Bill,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

But, all diesel fuel injection systems are mechanical. They are also
hydraulic. New systems use digitial electronics to more perfectly control
the hydraulic/mechanical action to more perfectly inject the precise
quantity of fuel required at the precise time it is required. This serves
to more completely burn the fuel and to eliminate the unburned hydrocarbons
so problematic with older poorly maintained systems. The byproduct of these
improved systems is vastly improved fuel economy and improved longevity of
engine upper deck components.

I continue to advocate recycling used diesel engine lube oil as fuel.

YMMV.

Butch
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
But weren't these mostly mechanical fuel injection?

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Lots of opinions with little in the way of facts.

The practice of burning used diesel engine crankcase oil as fuel has been
popular with fleet users for many years. The main caution is that the
oil must not have been contaminated by coolant. The practice will not
void the warranties of any of the major engine manufacturers. The lube
oil is burned completely and, BTW, has a higher BTU content than fuel
oil.

The process should be done carefully in order not to "over oil" the fuel.
Racor, the filter manufacturer, used to sell a system for the purpose. I
bought several for a fleet of large EMD, Cummins, and CAT generators.
The systems made us a lot of money by saving the cost of disposal of used
lube oil and avoiding the cost of thousands of gallons of fuel oil. The
Racor kits were in several sizes to accomodate small to large
applications. I don't know if Racor continues to market the systems.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...

Tamaroak wrote:
I recently read something about adding the used oil from your crankcase
(20 quarts from my engine) to your diesel tanks to burn up, thus saving
the purchase of five gallons of fuel and eliminating the problem of
disposal.

I would be diluting it into 320 gallons of fuel.

Is this common?

Capt. Jeff

Wouldn't have been a problem in older diesels, but I wouldn't do it
with the new high output types, with high pressure fuel delivery, etc

Butch, how do you filter it before adding it to the fuel?

John


"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Bill,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

But, all diesel fuel injection systems are mechanical. They are also
hydraulic. New systems use digitial electronics to more perfectly control
the hydraulic/mechanical action to more perfectly inject the precise
quantity of fuel required at the precise time it is required. This serves
to more completely burn the fuel and to eliminate the unburned
hydrocarbons so problematic with older poorly maintained systems. The
byproduct of these improved systems is vastly improved fuel economy and
improved longevity of engine upper deck components.

I continue to advocate recycling used diesel engine lube oil as fuel.

YMMV.

Butch
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
But weren't these mostly mechanical fuel injection?

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Lots of opinions with little in the way of facts.

The practice of burning used diesel engine crankcase oil as fuel has
been popular with fleet users for many years. The main caution is that
the oil must not have been contaminated by coolant. The practice will
not void the warranties of any of the major engine manufacturers. The
lube oil is burned completely and, BTW, has a higher BTU content than
fuel oil.

The process should be done carefully in order not to "over oil" the
fuel. Racor, the filter manufacturer, used to sell a system for the
purpose. I bought several for a fleet of large EMD, Cummins, and CAT
generators. The systems made us a lot of money by saving the cost of
disposal of used lube oil and avoiding the cost of thousands of gallons
of fuel oil. The Racor kits were in several sizes to accomodate small
to large applications. I don't know if Racor continues to market the
systems.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...

Tamaroak wrote:
I recently read something about adding the used oil from your
crankcase
(20 quarts from my engine) to your diesel tanks to burn up, thus
saving
the purchase of five gallons of fuel and eliminating the problem of
disposal.

I would be diluting it into 320 gallons of fuel.

Is this common?

Capt. Jeff

Wouldn't have been a problem in older diesels, but I wouldn't do it
with the new high output types, with high pressure fuel delivery, etc

All diesel inject is not mechanical. The new engines, like my Duramax or
Eisbocks Ford 6.0 are electronic FI. There is a high pressure, precision
pump that generates the high fuel pressure to a single fuel block, the
single rail. The Electronics pull the solenoid and allow a precise amount
of fuel to inject. My duramax does 3 shots per power stroke. The old
Detroit Diesels, etc had a mechanical piston to inject the fuel. You
adjusted the "Racks" to get the best fuel burn on average. Was to early at
idle, why lots of rattle (pinging) at low RPM's. Probably bigger jets in
the injector also. Only one shot per power stroke. The new pumps will be
close tolerance and smaller holes in the injectors. You would have to save
a lot of money on diesel to pay for the repair of either the pump or the
injector. Lots more for the pump.

