JimH,
I only wish that was me, they were some great links. ; )

What city does is his IP originate. If you remember that is they way I
could tell you were not Skipper.

" *JimH*" wrote in message
. ..
Hi Smithers, I mean Sam.


"samvaknin" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

You may find these of added interest regarding treatment and healing of
narcissism:

Only a qualified mental health diagnostician can determine whether
someone suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and this,
following lengthy tests and personal interviews.

These may be of help:

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/1.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq63.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq77.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq12.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/10.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/case03.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/faq31.html

http://malignantselflove.tripod.com/abusefamily8.html

Take care.

Sam


John H. wrote:
Harry, I know you've already seen this, but it's worth a double reading!



On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:11:16 -0500, "Sir Rodney Smithers" Ask me about
my
knighthood. wrote:

Harry, You may want to shot this to your wife. It appears NYOB is
correct,
the treatment options and success rate are bleak.

SHOULD WE CALL THEM HUMAN?

Treatment Options

Aims of Treatment should focus on aiding the narcissist to increase his
empathy for others, helping him learn to accept slights and rejections
from
others without feeling threatened, and developing a more realistic view
of
his abilities.

Personality disorders are a challenge to treat. This is because an
individual is defined by his personality and personality is an
essential
part of a person's self-perception. A narcissist does not willingly
seek
treatment because he does not wish anyone to think that he has any
weaknesses. He experiences needing help as demeaning. When a
narcissistic
individual does present for treatment it is usually at the insistence
of a
family member, upon the occurrence of a major life crisis, or issues
other
than personality problems.



Since a narcissist does not tolerate discomfort well, he has difficulty
coping with depression or anxiety (two of the issues which might
precipitate
his presenting for therapy of his own accord). If you want the
narcissist to
seek treatment then make sure he is lacking in narcissistic supply. He
could
go into a dysporia (depression) and perhaps seek treatment.



Narcissists will present with a wide range of pathology. No matter the
pathology the narcissist possesses, however, he does not see his
difficulty
interacting with others as part of his problem. He projects his
relational
problems onto others and describes others as having trouble interacting
with
him.



Treating the narcissist is difficult because the narcissist attempts to
sustain an image of perfection and indestructibility. Underneath this
facade
is an insecure person with low self-esteem. By presenting with this
seemly
secure self-image, the narcissist is protecting himself from his worse
fear--that people will find out that he has imperfections and
weaknesses
just like everyone else. Coping skills to improve interpersonal
relationships and to aid the narcissist to focus on his actual
abilities
(not those that he fantasizes he has) are usually dealt with in
psychotherapy.



Pharmacological Intervention


No specific pharmacological intervention for NPD has been found.
Underlying
symptoms of Axis I diagnoses are usually treated with antidepressants
or
other drugs.



Individual Therapy


Long-term psychodynamic therapy has been found to be the most effective
in
working with this disorder. The therapist must create an accepting
environment, thus allowing the patient to develop an idealizing
transference
toward the therapist. An active confrontation of the patient's anger,
envy
of others, specific need to be self-sufficient, and exploitation of
other
difficulties can inflict a narcissistic injury. If this occurs then the
patient will in all likelihood terminate therapy.



Usually most therapists treat the co-existing mental disorders and not
NPD
itself except in cases of crisis. A therapist should be aware that
he/she
must help sustain the narcissist's self-image and help the patient use
their
narcissistic characteristics to develop a self-image which is not based
on
fear.



In order for therapy to be successful, a strong alliance must exist
between
the therapist and the patient. This can only be accomplished in
long-term
therapy. A general non-defensive and non-competitive atmosphere must be
created in the therapy room. When working with NPD a therapist will
have to
deal with the unreasonable demands of the patient, their expectations,
and
their criticisms. NPD patients do not accept their own defects and
aiding
the patient in learning how to acknowledge these defects is an
important
part of the therapeutic intervention. However, the NPD patient will run
from
any situation where his self-esteem is diminished. Therefore, any
confrontation by the therapist must be clear, direct, repetitive, and
firm
to break through the defense mechanisms used by the NPD patient.



