E-Tec problems?????
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

billgran wrote:
"K. Smith" wrote:

Oh Gene!!!! Read this, "cruising" @ 35MPH on his claimed E-Tecs
8-11 US
gph!!!!! The contender with twin 225 anythings will be almost 30
gph at
35mph.

Come
on Gene embarrass yourself as usual & say you think this is for
real.
I'll send it to the contender people for you:-)



Well, once again Karen is "blown out of the water" with actual facts.

Here are the performance results with twin 2006 250hp E-TECs that only
consume 20.7 gph at about 35 mph on a heavy 30' SeaCraft, less than 11
gph per motor, just like Gene said.

That is so much better fuel economy than Karen's contention that a
boat
that size should burn 30 gph at 35 mph!


Twin 250 E-TEC - 30' SeaCraft
19" Rebel - 3 blade props

RPM MPH GPH MPG
500 2.2 0.36 6.0
1000 5.7 1.46 3.9
1500 7.9 2.97 2.6
2000 9.0 5.98 1.5
2500 14.7 12.22 1.2
3000 21.4 14.20 1.5
3500 29.0 17.19 1.7
4000 35.3 20.70 1.7
4500 41.0 24.45 1.7
5000 46.2 31.59 1.5
5400 48.7 37.84 1.3


Is the data for one motor or both motors?

My 200 HP Optimax takes 19 GPH at WOT .. so 37 GPH for 500 HP wouldnt
be bad ...

It would be unbelievable. Did you see the Bass and Walleye Boats results
I posted a while ago? etec didn't use less gas than Optimax or HPDI.
These numbers would have etec producing 50 hp more per motor at the same
fuel usage than your Optimax.

Maybe Bill Grannis will provide his opinion about the veracity of the
numbers.

All other ETec fuel data I have seen so far the ETec got their ass
whipped by the optimax (even HDPI).

Matt

E-Tec problems?????
 

billgran wrote:

"K. Smith" wrote:


Oh Gene!!!! Read this, "cruising" @ 35MPH on his claimed E-Tecs 8-11 US
gph!!!!! The contender with twin 225 anythings will be almost 30 gph at
35mph.

Come

on Gene embarrass yourself as usual & say you think this is for real.
I'll send it to the contender people for you:-)



Well, once again Karen is "blown out of the water" with actual facts.

Here are the performance results with twin 2006 250hp E-TECs that only
consume 20.7 gph at about 35 mph on a heavy 30' SeaCraft, less than 11
gph per motor, just like Gene said.

That is so much better fuel economy than Karen's contention that a boat
that size should burn 30 gph at 35 mph!


Twin 250 E-TEC - 30' SeaCraft
19" Rebel - 3 blade props

RPM MPH GPH MPG
500 2.2 0.36 6.0
1000 5.7 1.46 3.9
1500 7.9 2.97 2.6
2000 9.0 5.98 1.5
2500 14.7 12.22 1.2
3000 21.4 14.20 1.5
3500 29.0 17.19 1.7
4000 35.3 20.70 1.7
4500 41.0 24.45 1.7
5000 46.2 31.59 1.5
5400 48.7 37.84 1.3


Nice try deceptive dealer try William, a different boat, different
engines & even then up at double the spruiker's claimed consumption!!!!
I know you have to say something because well what other marketing can
you do after your support of Ficht even up till you ran away. Na you're
just spreading marketing BS again & probably at least as false as the
original spruiker's claims.

Do you have anything to say about his 34% better fuel consumption claims
against the Fichts??? No?? nothing at all???

How about this contender weighing 7000lbs more than the ficht
contender??? any comments on that BS??? No?? Nothing at all???

What say you of the Bass & Walleye actual side by side tests of
E-Tecs??? where they conclude the E-Tecs are slow, heavy, thirsty &
expensive?? any comments at all??? no? What Nothing???? after all they
allow spruikers of marketing BS all the time & you say nothing???

How about my position that you're only pushing these things because like
Ficht you're gathering over the norm agg. kickbacks rebates, plans etc,
I mean the courts confirmed you were getting 30% on the big Fichts, what
price your marketing BS this time???

The tommy claim is 8 to 11 GPH no mention of "per engine" of course,
unless you're confirming the original spruik was exactly as I pinged it;
a false deceptive marketing lie??? I mean now he even comes back below &
admits it!!!!!

But hey keep up the selective deceptions William just as you did when I
was warning about Ficht & just as with Ficht when they fold you'll be
run away william again. As for your other deception that E-Tec is the
3rd biggest selling OB last year that's typical of all your marketing BS
look at the numbers, what?? even with your deceptive claiming of not yet
delivered engines you have no numbers at all.