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Bill,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

But, all diesel fuel injection systems are mechanical. They are also
hydraulic. New systems use digitial electronics to more perfectly control
the hydraulic/mechanical action to more perfectly inject the precise
quantity of fuel required at the precise time it is required. This serves
to more completely burn the fuel and to eliminate the unburned
hydrocarbons so problematic with older poorly maintained systems. The
byproduct of these improved systems is vastly improved fuel economy and
improved longevity of engine upper deck components.

I continue to advocate recycling used diesel engine lube oil as fuel.

YMMV.

Butch
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
But weren't these mostly mechanical fuel injection?

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Lots of opinions with little in the way of facts.

The practice of burning used diesel engine crankcase oil as fuel has
been popular with fleet users for many years. The main caution is that
the oil must not have been contaminated by coolant. The practice will
not void the warranties of any of the major engine manufacturers. The
lube oil is burned completely and, BTW, has a higher BTU content than
fuel oil.

The process should be done carefully in order not to "over oil" the
fuel. Racor, the filter manufacturer, used to sell a system for the
purpose. I bought several for a fleet of large EMD, Cummins, and CAT
generators. The systems made us a lot of money by saving the cost of
disposal of used lube oil and avoiding the cost of thousands of gallons
of fuel oil. The Racor kits were in several sizes to accomodate small
to large applications. I don't know if Racor continues to market the
systems.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...

Tamaroak wrote:
I recently read something about adding the used oil from your
crankcase
(20 quarts from my engine) to your diesel tanks to burn up, thus
saving
the purchase of five gallons of fuel and eliminating the problem of
disposal.

I would be diluting it into 320 gallons of fuel.

Is this common?

Capt. Jeff

Wouldn't have been a problem in older diesels, but I wouldn't do it
with the new high output types, with high pressure fuel delivery, etc

Many have commented and I would normally would be willing to mix the lub oil
with a high ratio of fuel oil. However, I have always been able to take my
lub oil ashore/home for disposal.

Now I burn all of my waste oil in my shop heater. I have an old Dickenson
cabin heater and when mixed with some diesel, it burns fine.

I'm now building a waste oil heater for my new shop, from a Mother Earth
design. It will only consume about 1 qt/hr and provide about 30k btu. No
diesel required.
In this design, the fuel feed is preheated and the fire will burn hot and
clean without soot or smoke.

Just my thoughts, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions
"Tamaroak" wrote in message
. ..
I recently read something about adding the used oil from your crankcase (20
quarts from my engine) to your diesel tanks to burn up, thus saving the
purchase of five gallons of fuel and eliminating the problem of disposal.

I would be diluting it into 320 gallons of fuel.

Is this common?

Capt. Jeff

"Bill McKee" wrote in
ink.net:

And how much would in cost in fuel filters? Maybe in an old Detroit
Diesel. But not in any new diesel with a high pressure pump.


I have horrible visions of all those nearly invisible metal filings, carbon
particles and other microscopic contaminants grinding away between the fuel
pump pistons and those finely precision holes to .0001" tolerances they
pump so carefully into. Combine the solid contaminants too small to filter
with all the acidic blowby chemistry, the reason we change the oil so often
in a diesel engine, and I'd think it wouldn't take long to simply eat away
at the inside of the amazingly-expensive injection pump, primary pump, and
the tiny nozzles' guts in the cylinders.

Yecch.....all for a few bucks saved on a tank? I suppose if we're going to
do this, we could also slowly dump the electrolyte from those old batteries
in the fuel tank, too, to eat away at it all quicker!

--
Larry

John,

In the fleet application I used Racor's system which included filtration.
On my personal diesel vehicles I simply added the oil directly from the
crankcase to a nearly full fuel tank. My reasoning was that the lube oil
was well filtered by the oil filter and that the after market Racor filter I
always installed in my vehicles' fuel lines would do a good enough job of
removing anything harmful.

The Racor systems were not inexpensive but paid for themselves over time
several times over. If I had a diesel boat I would have a Racor system or
make up an installed one with a pump, some tubing and fittings, a valve or
two, and a filter. Can you imagine an oil change on a boat with no mess, no
oil disposal issues, and improvment to your fuel economy. The only issue
would be the filter change. You could do it just like the pros.

