Hello - Am wondering if anyone has had experience with using the Crazy
Creek Canoe Chair II in an Alumacraft canoe..
My partner and I have been canoeing in the BWCA and Quetico for years.
This past summer we thought it might make sense to add a little comfort
to the trip so we purchased the Crazy Creek chairs and strapped them
onto our canoe seats. The seats themselves were very comfortable, but
we also gradually noticed that the canoe felt 'tippy' and slightly
unstable.
We've never had a problem with stability, even in rough water so we
ignored it. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before the (formerly)
unthinkable happened to us. We had just got over a portage and boarded
the canoe when it simply rolled over and dumped us into the lake.
Fortunately, we were only in about 6' of water - very wet and
frustrated but still ok.
It happened a second time the next day - could have been bad had our
partners not been nearby to help us out.
Then (after much discussion, analysis, blame, and frustration) we
realized that the backrest itself was causing the problem. When we
would lean back into the seat, our body (from the hips to the shoulder
blades) was essentially locked into the back rest - the slightest
leaning resulted in a leverage being applied laterally on the canoe,
causing it to want to tip over.
A fully loaded canoe could manage for awhile, but an empty canoe was
downright dangerous.
I wanted to post this out how so people could be aware of the inherent
danger of using a backrest like this - and also to find out if anyone
else experienced the same thing.
Chris L. - MN..

wrote:
Hello - Am wondering if anyone has had experience with using the Crazy
Creek Canoe Chair II in an Alumacraft canoe..
My partner and I have been canoeing in the BWCA and Quetico for years.
This past summer we thought it might make sense to add a little comfort
to the trip so we purchased the Crazy Creek chairs and strapped them
onto our canoe seats. The seats themselves were very comfortable, but
we also gradually noticed that the canoe felt 'tippy' and slightly
unstable.
We've never had a problem with stability, even in rough water so we
ignored it. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before the (formerly)
unthinkable happened to us. We had just got over a portage and boarded
the canoe when it simply rolled over and dumped us into the lake.
Fortunately, we were only in about 6' of water - very wet and
frustrated but still ok.
It happened a second time the next day - could have been bad had our
partners not been nearby to help us out.
Then (after much discussion, analysis, blame, and frustration) we
realized that the backrest itself was causing the problem. When we
would lean back into the seat, our body (from the hips to the shoulder
blades) was essentially locked into the back rest - the slightest
leaning resulted in a leverage being applied laterally on the canoe,
causing it to want to tip over.
A fully loaded canoe could manage for awhile, but an empty canoe was
downright dangerous.
I wanted to post this out how so people could be aware of the inherent
danger of using a backrest like this - and also to find out if anyone
else experienced the same thing.
Chris L. - MN..


those are crazy canoe chairs. what's the backrest made out of... lead?

in article ,
at wrote on 12/30/05 6:46
PM:

Hello - Am wondering if anyone has had experience with using the Crazy
Creek Canoe Chair II in an Alumacraft canoe..
My partner and I have been canoeing in the BWCA and Quetico for years.
This past summer we thought it might make sense to add a little comfort
to the trip so we purchased the Crazy Creek chairs and strapped them
onto our canoe seats. The seats themselves were very comfortable, but
we also gradually noticed that the canoe felt 'tippy' and slightly
unstable.
We've never had a problem with stability, even in rough water so we
ignored it. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before the (formerly)
unthinkable happened to us. We had just got over a portage and boarded
the canoe when it simply rolled over and dumped us into the lake.
Fortunately, we were only in about 6' of water - very wet and
frustrated but still ok.
It happened a second time the next day - could have been bad had our
partners not been nearby to help us out.
Then (after much discussion, analysis, blame, and frustration) we
realized that the backrest itself was causing the problem. When we
would lean back into the seat, our body (from the hips to the shoulder
blades) was essentially locked into the back rest - the slightest
leaning resulted in a leverage being applied laterally on the canoe,
causing it to want to tip over.
A fully loaded canoe could manage for awhile, but an empty canoe was
downright dangerous.
I wanted to post this out how so people could be aware of the inherent
danger of using a backrest like this - and also to find out if anyone
else experienced the same thing.
Chris L. - MN..

Try a kayak. Nice seat with a back on it, and your ass is ain't sittin'
above the water line.

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article ,
at wrote on 12/30/05
6:46
PM:

Hello - Am wondering if anyone has had experience with using the Crazy
Creek Canoe Chair II in an Alumacraft canoe..
My partner and I have been canoeing in the BWCA and Quetico for years.
This past summer we thought it might make sense to add a little comfort
to the trip so we purchased the Crazy Creek chairs and strapped them
onto our canoe seats. The seats themselves were very comfortable, but
we also gradually noticed that the canoe felt 'tippy' and slightly
unstable.
...
realized that the backrest itself was causing the problem. When we
would lean back into the seat, our body (from the hips to the shoulder
blades) was essentially locked into the back rest - the slightest
leaning resulted in a leverage being applied laterally on the canoe,
causing it to want to tip over.
A fully loaded canoe could manage for awhile, but an empty canoe was
downright dangerous.
...

Try a kayak. Nice seat with a back on it, and your ass is ain't sittin'
above the water line.

OP has the right analysis, I think. It's not the mass of the seat itself but
the way it interferes with the (reflexive, especially in a long-time
paddling team) balance adjustments in the upper body. Maybe a low-back or
lumbar support would be a useful compromise.

Like a k**** seat.

