybrid Civic 94,500 miles before reaching the acquisition cost of the
Civic Hybrid. And, the batteries will still have to be replaced at about
100,000 miles incurring a cost of $5,000 (batteries are batteries) and you
have made the Civic Hybrid a bad choice as a used care and a new car.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership. Is
that possible?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2006 09:23:29 -0800, wrote:

Paid $2.91 at a normally competitive filling station for unleaded 92
octane yesterday.

Looks like a repeat of the 2005 fuel pricing may be in store. Those
*******s. But I guess you can't blame them, since most of the increase
last year went straight to the Record Profit Bottom Line of the big oil
companies and their stock prices have now been adjusted to take those
profits into account. Failure to reproduce the same type of earnings
this year would have a negative impact on future stock values, and we
certainly couldn't have that, could we?

What are you burning that high octane stuff in? I know Acura's require it,
but most cars don't.

Yesterday, in Holland, the price was almost $6 per gallon. Guess we
shouldn't bitch too much.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"Fred Dehl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote in
:

The battery life of an Hybrid is estimated to be 100,000 miles.
With
a projected cost of $5,000 to replace the batteries you have
removed
this vehicle form the used vehicle market making them even less
desirable to acquire in the first place. When the salesman asks
you
if you are trading something in and you say a Hybrid and he says
we
don't take those in trade what are you going to do?

Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless
of how it was powered.

Moron, ANY Hybrid is going to have the same situation on trade-in,
not
just SUVs. Now answer the ****ing question, dickwash.

The numbers will be different for trade-ins on those vehicles.
They're different for a Peterbilt than for a Chevy sedan. If a
competent dealer finds out you never changed the timing belt on a
trade-in that needed it, the numbers will be different. It's a
non-issue.

I can change a timing belt for a couple of hundred dollars vs. several
thousands of dollars for a hybrid battery pack.



Do you mean doing the timing belt job yourself?

Are we now going to argue about the cost of changing timimg belts now?

Why not? The way you add things to this discussion, we may as well throw
in something about common diseases of parakeets.

You keep harping about what people shoud and should not do but, when push
comes to shove you run away screaming that people don't play by your
rules.



Really? Prove it.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 23 Mar 2006 09:23:29 -0800, wrote:

Paid $2.91 at a normally competitive filling station for unleaded 92
octane yesterday.

Looks like a repeat of the 2005 fuel pricing may be in store. Those
*******s. But I guess you can't blame them, since most of the increase
last year went straight to the Record Profit Bottom Line of the big oil
companies and their stock prices have now been adjusted to take those
profits into account. Failure to reproduce the same type of earnings
this year would have a negative impact on future stock values, and we
certainly couldn't have that, could we?

What are you burning that high octane stuff in? I know Acura's require it,
but most cars don't.

Yesterday, in Holland, the price was almost $6 per gallon. Guess we
shouldn't bitch too much.

Why John? Why the hell should we feel good about our gas prices running up
just because the price of gas is higher somewhere else. I've never
understood that argument.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases,
but because many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong car.
You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's
called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number
and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that
you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the
factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other vehicles.
So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it didn't matter
because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know how childish that
sounds?


Let's do it again.

Honda Civic Sedan DX $14,760 (Base model)

Honda Civic Sedan Hybrid $22,150 (Base model)

Well what do you know? There is a $7,390 difference in price which is
about the same difference between the Ford Escape and the Ford Escape
Hybrid. The difference in price between the Civic and Civic Hybrid in
gallons of gasoline, under the same terms above, is 2,956. Let's assume
that the Civic gets 32 miles per gallon. I will be able to drive my
non-Hybrid Civic 94,500 miles before reaching the acquisition cost of the
Civic Hybrid. And, the batteries will still have to be replaced at about
100,000 miles incurring a cost of $5,000 (batteries are batteries) and
you have made the Civic Hybrid a bad choice as a used care and a new car.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership. Is
that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:24:41 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

Why John? Why the hell should we feel good about our gas prices running
up
just because the price of gas is higher somewhere else. I've never
understood that argument.

1 - Because we have lagged behind the real price of oil for many years
- too many. That's why there is, on average, .47¢ of tax built into a
gallon of gas - it was cheap enough to get away with it.

Do you really believe that the oil countries would be selling gasoline at a
loss?

Do you really believe that the government would forgo tax revenue on
gasoline?

2 - While not directly related to your question, oil companies finally
woke up to the fact that too much of something is a bad thing in terms
of supply and demand factors.