As for the reasons they'll fail?? the same as I told you in 98-99 for
Ficht, not enough actual injection pressure, poor atomisation & lean
mixture heat buildup which leads to full detonation then the engine
switches to "normal" mixture & gets full mixture. (I'll ping the
lubrication or lack thereof separately:-))

By the way the article extracts pasted below have fallen for the E-Tec
marketing BS about high melting point pistons (what a total joke that
is!!!), long long before anything melts in there the engine is in
catastrophic detonation, the remains are melted that's true but what
killed it was detonation at power. If a fuel mixture sees much more than
260C it auto ignites "normal" aluminium doesn't look like melting till
well over double that temp.


Pasted extract, so even marketing Willy can see I was right all those
years ago;

"develop more pressure (up to 700 psi) than the Ficht solenoid (500
psi), and, secondly, the polarity of the coil can be reversed, allowing
for better control of the piston and a quicker plunger return. This
allows for higher engine rpm, as more fuel can be delivered in a shorter
period of time. The Ficht system relies solely on a spring to return the
piston"

& then

"Lean-burn technology has its limitations. Here’s why: A lean mixture
burns very hot. Under lean-burn conditions, once an engine reaches a
speed and load factor that generates too much heat for the cooling
system to handle, cylinder-head temperatures can rise to the point where
pistons melt and heads are damaged, and where cylinder-wall scoring is
inevitable."


K

E-Tec problems?????
 

Skipper wrote:
"K. Smith" wrote:


I wish you blokes were so keen to make the E-Tec spruikers give any
material at all to back their clearly false claims??


Take this example of recent times, in his sad efforts to support E-Tec
he comes out with total BS & you say nothing??? What are you that lonely
you dare not even ask for fear the bullies won't play with you
anymore??? Don't be, they're just the usual non boating idiots we have
to tolerate around here always have & always will, but at least hold
them to their own blatantly false claims. paste of just some E-Tec claims
all from just one E-Tec spruiker but hey this one is a true Krausite.


Yep, Krauses and his butt sniffers like Gene know nothing about boats
and real boating.


Oh Gene!!!! Read this, "cruising" @ 35MPH on his claimed E-Tecs 8-11 US
gph!!!!! The contender with twin 225 anythings will be almost 30 gph at
35mph.


Does no good confusing Krausites with phacts.


OR;- do you really think this nuffnuff has any idea what a contender
might weigh, much less that he owns one with twin 225 E-Tecs????? Come
on Gene embarrass yourself as usual & say you think this is for real.
I'll send it to the contender people for you:-)


Again, it does no good providing phacts to the Kloistered Krause Krowd.
They generate their own truths. They have ruined a once great NG with
their mind-numbing ignorance and BS.


But when the "real" side-by-side tests for speed, hole shots, etc.
facts arrived it was just another lie!!! as big & false as any the
dealers will tell:-) Except this one tries to gain cred by claiming to
have bought 2 of these slow, heavy, expensive & fuel hungry things &
that's not even mentioning the risks related to the Ficht based design &
you say nothing??? Cowards you really are.


Impossible the educate a stone, Karen.


Yet the original BS'ter who I suspect doesn't even have an E-Tec by the
way, you let off scott free??? none of you even ask??? Pathetic no
wonder you get ripped off by this low injection pressure, lean mixtures
at power, continuous spark, no proper lubrication mumbo jumbo, you've
been warned ............................. again:-)


So true!

--
Skipper

Hi Skip,

It seems lying has become a communicable disease in this NG with Krause
as the original carrier:-)

Ah deja news it's as if the dealers had never run away & hidden:-)

Runaway william tried to even deny it & I had to post his history here
just after Ficht went toes up in the ditch:-) He wouldn't even answer
the posts of desperate ripped off people he'd helped talk into buying
Ficht, now he wants another go??? na not likely.

K

E-Tec problems?????
 

Del Cecchi wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

billgran wrote:

"K. Smith" wrote:

Oh Gene!!!! Read this, "cruising" @ 35MPH on his claimed E-Tecs
8-11 US
gph!!!!! The contender with twin 225 anythings will be almost 30
gph at
35mph.

Come

on Gene embarrass yourself as usual & say you think this is for
real.
I'll send it to the contender people for you:-)


Well, once again Karen is "blown out of the water" with actual facts.

Here are the performance results with twin 2006 250hp E-TECs that only
consume 20.7 gph at about 35 mph on a heavy 30' SeaCraft, less than 11
gph per motor, just like Gene said.

That is so much better fuel economy than Karen's contention that a
boat
that size should burn 30 gph at 35 mph!