During therapy the patient will scrutinize not only the verbalizations,
but
also the non-verbal behaviors of the therapist searching for ways that
the
therapist is responding negatively to his self-aggrandizement or
arrogance.
He will take any such signals as rejection. Even during extended
therapy
only small changes should be expected in the patient's personality. The
therapist should also be aware that it is impossible as therapy
progresses
not to disappoint these patients.




Group Therapy


Group therapy is rarely the primary tool for NPD. In group therapy
narcissists tend to dominate the group or tire the other members. It
can be
valuable as an addition to individual therapy. Patients are encouraged
to
explore their behavior toward others and to experience empathy with
other
groups members. Narcissists, however, tend to see groups as competitive
and
feel that they are not receiving enough of the group leader's
attention.
This makes them think that their own need for empathy is not being met.
Narcissists also do not tend to respond well to critical feedback which
might come from other group members. They tend to drop out of group of
the
first sign of criticism.



Hospitalization


Patients with severe NPD are frequently hospitalized. Some are very
impulsive and self-destructive and have poor reality testing. This
comes
about because of comorbid diagnosis on Axis I. Hospitalization should
be
brief and specific to the treatment of the presenting symptoms.



Prognosis


Treatment of the narcissist does not usually have positive results
except
for reducing the side effects of depression and anxiety which are
treated
with medication. The narcissist does not usually stay in treatment long
enough for therapy to be beneficial.

"Sir Rodney Smithers" Ask me about my knighthood. wrote in message
news:...
Harry,
PS - This behavior is very characteristic of those suffering from
Narcissistic Personality Disorder. While NOYB might be correct that
their
is no cure for NPD, you may want to ask your wife, as a social
worker, she
might be able to refer you to someone who can help.


"Sir Rodney Smithers" Ask me about my knighthood. wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Nice try, crapbrain, but the reality is, I simply declined to
supply you
with information.

Harry,
Don't you get your panties in a wad whenever someone does provide
you
with personal info, such as real name, what they do for a living,
where
they went to school, where they live, what their marital status is
etc.

It is funny you bring up a topic on shotguns, then decide it isn't
fair
game for discussion, but you want to know personal information on
everyone in rec.boats.








--
John H

"It's *not* a baby kicking, beautiful bride, it's only a fetus!"

A Famous Hypocrite

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:06:54 -0500, "Bert Robbins" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:30:29 -0500, Harry Krause

wrote:

John H. wrote:
Harry, I know you've already seen this, but it's worth a double
reading!



On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:11:16 -0500, "Sir Rodney Smithers" Ask me
about
my
knighthood. wrote:



Sorry, John, but when you start drooling Smitherscum, I usually just
make the message read without reading it and move on.

No comment on Ann Richards, your Democrat governor of Texas who executes
the innocent, Harry? Hell, I figured you'd jump right on that!

Just proves that Harry is nothing more than a partisan hack as well as
most
of the Progressives and Liberals.


Did you notice how quickly they tucked tails and ran from that thread?

Speaking of partisan hacks and "progressives", what happend to Chuckie. Did
he take his keyboard and run home crying?


No, unlike you I have a life away from the computer.

I've been in Argentina, where, (unlike you), I even went boating.

Thanks for thinking of me while ****ing, moaning, OT trolling and
flaming. Shows you for who and what you are. Pretty tough to justify
your load of crap with "retaliation", isn't it? :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:06:54 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:30:29 -0500, Harry Krause

wrote:

John H. wrote:
Harry, I know you've already seen this, but it's worth a double
reading!



On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:11:16 -0500, "Sir Rodney Smithers" Ask me
about
my
knighthood. wrote:



Sorry, John, but when you start drooling Smitherscum, I usually just
make the message read without reading it and move on.

