Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Bill McKee wrote:
I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same direction
traffic.


Hey Bill.
Here it is for you ins very simple terms

A boat is NOT a car.

DSK

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Bill McKee wrote:
I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same
direction traffic.

Hey Bill.
Here it is for you ins very simple terms

A boat is NOT a car.

DSK


But passing is passing. And a car can be a boat. Both the Amphicar, and a
couple models lately out of Cuba, and did you ever see a 1957 Buick?

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

At this point, you've made it quite obvious that you are a clueless feeb
who is never going to get a clue, no matter how patiently it is
explained to you. But for the benefit of others, I'm going to go just a
bit further here.


A boat is NOT a car.


Bill McKee wrote:
But passing is passing.

No, it is not. If you would drive a boat at 60 mph just a few feet from
another boat... or any object in the water... then you should be
physically restrained from operating a boat since you are a deadly
hazard to yourself and others.

Are cars affected by wakes? Currents? Leeway? Do boats have brakes?

Suppose you "pass" another boat, just as you wuould in a car, at the
same moment a wake strikes that other boat and causes it to slew 20
degrees momentarily? Or just when your own boat meets a wake?

If you overtake another vessel in such a way that you cannot avoid that
vessel if his boat turns, or rolls, or side-slips, or has some minor
equipment failure, the *you* have acted dangerously and incompetently.

DSK

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

DSK you are a pompus ass.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
At this point, you've made it quite obvious that you are a clueless feeb
who is never going to get a clue, no matter how patiently it is explained
to you. But for the benefit of others, I'm going to go just a bit further
here.


A boat is NOT a car.


Bill McKee wrote:
But passing is passing.

No, it is not. If you would drive a boat at 60 mph just a few feet from
another boat... or any object in the water... then you should be
physically restrained from operating a boat since you are a deadly hazard
to yourself and others.

Are cars affected by wakes? Currents? Leeway? Do boats have brakes?

Suppose you "pass" another boat, just as you wuould in a car, at the same
moment a wake strikes that other boat and causes it to slew 20 degrees
momentarily? Or just when your own boat meets a wake?

If you overtake another vessel in such a way that you cannot avoid that
vessel if his boat turns, or rolls, or side-slips, or has some minor
equipment failure, the *you* have acted dangerously and incompetently.

DSK

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Bill McKee" wrote
I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and
same
direction traffic.

Hey Bill.
Here it is for you ins very simple terms

A boat is NOT a car.

DSK


But passing is passing.


Where Bill boats they have yellow lines painted on the water.
And traffic lights at the intersections.

I really believe he has turn signals on his boat.

SBV

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote
I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and
same
direction traffic.

Hey Bill.
Here it is for you ins very simple terms

A boat is NOT a car.

DSK


But passing is passing.


Where Bill boats they have yellow lines painted on the water.
And traffic lights at the intersections.

I really believe he has turn signals on his boat.

SBV


Actually some of the lakes in the USA have buoys defining the lanes of
travel, and all boats have to go in the same direction on the same side of
the buoys. And I guess a Hoby Cat can turn which ever direction he wants at
any time he wants, without penalty of he hits another boat?

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
At this point, you've made it quite obvious that you are a clueless feeb
who is never going to get a clue, no matter how patiently it is explained
to you. But for the benefit of others, I'm going to go just a bit further
here.


A boat is NOT a car.


Bill McKee wrote:
But passing is passing.

No, it is not. If you would drive a boat at 60 mph just a few feet from
another boat... or any object in the water... then you should be
physically restrained from operating a boat since you are a deadly hazard
to yourself and others.

Are cars affected by wakes? Currents? Leeway? Do boats have brakes?

Suppose you "pass" another boat, just as you wuould in a car, at the same
moment a wake strikes that other boat and causes it to slew 20 degrees
momentarily? Or just when your own boat meets a wake?

If you overtake another vessel in such a way that you cannot avoid that
vessel if his boat turns, or rolls, or side-slips, or has some minor
equipment failure, the *you* have acted dangerously and incompetently.

DSK



You have minor or major equipment failure, you are responsible for the
damage. You should maintain your boat better. If you are lucky, you only
run into rocks or the bank, not into a swimming area. And you are supposed
to look before you turn. Being an sailboater, does not relieve you for
responsibility.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Bill McKee wrote:
You have minor or major equipment failure, you are responsible for the
damage.

A boat which is collided with by another boat that was passing too close
& too fast might share a small percent of responsibility for the damage.
Admiralty courts rarely award 100% of the responsibility to one party.
However the operator of the vessel passing ("overtaking" is the accepted
nautical term, you should learn it) too close & too fast to avoid a
collision is clearly the one bearing most of the blame.


