Karen, thanks for the info ...

btw. you still owe me some ETec info

I havent ruled out that motor yet, no maintenance, light, little fuel
use, quiet and lotsa power is just soooo tempting ...

Would you please email me (real addy posted)? ( I think your posted
email here is eithr fake or not checked)...

Matt

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 25 Dec 2005 12:06:41 -0800, wrote:


So I was wondering if the GPS can do more as what we can do on a map

Ah yes, the wonderful Garmin manuals - one of their more successful
customer interfaces that they don't even bother to improve. Well done
Garmin!! Another success in dealing with the average joe.

No kidding ... its one of the "useful" kind which describes functions
by how to activate them in the menu (duh) but does not waste time
explaining what exactly it does and how it works .... who would want to
knwo that ?

Well, according to the manual, which I just downloaded, it either does
it through setting Waypoints and creating a Route, or it doesn't do it
that way at all, but by using the "highway" setting.

I can't make heads or tales out of the manual without having a 276c in
front of me to experiment with.

Well ... its too cold to use the boat for a real life test ... I tested
this CDI in simulator mode .... but that only works so well and doesnt
simulate a cross current ...

What it does with NO cross current is, it steers you back to the direct
line from start to target IF you follow the little CDI icon .... hard
to say what it will do with cross current ...

If I had to guess, just a guess, I don't think it will deal with set
and drift in the sense that it will correct a course for you. What it
will do is show you where you are drifting off course, but I don't
think it will automatically create a corresponding plot change or set
up a corresponding course correction (think of it as aiming a rifle
and correcting for a cross wind - inches to the right or left of the
target, etc.) from the git go by entering set and drift.

I will test this in summer and report back ...


My Raymarine RC400 Chartplotter will do it just fine, but then with
Navionics Gold chart, it's over $700.

The garmin unit with map and memory is even more ..

Matt

I'm not a Garmin fan - I've had three or four really unfortunate
customer service problems with them with one that was really bad and a
rather spectacular example of how not to deal with a customer.

After that last one, I have never purchased another Garmin unit again
and I never will.

I am sorry to hear that

I have just the opposite experience ... Have my 3rd GPS and also a
Garmin Fishfinder .. Their electronics, displays and user friendly
menues are the best out there (IMO)...

Customer service has been good too ...

Just their manuals stink to the point where they are useless ....

They have some really tech support guys but with Garmins sales going up
over the last years they are now a little overrun with the phone droid
tech support ..

Like:

Me: Hello, .. I have such and such question about this and that
function of a 276C ...

Phone Driod: *** Deer-Caught-In-The-Headlight-Silence **** ... Have
turned the unit on ... ?

Me: ... well thanks for your help anyways ... *click*




Matt

IMO, for the gps to compute a compass course to compensate for wind and
current it would have to have some means to acquire the inputs. In theory,
it could compute the cross track error and recommend a course to compensate.
Perhaps long stretches between waypoints in deep open water would be a
situation in which such calculations would be possible.

The type of boating in which most of us seem to participate with relatively
inexpensive gps it may not be quite so practical. Coastal cruising and
river and lake boating in my area is full of changing conditions due to the
shallow bottom conditions causing frequent changes in the speed and
direction of currents and the surrounding coastal structure which has a
similar effect on wind direction.

I'm pretty happy with the cross track error output on my gps. After a few
corrections on a long course I find it pretty easy to find a steady heading
that requires little additional human input.

Butch
"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
news
On 23 Dec 2005 22:07:18 -0800, wrote:


Question is:

What does one have to do to get to the target on a staright line? Lets
assume we dont make lots of intermediate waypoints.

My 276C has CDI (cross track thing or whatever) havent been able to
test it but wonder if thats the solution?

Yes, Matt, that is the solution... or part of it, anyway. First note
the compass direction that is required to arrive at the destination.
Next, proceed on course and watch for the amount of error that
accrues. Alter your heading a few degrees (as appropriate) and hold
that heading. You may have to make a few more adjustments along the
way.

Net result is that if your destination was at a GPS course of 000
degrees and you had a wind from 090... then without correction you
would end up tracking a path of (something like) 352 degrees... and
missing your destination, or having to sail "Direct TO" from the point
you figured out you were lost. If you pilot a course of 008, then you
should come out at your destination.

Bear in mind that your boat is "facing" a heading of 008, but is
actually traveling a straight line to 000.