No comment on Ann Richards, your Democrat governor of Texas who
executes
the innocent, Harry? Hell, I figured you'd jump right on that!

Just proves that Harry is nothing more than a partisan hack as well as
most
of the Progressives and Liberals.


Did you notice how quickly they tucked tails and ran from that thread?

Speaking of partisan hacks and "progressives", what happend to Chuckie.
Did
he take his keyboard and run home crying?


No, unlike you I have a life away from the computer.

I've been in Argentina, where, (unlike you), I even went boating.

Thanks for thinking of me while ****ing, moaning, OT trolling and
flaming. Shows you for who and what you are. Pretty tough to justify
your load of crap with "retaliation", isn't it? :-)

Chuck,

Glad you are back safely. You buddy Harry has been having a rough time this
weekend and could use some consoling.

Chuck,
Glad you had a nice trip. Was this a business trip or a vacation, or the
best kind a business trip where the company paid for expenses and you spent
all your time on vacation. ; )


wrote in message
oups.com...

Bert Robbins wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:06:54 -0500, "Bert Robbins"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:30:29 -0500, Harry Krause

wrote:

John H. wrote:
Harry, I know you've already seen this, but it's worth a double
reading!



On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:11:16 -0500, "Sir Rodney Smithers" Ask me
about
my
knighthood. wrote:



Sorry, John, but when you start drooling Smitherscum, I usually just
make the message read without reading it and move on.

No comment on Ann Richards, your Democrat governor of Texas who
executes
the innocent, Harry? Hell, I figured you'd jump right on that!

Just proves that Harry is nothing more than a partisan hack as well as
most
of the Progressives and Liberals.


Did you notice how quickly they tucked tails and ran from that thread?

Speaking of partisan hacks and "progressives", what happend to Chuckie.
Did
he take his keyboard and run home crying?


No, unlike you I have a life away from the computer.

I've been in Argentina, where, (unlike you), I even went boating.

Thanks for thinking of me while ****ing, moaning, OT trolling and
flaming. Shows you for who and what you are. Pretty tough to justify
your load of crap with "retaliation", isn't it? :-)

Bert Robbins wrote:

Chuck,

Glad you are back safely. You buddy Harry has been having a rough time this
weekend and could use some consoling.



Oh my! Bert sure turned his tail under now that Chuck's back. That was
funny.

Sir Rodney Smithers wrote:
Chuck,
Glad you had a nice trip. Was this a business trip or a vacation, or the
best kind a business trip where the company paid for expenses and you spent
all your time on vacation. ; )


The Mrs. and I celebrated our 35th wedding anniversary in Buenos Aires.
Pleasure trip.
Great place to go in the winter. The weather down there right now is
about like Los Angeles in late May. Everything is in bloom, shirtsleeve
weather every day.
It's ridiculously cheap. Most things are priced (in pesos) at a number
that would make sense espressed in dollars, or less! Example: Dinner in
a very nice restarurant with appetizers, 4 glasses of wine, duck a
l'orange, 3-inch thick filet mignon, and two deserts. 100 (pesos)
including a generous tip. Cost in dollars? Just over 30 bucks.

Took the Tren de la Costa up to Tigre' one day and enjoyed a nice
boatride on what just might be the most polluted river in the western
hemisphere. A non-stop parade of garbage floating by. Wow. Not prepared
for that. Smelled awful, as well. There's a mjor amusement park built
on the shore of the river- and while we didn't bother venturing in it
seemed like an odd place to go for recreation.

Since this is a short summary to rec.boats, I can't avoid mentioning
politics. :-)
Argentina has had a lot of political turmoil over the years. The last
time somebody attempted a coup, they apparently decided to use the
subway to attack the Casa Rosada
(Argentine "pink house", head of the executive branch of govt. This is
the building where Evita Peron used to stand on a balcony and address
the crowds in the Plaza de Mayo). Across the street from Cassa Rosada
is the Minstry of Economics, with a marble facade just behind the exit
from the subway. It's riddled with pockmarks from machine gun fire. I
guess the govt decided not to repair the marble as a "reminder" to the
next batch of rebels that sneaking up on the Casa Rosada through the
subway ain't exactly a bright idea.