... You should maintain your boat better.

I maintain my boat perfectly.

You should learn the rules which apply to driving BOATS, starting with
the idea that they are not cars.


.... Being an sailboater, does not relieve you for
responsibility.

Being a clueless motorhead does not relieve you (or any of your ilk) of
the responsibility for safe operation of your boat.

DSK

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Bill McKee" wrote
A boat is a car..


Where Bill boats they have yellow lines painted on the water.
And traffic lights at the intersections.

I really believe he has turn signals on his boat.

SBV


Actually some of the lakes in the USA have buoys defining the
lanes of
travel, and all boats have to go in the same direction on the
same side of
the buoys. And I guess a Hoby Cat can turn which ever
direction he wants at
any time he wants, without penalty of he hits another boat?


So it was a Hobie Cat you were bearing down on at 25MPH.

Were you trying to get revenge because of this;
http://www.thebeachcats.com/OnTheWir...Repellent.html

SBV

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote
A boat is a car..


Where Bill boats they have yellow lines painted on the water.
And traffic lights at the intersections.

I really believe he has turn signals on his boat.

SBV


Actually some of the lakes in the USA have buoys defining the
lanes of
travel, and all boats have to go in the same direction on the
same side of
the buoys. And I guess a Hoby Cat can turn which ever
direction he wants at
any time he wants, without penalty of he hits another boat?


So it was a Hobie Cat you were bearing down on at 25MPH.

Were you trying to get revenge because of this;
http://www.thebeachcats.com/OnTheWir...Repellent.html

SBV



No, it was a 25' sailboat under power. A powerboat. They then raised
sails, while motor is still running and made a 90 degree turn in front of
me. Still a powerboat. And I guess DSK would argue that it is a sailboat
at all times.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

BTW would you mind not crossposting quite so much?

Bill McKee wrote:
No, it was a 25' sailboat under power. A powerboat. They then raised
sails, while motor is still running and made a 90 degree turn in front of
me. Still a powerboat. And I guess DSK would argue that it is a sailboat
at all times.


I guess you have to make my statements for me, since you have no answer
for the ones I actually make myself.

If the sailboat was being propelled by a motor, then they have to obey
the rules as a motorboat.

That does not excuse you from passing too close & too fast.

And, if you knew 1/2 as much about sailing as you think you know, it
would have been easy to see that they were preparing to raise their
sails, which usually is done while turned head-to-wind. They should have
checked for traffic first.

You are *still* not excused from passing too close & too fast.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Bill McKee wrote:



No, it was a 25' sailboat under power. A powerboat. They then raised
sails, while motor is still running and made a 90 degree turn in front of
me. Still a powerboat. And I guess DSK would argue that it is a sailboat
at all times.


How long are you gonna beat this dead horse? You should have raised
the sailboat on VHF...bet you could have talked him to death.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
BTW would you mind not crossposting quite so much?

Bill McKee wrote:
No, it was a 25' sailboat under power. A powerboat. They then raised
sails, while motor is still running and made a 90 degree turn in front of
me. Still a powerboat. And I guess DSK would argue that it is a
sailboat at all times.


I guess you have to make my statements for me, since you have no answer
for the ones I actually make myself.

If the sailboat was being propelled by a motor, then they have to obey the
rules as a motorboat.

That does not excuse you from passing too close & too fast.

And, if you knew 1/2 as much about sailing as you think you know, it would
have been easy to see that they were preparing to raise their sails, which
usually is done while turned head-to-wind. They should have checked for
traffic first.

You are *still* not excused from passing too close & too fast.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


I just reply to the groups you poast to.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:



No, it was a 25' sailboat under power. A powerboat. They then raised
sails, while motor is still running and made a 90 degree turn in front of
me. Still a powerboat. And I guess DSK would argue that it is a
sailboat at all times.

How long are you gonna beat this dead horse? You should have raised the
sailboat on VHF...bet you could have talked him to death.

Seems as if you and yours are beating it to death. If there was time to
raise him on the VHF, we would have been a lot further apart when he turned.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Is there any chance of declaring a cease-fire on this thread, or at least
consigning it to newsgroups other than rec.boats.building?

It has had nothing to do with boat-building for the last 100 or so
acrimonious, ad-hominem entries.

Please allow us to get back to our usual squabbles over wood versus
fiberglass. (g)

Seems as if you and yours are beating it to death.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article , DSK
wrote:

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
JimC,
If there is a collision and both boats could have avoided the collision,
both boats can be held partially reasonable. If the sailboat in a passing
situation turns in front of another boat and it is not reasonable for the
other boater to avoid the collision, the powerboater will not be held
responsible.