--

_ ___c
\ _| \_
__\_| oooo \_____
~~~~|______________/ ~~~~~
~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/
Homepage*
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

wrote:
Karen, thanks for the info ...

btw. you still owe me some ETec info

I havent ruled out that motor yet, no maintenance, light, little fuel
use, quiet and lotsa power is just soooo tempting ...

Would you please email me (real addy posted)? ( I think your posted
email here is eithr fake or not checked)...

Matt




Thanks Matt, as for the other GPS replies I mostly agree but they all
assume you know the direction & quantum of set/drift etc (believe it or
not most smaller boats don't even track true through the water & it
varies with speed, sea state, etc), then there's a further assumption
that the quantum AND direction of off track forces will remain constant
throughout the leg; both rarely happen.

All assumptions are a big ask & pretty much negate the perfect beauty
of the GPS itself because you still end up with a ded reckon element in
your navigation (much reduced yes but why have any???) Given how easy it
is to put a series of points along your displayed track it's easy enough
to avoid. I have assumed you are using the GPS to drive an autopilot???
but if you're standing there at the wheel then the highway display can
help & most you can even set the width of that highway so it doesn't
drive you mad by being too sensitive.

Someone said you might not get to your destination but alas that's not
right & indeed the essence of the problem:-) the GPS & autopilot will
"always" get you there, but you might be approaching a long off waypoint
from the wrong & possibly a dangerous direction:-)

Sorry about the Ficht E-Tec thing Matt:-) I think you can safely buy an
E-Tec as you could most any other brand & certainly you shouldn't be
influenced by just one voice (no matter how loud:-))

I'm certainly a bit touchy on the subject, particularly when before I
even enter the subject I get personally denigrated by "believers" who
are nothing more than that & will not even try to address the technical
issues when raised. Since 98 we've pretty much been on our own against
the Ficht & Optimax technology & sadly it's always degenerated into a NG
personal slinging match, mostly me against the selling dealers (do they
have a motive to silence me??) & the usual NG suspects (owners or dealer
spruikers, do they have a motive in silencing me??; see below:-)). I
have to say since OMC rolled into a ditch under a pile of dead Fichts I
see lots of people now who suddenly "knew" they would fail & even can
tell you exactly why:-)

Other, than noting every answer & maybe the grounds for it, you should
always balance the pros & cons to your own satisfaction.

K

Tom,

Have been comparing Lowrance LMS-337CDF vs Garmin 198C. Results have been
interesting,

Many swear by Garmin, any Garmin, while a small minority seem to prefer
Lowrance. Probably depends on where you started given the reliability of
both brands. I currently have a Lowrance LMS-160 purchased in 1999 with
which I've been pretty happy overall. I've never had any issues until last
Spring when I started getting vertical lines on the display. The unit was
remains useful but I needed an excuse to upgrade to a WAAS unit and now I
have one.

I down loaded the virtual 337 and owner's manual and have been playing with
it for about a week. I also compared both units side by side at my local
Boater's World store. The display on the Lowrance is superior with a
480X480 display but a map chip must be purchased at around $100 for a
Navionics Gold. The Garmin has a complete coastal Blue Map installed but
who needs all the extra mapping? Lawrance also has a chip for about $80
(???) which has good coastal coverage for a wide area and even covers our
Mobile Bay Delta very well. The Garmin is more expensive but by the time a
couple of chips for the Lowrance have been purchased the prices are similar.
The Lowrance includes a dual freq transducer with temp and water speed
included. The Garmin xducer must be added and if dual freq, temp and speed
are included it gets pretty expensive. On balance the Lowrance is a little
less expensive and has a better display, IMO.

The downloadable virtual 337 is a great teaching device. It also has a
couple of Navionics maps included to give the user an idea of the detail
possible on the unit.

I'm not in love with either owner's manual but the Lowrance manual seems
slightly easier to understand. Both companies could take lessons from the
military on how to write manuals.

I believe I'll be buying the 337 from Lowrance. The display quality and the
fine detail of the Navionics Gold maps are the major discriminators but the
lower price is also attractive.

Butch
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Snipped!

On 25 Dec 2005 11:26:54 -0800, wrote:

can a GPS (alone, no autpilot) show you the course or where you have
to point your bow (bearing) in order to drive a straight line to your
target. WITHOUT creating waypoints or "manual" input like adjusting for
cross track errors ...

===============================

I think that if I understand your question, you are asking if a GPS
can be used as a navigation calculator to solve vector problems. If
so, the answer is no. Pilots used to carry something which resembled
a circular dial with rotating cursor arm if my memory is correct. I
believe you would enter your air speed, wind speed and wind angle and
it would calculate course correction or something like that. Is that
what you are asking? If yes, you could set up something on a laptop
or Palm Pilot using a spreadsheet or BASIC program. The math is not
that complicated if you are conversant with vectors and trig. TI used
to offer a Navigation package with their high end programmable
calculators that would solve vector problems.

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:33:08 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:

IMO, for the gps to compute a compass course to compensate for wind and
current it would have to have some means to acquire the inputs.

========================

Exactly right.

wrote in message


No kidding ... its one of the "useful" kind which describes functions
by how to activate them in the menu (duh) but does not waste time
explaining what exactly it does and how it works .... who would want to
knwo that ?

I've had a Garmin 48 handheld for several years, and that unit will display
a "highway" page and tell me the crosstrack error. Its then a simple
matter to manually compensate your heading to offset the drift and/or
recover the original track, and the display continues to show your position
relative to the originally calculated track line.

When dealing with these manuals, it is well to remember that their aim is to
instruct on the operation of the unit, not to teach navigation.

Gene Kearns wrote:
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:33:13 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:


On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:33:08 GMT, "Butch Davis"
wrote:


IMO, for the gps to compute a compass course to compensate for wind and
current it would have to have some means to acquire the inputs.

========================

Exactly right.


Anybody know of a GPS with this capability?


I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish, but inputting wind speed
and current wouldn't help since both affect different boats in different
ways. A smaller, shorter boat, for example, is less affected by wind
than a taller, longer boat.

The purpose of a GPS is to do more than a compass. It will help you
correct for wind and current if you simply use it to get to your waypoint.

Dan