E-Tec problems?????
 

M wrote:

Since those engines arent cheap, I am VERY interested about knowing
about ANY problem that MAY be there. The fuel use of the ETec seems to
be 5-15% higher as an optimax/4 stroke which is to me a concern. But
for others with deep pockets it may not.

I believe your theories about lean burn and detonation to be accurate.
Also accurate is that the technology seems to be mastered quiet well by
now. If thats the case for ETec will have to be seen.

Also I think the truth is the truth and should be told. Unfortunately
we dont know yet WHAT the truth actually is.

Matt,

Review the NG Google archives for '98-2000 for Ficht. Look closely at
the contributions from K and Grannis. That should tell you a lot about
your proposed purchase and the respective positions of these two. One
was proven right, the other wrong. Check it out.

--
Skipper

E-Tec problems?????
 

yes. For FICHT Karen was spot on ... However that does not mean that
ETec motors will take the same fate.

Take in mind that the Optimax were blowing up too but I think its fair
to say that they are holding up as well as any other motor by now.

Time will tell about the ETec.

I just dont think I want to be the Beta tester ;)

Matt

E-Tec problems?????
 

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...


It would be unbelievable. Did you see the Bass and Walleye Boats results
I posted a while ago? etec didn't use less gas than Optimax or HPDI.



Del,

Keep in mind, those fuel numbers in B&WB are for the HO series of E-TECs
which are their bass boat performance motors where fuel economy is not the
major priority.

E-Tec problems?????
 

"Billgran" wrote in message
.. .

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...


It would be unbelievable. Did you see the Bass and Walleye Boats
results I posted a while ago? etec didn't use less gas than Optimax
or HPDI.



Del,

Keep in mind, those fuel numbers in B&WB are for the HO series of
E-TECs which are their bass boat performance motors where fuel economy
is not the major priority.

Check out this article
http://bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=943489
for 250hp comparison.
at 3.3 mpg and 75 mph, that comes out to what, 22 gph at WOT?

Other BandWboats articles at
http://bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=1059733
http://bassandwalleyeboats.com/output.cfm?id=1059625

Too bad the tables aren't in the web version of the articles.
It isn't clear to me what the difference between a regular and HO version
is, since if they are both 200s, the gov't says they can't be more than
220 hp.

del

E-Tec problems?????
 

Billgran wrote:
"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...

It would be unbelievable. Did you see the Bass and Walleye Boats results
I posted a while ago? etec didn't use less gas than Optimax or HPDI.




Del,

Keep in mind, those fuel numbers in B&WB are for the HO series of E-TECs
which are their bass boat performance motors where fuel economy is not the
major priority.


Listen runaway either you're deliberately spreading untruths or you're
just so swept away in the marketing BS you've lost the ability to think.

500HP on 37 us gph is completely over the top, it's better than any of
the big engine makers car or boat can manage with the latest tech 4 strokes.

Even your dealer lies page claims the 250HP E-Tecs use 22 gph (that's
each for the dumbos) but that's also an outright lie in itself!!!
because your same marketing page also claims the 225 burns 21.5 gph so
just runaway runaway with your marketing BS, it now puts you in the same
bin as Krause & the brain dead dog trainer. (bins are always executable?)

You pretend you "believe" it yet you never post other "independent"
figures which show the E-Tecs as fuel hungry??? Why is that??? you have
just missed them???? You're not a victim of this attempted huge
deception you're about to try on the US market, but a full part of it.

No runaway you're just here to market your latest high markup product &
like you did with Ficht you'll say anything to suck a sale out of anyone.

K

E-Tec problems?????
 

M wrote:

\ Thanks for stating the bloody obvious about his fuel claims Matt &
for

risking the pack turning upon you:-) it's not much fun I can tell you.


Actually I am just stating fuel use for a 200 HP Optimax :) And make
the observations that for 2 engines fuel use would be good for one
maybe not.

My measurements are obtained via a smartcraft gage and correct except
unintended error.

The whole thing is he

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1...artcopy0mb.jpg


I am on neither side here but happen to own a 2.5l Optimax and was
interested in getting a 150 HP ETec.

apologies I accept that might have seemed like I was trying to verbal
you & it was not intended.