It's a place where abject poverty and incredible privilege are elbow to
elbow at all times.
We befriended the owner of a business who moved to Argentina from Los
Angeles a few years ago. One of his associates (who spends several
months a year in Miami- where he owns an art gallery), has a penthouse
with, supposedly, over $5mm US in furnishings and art. Down on the
street below, and on every street in Buenos Aires, the major source of
income for a lot of people is sorting garbage. The shops and apartments
pile all of their garbage along the curb every night for an early
morning pickup. The people descend on the garbage like an army of ants,
sorting out glass, cardboard, aluminum, or anything else that can be
recylced. They pile bicycles, carts, wheelbarrows, and enything else
that will roll to incredible heights with bundled up recyclables. Young
kids 5, 6, and 7 years old are scrounging through the garbage along
with their older sibliings and parents.
I know that more than a few are actullay hoping to find something to
eat, as one little kid came across a sack of half-eaten rolls from a
restaurant and you would have thought he'd found a rond trip ticket to
Disneyland.

On one of our cross town train trips, (cost under a peso for a
40-minute ride), we noted a group of "huts" in a depression next to the
track. Cardboard, sheet metal, scrap wood, canvas, you name it- any
sort of junk material imaginable had been employed in creating these
rude shelters. These weren't temporary "homeless" camps, there was
laundry hanging on lines, little kids playing in the dirt, etc. After a
few hundred yards of "huts", we came to a fence running perpendicular
to the track. On the opposite side of the fence were some tennis
courts, and what appeared to be a very exclusive tennis club. Waiters
standing around serving drinks, etc, to tennis players in crisp, white
shorts and tennis shirts. The whole place underscores the importance of
sustaining a viable middle class and illustrates what can happen when
any group is allowed to prosper at the complete expense and without
regard to its fellow citizens.

Argentina is rich in natural resources and if it ever gets past all of
its political and economic problems it could become a very powerful
country in the future.

Tax deductible?

I do hope to write the entire thing off as journalistic research. I
needed to confirm which direction the water circles around a bathtub
drain in the southern hemisphere. (Clockwise, at least at the Kempinski
Park Chateau in Buenos Aires). :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...

The whole place underscores the importance of
sustaining a viable middle class and illustrates what can happen when
any group is allowed to prosper at the complete expense and without
regard to its fellow citizens.



Tax deductible?

I do hope to write the entire thing off as journalistic research.

So by stiffing the government out of taxes, are you prospering at the
expense and without regard to your fellow citizens?

NOYB wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

The whole place underscores the importance of
sustaining a viable middle class and illustrates what can happen when
any group is allowed to prosper at the complete expense and without
regard to its fellow citizens.



Tax deductible?

I do hope to write the entire thing off as journalistic research.

So by stiffing the government out of taxes, are you prospering at the
expense and without regard to your fellow citizens?


That bulge in the side of my face isn't an absessed tooth, Doc. It's my
tongue in my cheek. Lighten up, already. :-)

wrote in message
oups.com...

Sir Rodney Smithers wrote:
Chuck,
Glad you had a nice trip. Was this a business trip or a vacation, or the
best kind a business trip where the company paid for expenses and you
spent
all your time on vacation. ; )


The Mrs. and I celebrated our 35th wedding anniversary in Buenos Aires.
Pleasure trip.
Great place to go in the winter. The weather down there right now is
about like Los Angeles in late May. Everything is in bloom, shirtsleeve
weather every day.
It's ridiculously cheap. Most things are priced (in pesos) at a number
that would make sense espressed in dollars, or less! Example: Dinner in
a very nice restarurant with appetizers, 4 glasses of wine, duck a
l'orange, 3-inch thick filet mignon, and two deserts. 100 (pesos)
including a generous tip. Cost in dollars? Just over 30 bucks.