Butch
"johnhh" wrote in message
. ..
Butch, how do you filter it before adding it to the fuel?

John


"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Bill,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

But, all diesel fuel injection systems are mechanical. They are also
hydraulic. New systems use digitial electronics to more perfectly
control the hydraulic/mechanical action to more perfectly inject the
precise quantity of fuel required at the precise time it is required.
This serves to more completely burn the fuel and to eliminate the
unburned hydrocarbons so problematic with older poorly maintained
systems. The byproduct of these improved systems is vastly improved fuel
economy and improved longevity of engine upper deck components.

I continue to advocate recycling used diesel engine lube oil as fuel.

YMMV.

Butch
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
But weren't these mostly mechanical fuel injection?

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Lots of opinions with little in the way of facts.

The practice of burning used diesel engine crankcase oil as fuel has
been popular with fleet users for many years. The main caution is that
the oil must not have been contaminated by coolant. The practice will
not void the warranties of any of the major engine manufacturers. The
lube oil is burned completely and, BTW, has a higher BTU content than
fuel oil.

The process should be done carefully in order not to "over oil" the
fuel. Racor, the filter manufacturer, used to sell a system for the
purpose. I bought several for a fleet of large EMD, Cummins, and CAT
generators. The systems made us a lot of money by saving the cost of
disposal of used lube oil and avoiding the cost of thousands of gallons
of fuel oil. The Racor kits were in several sizes to accomodate small
to large applications. I don't know if Racor continues to market the
systems.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...

Tamaroak wrote:
I recently read something about adding the used oil from your
crankcase
(20 quarts from my engine) to your diesel tanks to burn up, thus
saving
the purchase of five gallons of fuel and eliminating the problem of
disposal.

I would be diluting it into 320 gallons of fuel.

Is this common?

Capt. Jeff

Wouldn't have been a problem in older diesels, but I wouldn't do it
with the new high output types, with high pressure fuel delivery, etc

Bill,

I understand. IMO, the system you're talking about is a system I first saw
used on CAT diesels. I attended a CAT school in Peoria on the system and am
familiar with it in an earlier generation. By my definition the system is
hydromechanical with electronic control. The digital system decides when
and for how long to actuate the solenoid which permits the already
pressurized fuel to flow through the injector to be atomized and burned.
BTW, virtually all high pressure diesel pumps are precision pumps.

Detroits and EMDs were the only engines in my experience that used the rack
control and unit injector system. Cummins used the PT system and CAT used
an injector pump operated by a cam which pressurized the fuel in a timed
fashion until the pressure required to cause the injector to "pop off" was
reached. Roosamaster (Stanadyne (sp?)) used a distributor type rotary pump
with injectors similar to the CAT pop off injectors.

YMMV.

Butch
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
news
All diesel inject is not mechanical. The new engines, like my Duramax or
Eisbocks Ford 6.0 are electronic FI. There is a high pressure, precision
pump that generates the high fuel pressure to a single fuel block, the
single rail. The Electronics pull the solenoid and allow a precise amount
of fuel to inject. My duramax does 3 shots per power stroke. The old
Detroit Diesels, etc had a mechanical piston to inject the fuel. You
adjusted the "Racks" to get the best fuel burn on average. Was to early
at idle, why lots of rattle (pinging) at low RPM's. Probably bigger jets
in the injector also. Only one shot per power stroke. The new pumps will
be close tolerance and smaller holes in the injectors. You would have to
save a lot of money on diesel to pay for the repair of either the pump or
the injector. Lots more for the pump.

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Bill,

I'm not sure I understand your question.

But, all diesel fuel injection systems are mechanical. They are also
hydraulic. New systems use digitial electronics to more perfectly
control the hydraulic/mechanical action to more perfectly inject the
precise quantity of fuel required at the precise time it is required.
This serves to more completely burn the fuel and to eliminate the
unburned hydrocarbons so problematic with older poorly maintained
systems. The byproduct of these improved systems is vastly improved fuel
economy and improved longevity of engine upper deck components.

I continue to advocate recycling used diesel engine lube oil as fuel.

YMMV.

Butch
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
But weren't these mostly mechanical fuel injection?

"Butch Davis" wrote in message
ink.net...
Lots of opinions with little in the way of facts.