Since those engines arent cheap, I am VERY interested about knowing
about ANY problem that MAY be there. The fuel use of the ETec seems to
be 5-15% higher as an optimax/4 stroke which is to me a concern. But
for others with deep pockets it may not.

I think the fuel claims are well out of order when posted by dealers of
outright spruikers & as you say independent tests say otherwise.

Fuel consumption is such an easy one for marketers to fudge it's always
there & can be a significant factor when making a buying decision (more
so theses days with fuel prices as they are). Even though Govts have
stepped in with motor cars, they still push the boundaries of reality in
their advertising sometimes.

Tom's fuel claims are not even laughable, but runaway william's are &
worse than well out of order. He doesn't even seem to realise that he's
claiming hugely better fuel consumption than a proper EFI 4 stroke!!,
after the 2 stroke is on full mixture mode spilling fuel all over the place.


I believe your theories about lean burn and detonation to be accurate.
Also accurate is that the technology seems to be mastered quiet well by
now. If thats the case for ETec will have to be seen.

All the really big motor people have been spruiked with the Ficht
technology for years & years (orbital also for that matter) & all have
rejected it. The fact that yet another none mainstream engine builder
(even more so now BRP is a family Co) is having yet another go at
marketing them with no published patents as to exactly how they've dealt
with the core issues, means for me they're just scamming the public
again, hoping enough of them will hold together long enough that they
can get away with it.

To be honest "if" anyone big or small could actually figure out how to
run IC engines (or rockets) significantly lean at power, the big people
GM, Ford, all the Euro & Japanese based builders would be bashing on
their door looking for a license. It's that big a deal it really is.

Also I think the truth is the truth and should be told. Unfortunately
we dont know yet WHAT the truth actually is.

The spruikers, dealers & the manufacturer will never ever tell the
truth, their myriad priors confirm that is just never going to happen.
Runaway william was still spruiking Ficht in this NG with claims all was
well right up till a few weeks (the dealers had prior knowledge) before
OMC went toes up in a table drain, leaving everyone who believed him
holding a worthless engine (even if still running) on the stern of a now
worthless boat, covered by a worthless warranty.

If people see a need to turn on me for that - then by all means turn on
me.

Well I hope they don't & never do, but be aware vested interest is
involved here so ...............

K

Matt

E-Tec problems?????
 

I am on neither side here but happen to own a 2.5l Optimax and was
interested in getting a 150 HP ETec.

apologies I accept that might have seemed like I was trying to verbal
you & it was not intended.

No worries we are cool. I didnt take it that way at all.

Since those engines arent cheap, I am VERY interested about knowing
about ANY problem that MAY be there. The fuel use of the ETec seems to
be 5-15% higher as an optimax/4 stroke which is to me a concern. But
for others with deep pockets it may not.

I think the fuel claims are well out of order when posted by dealers of
outright spruikers & as you say independent tests say otherwise.

I hold in their favour that you can tweak fuel use a little depending
what boat and what prop you use ... The problem is that there is very
little ETec fuel use data and none looks in favour of ETec.

In favour of ETec we have to hold that its meant to be a powerful
motor, not so much a fuel miser. But since BRP advertises it as being
economic they will have to hold up to our scrutiny ;)


Tom's fuel claims are not even laughable, but runaway william's are &
worse than well out of order. He doesn't even seem to realise that he's
claiming hugely better fuel consumption than a proper EFI 4 stroke!!,
after the 2 stroke is on full mixture mode spilling fuel all over the place.

Well ... Tom so far has to me been a nice guy so i hold in his favour
that the measurements had some sort of bug in them. That doesnt have
to be intensional.

The thing with fuel use is also that many boaters eyeball it rather
than performing precision measurements...

I still hope that Tom will provide more data.


To be honest "if" anyone big or small could actually figure out how to
run IC engines (or rockets) significantly lean at power, the big people
GM, Ford, all the Euro & Japanese based builders would be bashing on
their door looking for a license. It's that big a deal it really is.

There are a few things against 2DFI motors in cars:

- You would NOT survive ANY doubt about their reliability

- ANY issue would be VERY costly

- An automotive motor is expected to last 10+ years

- The general automotive crowd does not take as much abuse as boaters
do and the automotive crowd seems to be better with class action
lawsuits.