Twin 250 E-TEC - 30' SeaCraft
19" Rebel - 3 blade props

RPM MPH GPH MPG
500 2.2 0.36 6.0
1000 5.7 1.46 3.9
1500 7.9 2.97 2.6
2000 9.0 5.98 1.5
2500 14.7 12.22 1.2
3000 21.4 14.20 1.5
3500 29.0 17.19 1.7
4000 35.3 20.70 1.7
4500 41.0 24.45 1.7
5000 46.2 31.59 1.5
5400 48.7 37.84 1.3


Is the data for one motor or both motors?

My 200 HP Optimax takes 19 GPH at WOT .. so 37 GPH for 500 HP wouldnt
be bad ...


It would be unbelievable. Did you see the Bass and Walleye Boats results
I posted a while ago? etec didn't use less gas than Optimax or HPDI.
These numbers would have etec producing 50 hp more per motor at the same
fuel usage than your Optimax.

Maybe Bill Grannis will provide his opinion about the veracity of the
numbers.

All other ETec fuel data I have seen so far the ETec got their ass
whipped by the optimax (even HDPI).

Matt





Thanks for stating the bloody obvious about his fuel claims Matt & for
risking the pack turning upon you:-) it's not much fun I can tell you.

& thanks as always to smart Del; you're a straight shooter & appreciated
for it, even when you need to shoot me from time to time:-)

Runaway william & tommy too loony for school are not interested in
actual figures they're interested in selling overpriced, heavy, slow
thirsty engines at hugely inflated markups:-) Now add the Ficht historic
reliability question & you can see why they need to talk BS.

K

E-Tec problems?????
 

"K. Smith" wrote:

But hey, keep up the selective deceptions, William, just as you did when I
was warning about Ficht & just as with Ficht when they fold you'll be
run away william again. As for your other deception that E-Tec is the
3rd biggest selling OB last year that's typical of all your marketing BS
look at the numbers, what?? even with your deceptive claiming of not yet
delivered engines you have no numbers at all.

As for the reasons they'll fail?? the same as I told you in 98-99 for
Ficht, not enough actual injection pressure, poor atomisation & lean
mixture heat buildup which leads to full detonation then the engine
switches to "normal" mixture & gets full mixture. (I'll ping the
lubrication or lack thereof separately:-))

By the way the article extracts pasted below have fallen for the E-Tec
marketing BS about high melting point pistons (what a total joke that
is!!!), long long before anything melts in there the engine is in
catastrophic detonation, the remains are melted that's true but what
killed it was detonation at power. If a fuel mixture sees much more than
260C it auto ignites "normal" aluminium doesn't look like melting till
well over double that temp.

Pasted extract, so even marketing Willy can see I was right all those
years ago;

"develop more pressure (up to 700 psi) than the Ficht solenoid (500
psi), and, secondly, the polarity of the coil can be reversed, allowing
for better control of the piston and a quicker plunger return. This
allows for higher engine rpm, as more fuel can be delivered in a shorter
period of time. The Ficht system relies solely on a spring to return the
piston"

"Lean-burn technology has its limitations. Here’s why: A lean mixture
burns very hot. Under lean-burn conditions, once an engine reaches a
speed and load factor that generates too much heat for the cooling
system to handle, cylinder-head temperatures can rise to the point where
pistons melt and heads are damaged, and where cylinder-wall scoring is
inevitable."

Appreciate the detailed explanation, K. What I don't understand is why
Bill continues spruiking for these companies when so many folks have
been hurt by folks like him saying, "what, me worry." I honestly think
he doesn't understand that he'd get even more respect if he'd come clean
about Ficht & E-Tec.

--
Skipper

E-Tec problems?????
 

"K. Smith" wrote:

Hi Skip,

It seems lying has become a communicable disease in this NG with Krause
as the original carrier:-)

Ah, Deja News, it's as if the dealers had never run away & hidden:-)

Runaway William tried to even deny it & I had to post his history here
just after Ficht went toes up in the ditch:-) He wouldn't even answer
the posts of desperate ripped off people he'd helped talk into buying
Ficht, now he wants another go??? na not likely.

K

Again, Grannis does himself no favors with his continued spruiking for
these companies. I still have a lot of respect for his knowledge and
advice, and am puzzled and disappointed by his continued indefensible
Ficht & E-Tec positions. Suppose some folks just have closed minds to
the truth. Not a good trait for serious boaters.

As for the NG, believe we both know it has deteriorated significantly
over the last three years. The "regulars" trading 30 to 50 mindless
drivels each and every day have chased serious boaters to better climes.

--
Skipper

E-Tec problems?????
 

"K. Smith" wrote:

Thanks for stating the bloody obvious about his fuel claims Matt & for
risking the pack turning upon you:-) it's not much fun I can tell you.

& thanks as always to smart Del; you're a straight shooter & appreciated
for it, even when you need to shoot me from time to time:-)

Runaway william & tommy too loony for school are not interested in
actual figures they're interested in selling overpriced, heavy, slow
thirsty engines at hugely inflated markups:-) Now add the Ficht historic
reliability question & you can see why they need to talk BS.