The practice of burning used diesel engine crankcase oil as fuel has
been popular with fleet users for many years. The main caution is that
the oil must not have been contaminated by coolant. The practice will
not void the warranties of any of the major engine manufacturers. The
lube oil is burned completely and, BTW, has a higher BTU content than
fuel oil.

The process should be done carefully in order not to "over oil" the
fuel. Racor, the filter manufacturer, used to sell a system for the
purpose. I bought several for a fleet of large EMD, Cummins, and CAT
generators. The systems made us a lot of money by saving the cost of
disposal of used lube oil and avoiding the cost of thousands of gallons
of fuel oil. The Racor kits were in several sizes to accomodate small
to large applications. I don't know if Racor continues to market the
systems.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...

Tamaroak wrote:
I recently read something about adding the used oil from your
crankcase
(20 quarts from my engine) to your diesel tanks to burn up, thus
saving
the purchase of five gallons of fuel and eliminating the problem of
disposal.

I would be diluting it into 320 gallons of fuel.

Is this common?

Capt. Jeff

Wouldn't have been a problem in older diesels, but I wouldn't do it
with the new high output types, with high pressure fuel delivery, etc

Larry,

No offense but your concerns are misplaced. Of course the great thing about
our country is that YOU get to decide based upon your beliefs. But, would
large fleet managers recycle lube oil into fuel tanks if it was costing them
money? The systems used for the purpose include complete and adaquate
filtration.

This debate comes along from time to time in this group. Most folks are
horrified with the idea and would not do it for love nor $$$. I just happen
to be one of a few folks on the group who spent a lifetime operating and
maintaining diesel engines in a fleet setting. I've had a lot of training
in the field and have attended all major manufacturer's training schools.
I've followed the practice for many years and have not had any unusual
injector nor pump failures.

I guess I've said waaay more than enough on the subject. As stated earlier,
YMMV.

Butch
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in
ink.net:

And how much would in cost in fuel filters? Maybe in an old Detroit
Diesel. But not in any new diesel with a high pressure pump.


I have horrible visions of all those nearly invisible metal filings,
carbon
particles and other microscopic contaminants grinding away between the
fuel
pump pistons and those finely precision holes to .0001" tolerances they
pump so carefully into. Combine the solid contaminants too small to
filter
with all the acidic blowby chemistry, the reason we change the oil so
often
in a diesel engine, and I'd think it wouldn't take long to simply eat away
at the inside of the amazingly-expensive injection pump, primary pump, and
the tiny nozzles' guts in the cylinders.

Yecch.....all for a few bucks saved on a tank? I suppose if we're going
to
do this, we could also slowly dump the electrolyte from those old
batteries
in the fuel tank, too, to eat away at it all quicker!

--
Larry

In article ,
"johnhh" wrote:

Butch, how do you filter it before adding it to the fuel?

John



The correct way is to run the used BaseOil thru a Centrifuge first, then
thru a 2 micron filter. We have this system in our 2.5 Megawatt
Powerhouse, and burn the resulting lubeoil in a Waste Oil Burner/Heater
in the Port Engineers shop. The residue that comes out of the
centrifuge is Classed as Hazardous Material, and we ship it to a
recycler.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:55:52 -0500, Larry wrote:

"Bill McKee" wrote in
link.net:

And how much would in cost in fuel filters? Maybe in an old Detroit
Diesel. But not in any new diesel with a high pressure pump.


I have horrible visions of all those nearly invisible metal filings, carbon
particles and other microscopic contaminants grinding away between the fuel
pump pistons and those finely precision holes to .0001" tolerances they
pump so carefully into. Combine the solid contaminants too small to filter
with all the acidic blowby chemistry, the reason we change the oil so often
in a diesel engine, and I'd think it wouldn't take long to simply eat away
at the inside of the amazingly-expensive injection pump, primary pump, and
the tiny nozzles' guts in the cylinders.

Yecch.....all for a few bucks saved on a tank? I suppose if we're going to
do this, we could also slowly dump the electrolyte from those old batteries
in the fuel tank, too, to eat away at it all quicker!


That is the central problem, I expect. One's lurid imagination about
graphic consequences. How did you feel when you first heard about
the new-fangled military technique for decoking gas turbines used in
helicopters - namely, throwing a basket full of chopped walnut shells
into the air intake?

Brian Whatcott Altus OK