- You do not have endless amounts of cold water to cool any heat issue

- You wouldnt even get the motor close to passing any sort of emission
law

- The resources who would work on it would be so small that even if it
could work it wouldnt. Same that happened to the Wankel / Rotary
engine. A great desin but has no chance to compete with the R&D
manpower of the Otto motor


If people see a need to turn on me for that - then by all means turn on
me.

Well I hope they don't & never do, but be aware vested interest is
involved here so ...............

Well actually its ME who has significant amounts of money invested in a
200 HP Orbital 2DFI motor; If this thing ever blows up, I will be sure
to speak about it worldwide ..

Matt

E-Tec problems?????
 

"K. Smith" wrote:

Billgran wrote:

Keep in mind, those fuel numbers in B&WB are for the HO series of E-TECs
which are their bass boat performance motors where fuel economy is not the
major priority.

Listen runaway either you're deliberately spreading untruths or you're
just so swept away in the marketing BS you've lost the ability to think.

Which?

--
Skipper

E-Tec problems?????
 

Matt,

Very little fuel use data for E-TECs? Take a look at e-tecinfonet.org for
some performance vs consumption numbers on several different boat/motor
combinations.

Agree that owner data can be inaccurate unless a fuel flow meter and GPS is
used.

Butch
"M" wrote in message
oups.com...

I am on neither side here but happen to own a 2.5l Optimax and was
interested in getting a 150 HP ETec.

apologies I accept that might have seemed like I was trying to verbal
you & it was not intended.

No worries we are cool. I didnt take it that way at all.

Since those engines arent cheap, I am VERY interested about knowing
about ANY problem that MAY be there. The fuel use of the ETec seems to
be 5-15% higher as an optimax/4 stroke which is to me a concern. But
for others with deep pockets it may not.

I think the fuel claims are well out of order when posted by dealers of
outright spruikers & as you say independent tests say otherwise.

I hold in their favour that you can tweak fuel use a little depending
what boat and what prop you use ... The problem is that there is very
little ETec fuel use data and none looks in favour of ETec.

In favour of ETec we have to hold that its meant to be a powerful
motor, not so much a fuel miser. But since BRP advertises it as being
economic they will have to hold up to our scrutiny ;)


Tom's fuel claims are not even laughable, but runaway william's are &
worse than well out of order. He doesn't even seem to realise that he's
claiming hugely better fuel consumption than a proper EFI 4 stroke!!,
after the 2 stroke is on full mixture mode spilling fuel all over the
place.

Well ... Tom so far has to me been a nice guy so i hold in his favour
that the measurements had some sort of bug in them. That doesnt have
to be intensional.

The thing with fuel use is also that many boaters eyeball it rather
than performing precision measurements...

I still hope that Tom will provide more data.


To be honest "if" anyone big or small could actually figure out how to
run IC engines (or rockets) significantly lean at power, the big people
GM, Ford, all the Euro & Japanese based builders would be bashing on
their door looking for a license. It's that big a deal it really is.

There are a few things against 2DFI motors in cars:

- You would NOT survive ANY doubt about their reliability

- ANY issue would be VERY costly

- An automotive motor is expected to last 10+ years

- The general automotive crowd does not take as much abuse as boaters
do and the automotive crowd seems to be better with class action
lawsuits.

- You do not have endless amounts of cold water to cool any heat issue

- You wouldnt even get the motor close to passing any sort of emission
law

- The resources who would work on it would be so small that even if it
could work it wouldnt. Same that happened to the Wankel / Rotary
engine. A great desin but has no chance to compete with the R&D
manpower of the Otto motor


If people see a need to turn on me for that - then by all means turn on
me.

Well I hope they don't & never do, but be aware vested interest is
involved here so ...............

Well actually its ME who has significant amounts of money invested in a
200 HP Orbital 2DFI motor; If this thing ever blows up, I will be sure
to speak about it worldwide ..

Matt

E-Tec problems?????
 

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Matt,

Very little fuel use data for E-TECs? Take a look at e-tecinfonet.org
for some performance vs consumption numbers on several different
boat/motor combinations.

Agree that owner data can be inaccurate unless a fuel flow meter and
GPS is used.

Please note that that is exactly what Bass and Walleye Boats does.

Butch
"M" wrote in message
oups.com...

snip