Hth,
Fred Klingener

I have used this seat in a Clipper Tripper canoe when we did the Bowron
Canoe Circuit. We did not experience any instability in the boat caused by
the seat, but then the boat was loaded with gear and quite stable. I agree
that the seat was comfortable and useful in camp too.
Bill
wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello - Am wondering if anyone has had experience with using the Crazy
Creek Canoe Chair II in an Alumacraft canoe..
My partner and I have been canoeing in the BWCA and Quetico for years.
This past summer we thought it might make sense to add a little comfort
to the trip so we purchased the Crazy Creek chairs and strapped them
onto our canoe seats. The seats themselves were very comfortable, but
we also gradually noticed that the canoe felt 'tippy' and slightly
unstable.
We've never had a problem with stability, even in rough water so we
ignored it. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before the (formerly)
unthinkable happened to us. We had just got over a portage and boarded
the canoe when it simply rolled over and dumped us into the lake.
Fortunately, we were only in about 6' of water - very wet and
frustrated but still ok.
It happened a second time the next day - could have been bad had our
partners not been nearby to help us out.
Then (after much discussion, analysis, blame, and frustration) we
realized that the backrest itself was causing the problem. When we
would lean back into the seat, our body (from the hips to the shoulder
blades) was essentially locked into the back rest - the slightest
leaning resulted in a leverage being applied laterally on the canoe,
causing it to want to tip over.
A fully loaded canoe could manage for awhile, but an empty canoe was
downright dangerous.
I wanted to post this out how so people could be aware of the inherent
danger of using a backrest like this - and also to find out if anyone
else experienced the same thing.
Chris L. - MN..

OP has the right analysis, I think. It's not the mass of the seat itself but
the way it interferes with the (reflexive, especially in a long-time
paddling team) balance adjustments in the upper body. Maybe a low-back or
lumbar support would be a useful compromise.

Like a k**** seat.

Hth,
Fred Klingener

mr. klingener nails it.

and wendy nails it too:

Why New Years Sucks

snip

And so, the perfect metaphor for that relationship -- the most perfect
metaphor for my luck in love is how we ended up celebrating New Years.
I spent it in Chicago, at my neighbor's party, jetlagged and a little
heartbroken after a short trip alone to Europe, wondering what was so
wrong with me that I was destined to be unlovable, while he spent it in
Casa-****ing-Blanca, Morocco with a couple of close friends. Oh, the
irony! Casablanca. Without me! As in, I wasn't even invited.

What's really shameful is that I stayed with him another 3 months after
that, and then I wasn't even the one to really suggest the breakup,
though it did seem the healthiest choice when we got down to it. It
took months to get over him, months to stop missing him, to feel happy
just being alone. But when I finally did move on, I had some
revelations about what it is I'm looking for, and top of the list is
not having to convince someone to be into me. Also, if you're going to
go to Casablanca, you better damn well take me with you.


[ and echoed by bonnie: ]


I Can't Make You Love Me
Mike Reid and Allen Shamblin
performed by Bonnie Raitt

Turn down the lights
Turn down the bed
Turn down these voices
inside my head

Lay down with me
Tell me no lies
Just hold me close,
don't patronize

Don't patronize me

Cause I can't make you love me
if you don't
You can't make your heart feel
something it won't
Here in the dark
in these final hours
I will lay down my heart
And I'll feel the power
but you won't
No, you won't
Cause I can't make you love me
if you don't

I'll close my eyes
then I won't see
the love you don't feel
when you're holding me

Morning will come
and I'll do what's right
just give me till then
to give up this fight
and I will give up this fight

Cause I can't make you love me
if you don't
You can't make your heart feel
something it won't
Here in the dark
in these final hours
I will lay down my heart
And I'll feel the power
but you won't
No, you won't
Cause I can't make you love me
if you don't

in article , John Fereira at
wrote on 12/31/05 2:36 PM:

"Fred Klingener" wrote in
:

"KMAN" wrote in message
...
in article ,
at wrote on 12/30/05
6:46 PM:

Hello - Am wondering if anyone has had experience with using the
Crazy Creek Canoe Chair II in an Alumacraft canoe..
My partner and I have been canoeing in the BWCA and Quetico for
years. This past summer we thought it might make sense to add a
little comfort to the trip so we purchased the Crazy Creek chairs
and strapped them onto our canoe seats. The seats themselves were
very comfortable, but we also gradually noticed that the canoe felt
'tippy' and slightly unstable. ...
realized that the backrest itself was causing the problem. When we
would lean back into the seat, our body (from the hips to the
shoulder blades) was essentially locked into the back rest - the
slightest leaning resulted in a leverage being applied laterally on
the canoe, causing it to want to tip over. A fully loaded canoe
could manage for awhile, but an empty canoe was downright dangerous.
...

Try a kayak. Nice seat with a back on it, and your ass is ain't
sittin' above the water line.

OP has the right analysis, I think. It's not the mass of the seat
itself but the way it interferes with the (reflexive, especially in a
long-time paddling team) balance adjustments in the upper body.

That's pretty easy to confirm while sitting in a chair. Sit in a chair with
your chest slightly forward and then lean back and forth with your shoulders
and you'll find that your upper body can move independantly of your lower
body. Lean back into the seat and try the same and you'll find that it's
difficult to move your upper body without your lower body shifting as well.

In a boat that may be rocking underneath you, if your lower body can move
independantly, you can maintain your center of gravity with your upper body.

It really has nothing do with was a kayak verses a canoe.

This group needs an enema to start the new year.