The oil companies have a balancing act, they need to keep gasoline
affordable to the masses, otherwise, people will find other alternatives.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended leases,
but because many people woke up and figured out they were the wrong
car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your vehicle. It's
called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number
and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that
you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the
factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other vehicles.
So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it didn't
matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know how
childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your vehicle,
which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.




Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership. Is
that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues are
such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling well? Are
the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:24:41 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On 23 Mar 2006 09:23:29 -0800, wrote:

Paid $2.91 at a normally competitive filling station for unleaded 92
octane yesterday.

Looks like a repeat of the 2005 fuel pricing may be in store. Those
*******s. But I guess you can't blame them, since most of the increase
last year went straight to the Record Profit Bottom Line of the big oil
companies and their stock prices have now been adjusted to take those
profits into account. Failure to reproduce the same type of earnings
this year would have a negative impact on future stock values, and we
certainly couldn't have that, could we?

What are you burning that high octane stuff in? I know Acura's require it,
but most cars don't.

Yesterday, in Holland, the price was almost $6 per gallon. Guess we
shouldn't bitch too much.

Why John? Why the hell should we feel good about our gas prices running up
just because the price of gas is higher somewhere else. I've never
understood that argument.


"Feel good?" Did I say that somewhere?

Have you never felt a little self-satisfied when you got a little better
deal than the next guy?

There are people here who wish to have flame wars. I'm not one of them.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:01:29 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:24:41 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

Why John? Why the hell should we feel good about our gas prices running
up
just because the price of gas is higher somewhere else. I've never
understood that argument.

1 - Because we have lagged behind the real price of oil for many years
- too many. That's why there is, on average, .47¢ of tax built into a
gallon of gas - it was cheap enough to get away with it.

Do you really believe that the oil countries would be selling gasoline at a
loss?

Do you really believe that the government would forgo tax revenue on
gasoline?

2 - While not directly related to your question, oil companies finally
woke up to the fact that too much of something is a bad thing in terms
of supply and demand factors.

The oil companies have a balancing act, they need to keep gasoline
affordable to the masses, otherwise, people will find other alternatives.


From where come your questions? Surely not from the comments Tom made.
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

From where come your questions? Surely not from the comments Tom made.

John H

Good question.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

Perfect next vehicle for Bert...so he can be cured of his sinful
wasteful ways.
http://tinyurl.com/qmexm

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended
leases, but because many people woke up and figured out they were the
wrong car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your
vehicle. It's called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate number
and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact that
you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of vehicle,
regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to deflect the
factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid
SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other
vehicles. So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it
didn't matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know
how childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your
vehicle, which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership.
Is that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling
well? Are the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

It makes them feel good, no other reason and no logic involved. I'm suprised
that you are ranting and raving about how stupid these people are for
wasting money.

Fuel prices moving up, just in time for spring boating and driving?
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
...

Just playing YOUR game, Bert. Remember? I tell you used car lots are
loaded with 1-2 year old SUVs, not because they came from ended
leases, but because many people woke up and figured out they were the
wrong car. You respond by explaining the purchase terms of your
vehicle. It's called a "feint".

You are making an assumption about why these people traded in 1-2 year
old SUV's. When you have interviewed a statistically appropriate
number and generated some statistics let me know.

I was explaining to you that the decision to purchase a Hybrid is not
based upon economics but, it is based upon emotion. Also, the fact
that you said "Beats me. I don't care. I'd never buy that type of
vehicle, regardless of how it was powered" was a poor attempt to
deflect the factthat you were beaten on your own terms.

I didn't say I wouldn't buy a hybrid. I said I wouldn't buy a hybrid
SUV.

You were harping about people "turning in" their SUV's for other
vehicles. So, I used the Escape as an example and your responded that it
didn't matter because you wouldn't buy that kind of vehicle. Do you know
how childish that sounds?

Not much different from you explaining the financing terms of your
vehicle, which was 100% irrelevant to the discussion.

Perhaps people buy the hybrid version because they want to use less
gasoline, not because they care so much about total cost of ownership.
Is that possible?

Look, Doug is ignoring economics when it conveniently fits his current
position. I'll have to remember that economics are not important to you.

Well, people are buying hybrids right now. If battery replacement issues
are such a problem, how do YOU explain the FACT that they are selling
well? Are the customers being hypnotized when they enter the dealerships?

It makes them feel good, no other reason and no logic involved. I'm
suprised that you are ranting and raving about how stupid these people are
for wasting money.


I think you're assuming buyers are always stupid. What is SUV buyers were
asked this question: "If you can have every single feature and benefit you
asked for, but get 23mpg instead of 14mpg, would that interest you?" How do
you suppose some buyers would react to that?

Remember: People buy the sizzle, not the steak (as sales trainers love to
point out).