Took the Tren de la Costa up to Tigre' one day and enjoyed a nice
boatride on what just might be the most polluted river in the western
hemisphere. A non-stop parade of garbage floating by. Wow. Not prepared
for that. Smelled awful, as well. There's a mjor amusement park built
on the shore of the river- and while we didn't bother venturing in it
seemed like an odd place to go for recreation.

Since this is a short summary to rec.boats, I can't avoid mentioning
politics. :-)
Argentina has had a lot of political turmoil over the years. The last
time somebody attempted a coup, they apparently decided to use the
subway to attack the Casa Rosada
(Argentine "pink house", head of the executive branch of govt. This is
the building where Evita Peron used to stand on a balcony and address
the crowds in the Plaza de Mayo). Across the street from Cassa Rosada
is the Minstry of Economics, with a marble facade just behind the exit
from the subway. It's riddled with pockmarks from machine gun fire. I
guess the govt decided not to repair the marble as a "reminder" to the
next batch of rebels that sneaking up on the Casa Rosada through the
subway ain't exactly a bright idea.

It's a place where abject poverty and incredible privilege are elbow to
elbow at all times.
We befriended the owner of a business who moved to Argentina from Los
Angeles a few years ago. One of his associates (who spends several
months a year in Miami- where he owns an art gallery), has a penthouse
with, supposedly, over $5mm US in furnishings and art. Down on the
street below, and on every street in Buenos Aires, the major source of
income for a lot of people is sorting garbage. The shops and apartments
pile all of their garbage along the curb every night for an early
morning pickup. The people descend on the garbage like an army of ants,
sorting out glass, cardboard, aluminum, or anything else that can be
recylced. They pile bicycles, carts, wheelbarrows, and enything else
that will roll to incredible heights with bundled up recyclables. Young
kids 5, 6, and 7 years old are scrounging through the garbage along
with their older sibliings and parents.
I know that more than a few are actullay hoping to find something to
eat, as one little kid came across a sack of half-eaten rolls from a
restaurant and you would have thought he'd found a rond trip ticket to
Disneyland.

On one of our cross town train trips, (cost under a peso for a
40-minute ride), we noted a group of "huts" in a depression next to the
track. Cardboard, sheet metal, scrap wood, canvas, you name it- any
sort of junk material imaginable had been employed in creating these
rude shelters. These weren't temporary "homeless" camps, there was
laundry hanging on lines, little kids playing in the dirt, etc. After a
few hundred yards of "huts", we came to a fence running perpendicular
to the track. On the opposite side of the fence were some tennis
courts, and what appeared to be a very exclusive tennis club. Waiters
standing around serving drinks, etc, to tennis players in crisp, white
shorts and tennis shirts. The whole place underscores the importance of
sustaining a viable middle class and illustrates what can happen when
any group is allowed to prosper at the complete expense and without
regard to its fellow citizens.

Argentina is rich in natural resources and if it ever gets past all of
its political and economic problems it could become a very powerful
country in the future.

Tax deductible?

I do hope to write the entire thing off as journalistic research. I
needed to confirm which direction the water circles around a bathtub
drain in the southern hemisphere. (Clockwise, at least at the Kempinski
Park Chateau in Buenos Aires). :-)


Welcome back. Glad to hear you had a great time with your wife.

Congratulations also on 35 years. Quite and accomplishment Chuck.

" *JimH*" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
oups.com...

