in article , RkyMtnHootOwl at
wrote on 12/18/05 6:12 AM:

Bill & Wilko, I will write this in response to what you have posted,
and hope you all will hear what I am trying to say.

Warning: such a preface from Tinkernhootowl is almost always a prelude to
kookery!

Now Wilko, you recently identified me as a pest, and not a troll

They are both wrong.

You are more of what is known as a "netkook."

I take that as a compliment!

Thus proving rather neatly that netkook is the most accurate descriptor.

I really did come back to the NG wanting to have a
friendlier time

And yet you didn't make any effort to enable that outcome!

and found that the first thing I posted was trolled
all over. I tried posting OT content, humor, stayed away from religion
and politics, encouraged one in particular the opportunity to do
likewise, took his insults as lightly as possible, and still found
that no matter what I said, it attracted lightening like a lightening
rod.

I know this is likely a key aspect of your netkookness, but do you think it
is possible that it is internal rather than external forces that are
bringing about this result?

I had hopes that I could enter into a meaningful conversation with the
other. I will also admit as time progressed, that I was willing to
entertain his activity, in so much as no one else was posting here on
the NG. It became sort of a one-up-man-ship game. However I would much
prefer a positive thread such as this one. At the same time I found
that I was hesitant to post to these other threads, because that would
just attract the above activity, and spoil it for you all.

Another aspect of netkookness. Did anyone else ask for your help in this
way? Hm? No, I don't think so. Thus you are yet again setting yourself up as
a false god.

So I
figured there may be some benefit for me to run interferance
elsewhere, and keep him busy there. At least then he does not bother
you all on some of the other threads.

All bow to the false god of Tinkernhootowl!

I know that this uses all of your's bandwidth, as it does mine. I am
on limited bandwidth, in as much as I am using a free server at this
time, so I have been cut off on a daily basis, and come to understand
more the issues involved in using the newsreader services. Previously
when I posted from Google, I did not totally understand how it all
worked from this side. Now that I am contemplating the benefit of
subscribing to a service, I realize my money will be on the line as
yours has been.

It is quite possible to post from google without doing so in an irritating
way. It just takes a few minutes to figure it out. Seek help.

I have read on your website about dealing with trolls, and I suppose
this is wisdom that you have learned from previous personal
experiences, - not to answer a troll, ignore the troll. Well I am
willing to try doing this, and we will see where it ends up. I hope to
have meaningful converstions with all of you, and that includes in
particular, Oc1, riverman, John F., Wilko, and all the others from
last year that I probably torqued off.

This is deja vu all over again!

However, as much as I do not desire to be ignored, neither do I desire
to be condescended to. Recently when riverman was giving me a few
licks with the riverman' clue bat, I responded with a little pointed
prose! I understand that some of you have been around not only the RBP
for a long time, but also the sport of paddling. I am sure that you
know more than I will ever know about paddling, and I have much to
learn from you. I do not desire to cut myself off from you as a
learning resourse.

However neither do I feel that my position on this group, or for that
matter any discussion group, to be one where I just sit and listen to
the "great ones". As I have surfed, and lurked around (in NGs since
the early '80s), I have found that it seems most NG's have resident
experts that have been around since the beginning of time. They are
constantly spinning and weaving their ownership of the group, such
that noone else can really ever get in the conversational life of the
group.

That's particularly the case in an arse-pucker style of group like RPB. But
you aren't going to make any headway on that in your current netkook style.
You've got the sucking up part right, but you always ruin it with your
netkookisms.

Typically it seems there is a core group of 10 to 20 alpha types, and
the rest are expected to just be groupies.

Correct.

Also what I have found is
that as groups go through genesis, the groupies eventually fall off,
and the level of interest and participation without the adoring
audience falters as well.

Commonly.

It seems to be a normal and healthy
cleansing process to have people move on as they develope new
interests and circles of friends. Though I miss some of the
individuals that I have met along the way, I usually can find them
elsewhere, and continue a friendship.

If I came in here as a Rhino in a porceline factory

Well stated, but I think that would be your impact in most any group.

it is because I
found a NG with a subject that I was really interested in and I was
not willing to be subject to the above rules of NG participation. If I
stepped on some toes, I will apologize profusely, and only request
that in the future, that you not put your toes in jeapordy, by being
unwilling to move them quicker. I realize that some of you have been
standing here in the group for a long time, but I see it more as a
dance, where we all have to get out on the floor, and each dance is
new, and noone owns their corner of the dance floor. If that is a
disturbing thought to you, I would suggest that maybe you need to get
your toes stepped on more often.

And you should probably just do what you say you are going to do instead of
constantly blathering about how you are going to do it. This is a big part
of your netkookery. You are constatly overstating the importance of your own
actions and blathering about them endlessly to boot.

So the prose was not meant as an attack on the integrity of the
riverman or those that preceded or followed him, but as a statement
that I reserve the right to be me today, and not constrained by how it
was yesterday. If I make a comment on such as regarding the photos of
this thread, it is because that is how I see it today. If you would
like to influence my vision, please don't blind me with the brillance
of your past enlightenments, but encourage me to open my eyes wider to
see more of this wonderful experience of paddling, that I only regret
I waited so long to enjoy myself.

Again, the blathering, Tinkernhoot. The blathering. It can't help but ****
people off.

Wilko, I realize that you and others may already be in ignore mode,
but I also know that there may be many others out there who will read
this, and I can only encourage you to come participate in this NG.

On this point you are most definitely incorrect. Netkooks are a disincentive
to newcomers.

seriously desire to hear from all of you, and together learn from our
mutual experiences. I am sure there are other lurkers out there, and I
know that it can be hard to break into an established group and figure
out the geo-political demographics of a group, but it is worth the
effort, and the ride is a blast especially when it comes to paddling
and the RBP.

RkyMtnHootOwl OvO

Geezuskeerist vOv

Wilko wrote:

Socemdog wrote:
I know who Leland is - one of the great extreme boaters from Western North
Carolina. I know he wasn't in raft!!

Robin, have you talked to Leland recently? (BTW: he's wearing a beard in
those pictures) He's definately into rafting as well!

Considering everything he's paddled so far, I'm not at all surprised by
him rafting. :-)

Wilko


Good to see everyone gives in to pushing rubber sooner or later.

Blakely

Hey Blakely, I don't mind using rubber for other things...


(Nah, not that! ;-))


....such as wrist gaskets on my paddling jacket! But actually paddling
such a floating undercut? Not for some time to come! :-)

Good to see some familiar faces here! :-)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilkoa t)dse(d otnl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/

railtramp!!

Nice to see your (new) sig! How are you?

--riverman

riverman wrote:

railtramp!!

Nice to see your (new) sig! How are you?

--riverman

Riverman!

Been good. Have not done much lately except get older. I still post as
Railtramp, but as it is an AOL account, the only newsgroup support is
via Google. I do most of my reading on the company account and will
occaisonally post from here. Normally, I try to keep the same signature
lines, but I got lazy on that last one.

Where are you at these days? You were headed to Hong Kong last time we
touched base. At least you are more out of harms way than you were in
the Congo.

Planning the winter lottery draws for rafting trips. I will need late
summer dates if I apply since we will be doing a midsummer vacation trip
to Finland. So looking forward to that.

I will take some time between the holidays and send you an nice long
email at your yahoo address.

Blakely

---
Blakely LaCroix
Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA.
r.b.p clique member # 86

The best adventure is yet to come.