Do you realize that your two statements are a direct contradiction of
each other?

Jim Carter wrote:
Dr. Smithers, the first part of your statement is absolutely correct. The
second part of your statement is incorrect in as much as there is no such
thing as it being "not reasonable" for the powerboater to avoid the
collision in the way Bill has described the situation. In this case it
would have been the fault of Bill's judgement. He was too close and too
fast in the situation. He MUST stay clear in the overtaking situation.


But to most motorboaters, it is unreasonable to slow down and give other
boats a wide berth. They have a RIGHT to go blasting right past any
sailboat, close aboard, and by golly that durn sailboat better just stay
outta their way!

This is just the flipside of Donal's opinion that freighters in fog
need to keep out of the way of his sailboat, and mount a visual lookout
to ensure they comply.....

PDW

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote in
:

proper to pass within 15 feet of boats doing 25 MPH shouldn't be out
there.


It's 50 ft in South Carolina...just like for a dock. 200' from the
marina.

--
Larry

I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same direction
traffic.

What does this have to your dangerous overtaking practice? Nothing.

It's damn obvious that you don't understand the Colregs and have no
intention of accepting that you are *wrong*.

PDW

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Don White" wrote in message
...
Bill McKee wrote:



No, it was a 25' sailboat under power. A powerboat. They then raised
sails, while motor is still running and made a 90 degree turn in front of
me. Still a powerboat. And I guess DSK would argue that it is a
sailboat at all times.

How long are you gonna beat this dead horse? You should have raised the
sailboat on VHF...bet you could have talked him to death.

Seems as if you and yours are beating it to death. If there was time to
raise him on the VHF, we would have been a lot further apart when he turned.

Yeah, and if you hadn't instituted a dangerously close overtaking
manoeuvre, there would have been plenty of time and there wouldn't have
been a problem.

Have you got the idea yet? You were wrong.

PDW

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote in
:

proper to pass within 15 feet of boats doing 25 MPH shouldn't be out
there.


It's 50 ft in South Carolina...just like for a dock. 200' from the
marina.

--
Larry

I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same
direction
traffic.

What does this have to your dangerous overtaking practice? Nothing.

It's damn obvious that you don't understand the Colregs and have no
intention of accepting that you are *wrong*.

PDW

I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was also
a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its motor
running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You have to
not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to continue in
the same direction. 17, a, i .

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also
a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its motor
running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You have
to
not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to continue in
the same direction. 17, a, i .

Bill. A sailboat is still a sailboat, even if the motor is running. It
has to be in gear with the propulsion machinery in motion to be classified
as a power boat. There are many reasons for a sailboat to have the motor
running and not in gear. Recharging batteries, running a motor driven pump
or other on board device not pertaining to the propulsion of the vessel.

You are still at fault for being too fast and too close if you collide with
the sailboat. Do you not have enough brain power to comprehend this?

Jim C.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Whether you are wrong in the passing situation is debatable. What is not
debatable is the alienation you've achieved on this boat building
group/list.

That said, you might check some of the many books on maritime law. It's
quite different from that administered on land. Among other things, it
assigns blame (costs) as a function of the degree of guilt. It's not the
winner take all game played on land.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the mandatory sound signals involved in
a crossing (including overtaking) situation. Until communications are
established, one should assume nothing about the "burdened" vessel.

How does the old Burma Shave jingle go? "He was right, dead right as he
sped along. Now he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong."

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote in
:

proper to pass within 15 feet of boats doing 25 MPH shouldn't be out
there.


It's 50 ft in South Carolina...just like for a dock. 200' from the
marina.

--
Larry

I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same
direction
traffic.

What does this have to your dangerous overtaking practice? Nothing.

It's damn obvious that you don't understand the Colregs and have no
intention of accepting that you are *wrong*.

PDW

I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its
motor running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You
have to not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to
continue in the same direction. 17, a, i .

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also
a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its motor
running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You have
to
not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to continue
in
the same direction. 17, a, i .

Bill. A sailboat is still a sailboat, even if the motor is running. It
has to be in gear with the propulsion machinery in motion to be classified
as a power boat. There are many reasons for a sailboat to have the motor
running and not in gear. Recharging batteries, running a motor driven
pump
or other on board device not pertaining to the propulsion of the vessel.

You are still at fault for being too fast and too close if you collide
with
the sailboat. Do you not have enough brain power to comprehend this?