Sir Rodney Smithers wrote:
Chuck,
Glad you had a nice trip. Was this a business trip or a vacation, or
the
best kind a business trip where the company paid for expenses and you
spent
all your time on vacation. ; )


The Mrs. and I celebrated our 35th wedding anniversary in Buenos Aires.
Pleasure trip.
Great place to go in the winter. The weather down there right now is
about like Los Angeles in late May. Everything is in bloom, shirtsleeve
weather every day.
It's ridiculously cheap. Most things are priced (in pesos) at a number
that would make sense espressed in dollars, or less! Example: Dinner in
a very nice restarurant with appetizers, 4 glasses of wine, duck a
l'orange, 3-inch thick filet mignon, and two deserts. 100 (pesos)
including a generous tip. Cost in dollars? Just over 30 bucks.

Took the Tren de la Costa up to Tigre' one day and enjoyed a nice
boatride on what just might be the most polluted river in the western
hemisphere. A non-stop parade of garbage floating by. Wow. Not prepared
for that. Smelled awful, as well. There's a mjor amusement park built
on the shore of the river- and while we didn't bother venturing in it
seemed like an odd place to go for recreation.

Since this is a short summary to rec.boats, I can't avoid mentioning
politics. :-)
Argentina has had a lot of political turmoil over the years. The last
time somebody attempted a coup, they apparently decided to use the
subway to attack the Casa Rosada
(Argentine "pink house", head of the executive branch of govt. This is
the building where Evita Peron used to stand on a balcony and address
the crowds in the Plaza de Mayo). Across the street from Cassa Rosada
is the Minstry of Economics, with a marble facade just behind the exit
from the subway. It's riddled with pockmarks from machine gun fire. I
guess the govt decided not to repair the marble as a "reminder" to the
next batch of rebels that sneaking up on the Casa Rosada through the
subway ain't exactly a bright idea.

It's a place where abject poverty and incredible privilege are elbow to
elbow at all times.
We befriended the owner of a business who moved to Argentina from Los
Angeles a few years ago. One of his associates (who spends several
months a year in Miami- where he owns an art gallery), has a penthouse
with, supposedly, over $5mm US in furnishings and art. Down on the
street below, and on every street in Buenos Aires, the major source of
income for a lot of people is sorting garbage. The shops and apartments
pile all of their garbage along the curb every night for an early
morning pickup. The people descend on the garbage like an army of ants,
sorting out glass, cardboard, aluminum, or anything else that can be
recylced. They pile bicycles, carts, wheelbarrows, and enything else
that will roll to incredible heights with bundled up recyclables. Young
kids 5, 6, and 7 years old are scrounging through the garbage along
with their older sibliings and parents.
I know that more than a few are actullay hoping to find something to
eat, as one little kid came across a sack of half-eaten rolls from a
restaurant and you would have thought he'd found a rond trip ticket to
Disneyland.

On one of our cross town train trips, (cost under a peso for a
40-minute ride), we noted a group of "huts" in a depression next to the
track. Cardboard, sheet metal, scrap wood, canvas, you name it- any
sort of junk material imaginable had been employed in creating these
rude shelters. These weren't temporary "homeless" camps, there was
laundry hanging on lines, little kids playing in the dirt, etc. After a
few hundred yards of "huts", we came to a fence running perpendicular
to the track. On the opposite side of the fence were some tennis
courts, and what appeared to be a very exclusive tennis club. Waiters
standing around serving drinks, etc, to tennis players in crisp, white
shorts and tennis shirts. The whole place underscores the importance of
sustaining a viable middle class and illustrates what can happen when
any group is allowed to prosper at the complete expense and without
regard to its fellow citizens.

Argentina is rich in natural resources and if it ever gets past all of
its political and economic problems it could become a very powerful
country in the future.

Tax deductible?

I do hope to write the entire thing off as journalistic research. I
needed to confirm which direction the water circles around a bathtub
drain in the southern hemisphere. (Clockwise, at least at the Kempinski
Park Chateau in Buenos Aires). :-)


Welcome back. Glad to hear you had a great time with your wife.

Congratulations also on 35 years. Quite and accomplishment Chuck.

Argentina sounds a lot like what I saw in Peru.