K

I wouldn't worry about "the pack." Just consider the source and the
content of their accumulated assortment of pap.

--
Skipper

E-Tec problems?????
 

Skipper wrote:
"K. Smith" wrote:


But hey, keep up the selective deceptions, William, just as you did when I
was warning about Ficht & just as with Ficht when they fold you'll be
run away william again. As for your other deception that E-Tec is the
3rd biggest selling OB last year that's typical of all your marketing BS
look at the numbers, what?? even with your deceptive claiming of not yet
delivered engines you have no numbers at all.


As for the reasons they'll fail?? the same as I told you in 98-99 for
Ficht, not enough actual injection pressure, poor atomisation & lean
mixture heat buildup which leads to full detonation then the engine
switches to "normal" mixture & gets full mixture. (I'll ping the
lubrication or lack thereof separately:-))


By the way the article extracts pasted below have fallen for the E-Tec
marketing BS about high melting point pistons (what a total joke that
is!!!), long long before anything melts in there the engine is in
catastrophic detonation, the remains are melted that's true but what
killed it was detonation at power. If a fuel mixture sees much more than
260C it auto ignites "normal" aluminium doesn't look like melting till
well over double that temp.


Pasted extract, so even marketing Willy can see I was right all those
years ago;


"develop more pressure (up to 700 psi) than the Ficht solenoid (500
psi), and, secondly, the polarity of the coil can be reversed, allowing
for better control of the piston and a quicker plunger return. This
allows for higher engine rpm, as more fuel can be delivered in a shorter
period of time. The Ficht system relies solely on a spring to return the
piston"


"Lean-burn technology has its limitations. Here’s why: A lean mixture
burns very hot. Under lean-burn conditions, once an engine reaches a
speed and load factor that generates too much heat for the cooling
system to handle, cylinder-head temperatures can rise to the point where
pistons melt and heads are damaged, and where cylinder-wall scoring is
inevitable."


Appreciate the detailed explanation, K. What I don't understand is why
Bill continues spruiking for these companies when so many folks have
been hurt by folks like him saying, "what, me worry." I honestly think
he doesn't understand that he'd get even more respect if he'd come clean
about Ficht & E-Tec.

--
Skipper

Skip you give him credit as a normal human he's not he's a dealer:-)
Even when the Fichts were ruining countless peoples' pleasure time he
was still claiming all was well with them.

After OMC went bankrupt along with the silly warranty cover they sold we
don't know what Willy had to say, for he ran away:-)

As for the NG it's at least not as political & their childish posts
about OT toys is better than before.

K

E-Tec problems?????
 

\ Thanks for stating the bloody obvious about his fuel claims Matt &
for
risking the pack turning upon you:-) it's not much fun I can tell you.

Actually I am just stating fuel use for a 200 HP Optimax :) And make
the observations that for 2 engines fuel use would be good for one
maybe not.

My measurements are obtained via a smartcraft gage and correct except
unintended error.

The whole thing is he

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1...artcopy0mb.jpg


I am on neither side here but happen to own a 2.5l Optimax and was
interested in getting a 150 HP ETec.

Since those engines arent cheap, I am VERY interested about knowing
about ANY problem that MAY be there. The fuel use of the ETec seems to
be 5-15% higher as an optimax/4 stroke which is to me a concern. But
for others with deep pockets it may not.

I believe your theories about lean burn and detonation to be accurate.
Also accurate is that the technology seems to be mastered quiet well by
now. If thats the case for ETec will have to be seen.

Also I think the truth is the truth and should be told. Unfortunately
we dont know yet WHAT the truth actually is.

If people see a need to turn on me for that - then by all means turn on
me.

Matt

E-Tec problems?????
 

"K. Smith" wrote:

Appreciate the detailed explanation, K. What I don't understand is why
Bill continues spruiking for these companies when so many folks have
been hurt by folks like him saying, "what, me worry." I honestly think
he doesn't understand that he'd get even more respect if he'd come clean
about Ficht & E-Tec.

Skip, you give him credit as a normal human, he's not. he's a dealer:-)
Even when the Fichts were ruining countless peoples' pleasure time he
was still claiming all was well with them.

I know, and will never under why he couldn't admit the truth.

After OMC went bankrupt along with the silly warranty cover they sold, we
don't know what Willy had to say, for he ran away:-)

It's all in the Google archives. A truly sad episode for a respected
industry pro. He should have climbed above his loyalty to these
manufacturers, for it is the public that he ultimately serves.

As for the NG it's at least not as political & their childish posts
about OT toys is better than before.

But their intelligence level is so damn low. I wouldn't mind that they
don't know boats and boating if they weren't so damn intellectually
slow.

--
Skipper