Jim C.



He was not a sailboat. Motor running, not a sailboat. If I put up a little
sail, and go along at 50 miles per hour in a gofast boat, and kick it in to
neutral just before I ram another boat, it is ok? I am now a sail boat.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Roger Derby" wrote in message
ink.net...
Whether you are wrong in the passing situation is debatable. What is not
debatable is the alienation you've achieved on this boat building
group/list.

That said, you might check some of the many books on maritime law. It's
quite different from that administered on land. Among other things, it
assigns blame (costs) as a function of the degree of guilt. It's not the
winner take all game played on land.

I'm surprised no one has brought up the mandatory sound signals involved
in a crossing (including overtaking) situation. Until communications are
established, one should assume nothing about the "burdened" vessel.

How does the old Burma Shave jingle go? "He was right, dead right as he
sped along. Now he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong."

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote in
:

proper to pass within 15 feet of boats doing 25 MPH shouldn't be out
there.


It's 50 ft in South Carolina...just like for a dock. 200' from the
marina.

--
Larry

I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same
direction
traffic.

What does this have to your dangerous overtaking practice? Nothing.

It's damn obvious that you don't understand the Colregs and have no
intention of accepting that you are *wrong*.

PDW

I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its
motor running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You
have to not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to
continue in the same direction. 17, a, i .


Then you clip the distribution list. I only reply all.

For Bill McKee
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also
a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its
motor
running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You
have
to
not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to continue
in
the same direction. 17, a, i .

Bill. A sailboat is still a sailboat, even if the motor is running.
It
has to be in gear with the propulsion machinery in motion to be
classified
as a power boat. There are many reasons for a sailboat to have the
motor
running and not in gear. Recharging batteries, running a motor driven
pump
or other on board device not pertaining to the propulsion of the vessel.

You are still at fault for being too fast and too close if you collide
with
the sailboat. Do you not have enough brain power to comprehend this?

Jim C.



He was not a sailboat. Motor running, not a sailboat. If I put up a
little
sail, and go along at 50 miles per hour in a gofast boat, and kick it in
to
neutral just before I ram another boat, it is ok? I am now a sail boat.

Bill, lets make this real simple so that your little brain can absorb this.

Under the official "Collision Regulations" which some people use the
misnomer "rules of the road" you will find a section os Scedual 1 (sestions
3 & 4 ) Part A-General Rule 3 called "General Definitions" (c )

The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that the
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


Bill, now is the time to get your brain in gear! Do you understand what
was written in the Collision Regulations, that I have provided for you, in
the above? Read it one more time! Notice that it does not mention
anything about the motor running. Notice that it is written "propelling
machinery, if fitted, is not being used." Bill, do you comprehend what
"propelling machinery" is? It is what drives the boat forward. The
propeller! Got that Bill? Do you understand it now. Get this in your
mind. A "sailboat" can have it's engine running, for many different
reasons, and not be driving the "propelling machinery" which is the clutch,
transmission, drive shaft, propeller., etc.,..

Jim C.

For Bill McKee
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
ink.net...
I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was
also
a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its
motor
running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You
have
to
not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to
continue
in
the same direction. 17, a, i .

Bill. A sailboat is still a sailboat, even if the motor is running.
It
has to be in gear with the propulsion machinery in motion to be
classified
as a power boat. There are many reasons for a sailboat to have the
motor
running and not in gear. Recharging batteries, running a motor driven
pump
or other on board device not pertaining to the propulsion of the
vessel.

You are still at fault for being too fast and too close if you collide
with
the sailboat. Do you not have enough brain power to comprehend this?

Jim C.



He was not a sailboat. Motor running, not a sailboat. If I put up a
little
sail, and go along at 50 miles per hour in a gofast boat, and kick it in
to
neutral just before I ram another boat, it is ok? I am now a sail boat.

Bill, lets make this real simple so that your little brain can absorb
this.

Under the official "Collision Regulations" which some people use the
misnomer "rules of the road" you will find a section os Scedual 1
(sestions
3 & 4 ) Part A-General Rule 3 called "General Definitions" (c )

The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that the
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


Bill, now is the time to get your brain in gear! Do you understand what
was written in the Collision Regulations, that I have provided for you,
in
the above? Read it one more time! Notice that it does not mention
anything about the motor running. Notice that it is written "propelling
machinery, if fitted, is not being used." Bill, do you comprehend what
"propelling machinery" is? It is what drives the boat forward. The
propeller! Got that Bill? Do you understand it now. Get this in your
mind. A "sailboat" can have it's engine running, for many different
reasons, and not be driving the "propelling machinery" which is the
clutch,
transmission, drive shaft, propeller., etc.,..

Jim C.



Do you understand that when the sailboats motor is running, it is in use.
Just because it is in neutral, does not negate that it is in use. You
better do a little case law research.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

Nobody but a complete idiot would get within less than one boat length
of another vessel while overtaking, unless it was a narrow channel
where there was no choice, and *then* you'd do it at slow speed. This


I guess most sailboaters are idiot then

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

"Peter Wiley" wrote ...

Nobody but a complete idiot would get within less than one boat length
of another vessel while overtaking, unless it was a narrow channel
where there was no choice, and *then* you'd do it at slow speed.

I generally agree, however there was one occasion when I felt justified passing
within several feet of another boat while on plane. Coming down the Rogue River
there was a drift boat anchored at the head of a pool just below a rapids.
Coming off plane would have meant hitting rocks and possibly the other boat.
Maintaining speed and control allowed safe passage.

-rick-

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Nobody but a complete idiot would get within less than one boat length
of another vessel while overtaking, unless it was a narrow channel
where there was no choice, and *then* you'd do it at slow speed. This
with emphasis when there is a huge relative speed difference. You're
ignoring all the other bits of the Colregs - did you sound the
appropriate signals and get an acknowledgement? No? Were you travelling
at a speed that enabled you to avoid collision in the event of an
unexpected change of course? Only just and that by good luck. There are
a lot of reasons why a sailboat may change course, running into shoal
water being just one of them.

You are dangerously ignorant and a menace to other watercraft. I saw an
idiot just like you the other day go at high speed right between 2
boats drift fishing when he had some 5 nautical miles of width to pick
from. There is no excuse for this sort of behaviour. If I'd been on the
sailboat, I'd have reported you for endangering my vessel.

PDW

In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
In article . net, Bill
McKee wrote:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote in
:

proper to pass within 15 feet of boats doing 25 MPH shouldn't be out
there.


It's 50 ft in South Carolina...just like for a dock. 200' from the
marina.

--
Larry

I guess you never pass on a 2 lane road. Both oncoming and same
direction
traffic.

What does this have to your dangerous overtaking practice? Nothing.

It's damn obvious that you don't understand the Colregs and have no
intention of accepting that you are *wrong*.

PDW

I was not wrong for several reasons. Number one is the other boat was also
a powerboat. Did not matter if it had sails up or not, it had its motor
running. And the road analogy is the same as ColRegs require. You have to
not make unsafe turns. If I am passing, the other boat has to continue in
the same direction. 17, a, i .

For Bill McKee
 

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bill, lets make this real simple so that your little brain can absorb
this.

Under the official "Collision Regulations" which some people use the
misnomer "rules of the road" you will find a section called Schedule 1
(sections 3 & 4 ) Part A-General Rule 3 called "General Definitions"
Rule 3 part # ( c )
The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that the
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


Bill, now is the time to get your brain in gear! Do you understand
what
was written in the Collision Regulations, that I have provided for you,
in
the above? Read it one more time! Notice that it does not mention
anything about the motor running. Notice that it is written "propelling
machinery, if fitted, is not being used." Bill, do you comprehend
what
"propelling machinery" is? It is what drives the boat forward. The
propeller! Got that Bill? Do you understand it now. Get this in
your
mind. A "sailboat" can have it's engine running, for many different
reasons, and not be driving the "propelling machinery" which is the
clutch,
transmission, drive shaft, propeller., etc.,..

Jim C.

Do you understand that when the sailboats motor is running, it is in use.
Just because it is in neutral, does not negate that it is in use. You
better do a little case law research.

Bill, go back and read what is written in the Collision Regulations. I
have tried to make your feeble brain understand what is written, but you are
too dense to comprehend the regulations. Admiralty Law, in this
definition of "sailing vessel" has been set by precedence. Period! There
is no argument with set law! Did you get that Bill? If not, keep
rereading until you can comprehend.

Jim C.

For Bill McKee
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
nk.net...
Bill, lets make this real simple so that your little brain can absorb
this.

Under the official "Collision Regulations" which some people use the
misnomer "rules of the road" you will find a section called Schedule 1
(sections 3 & 4 ) Part A-General Rule 3 called "General Definitions"
Rule 3 part # ( c )
The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that the
propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.


Bill, now is the time to get your brain in gear! Do you understand
what
was written in the Collision Regulations, that I have provided for you,
in
the above? Read it one more time! Notice that it does not mention
anything about the motor running. Notice that it is written
"propelling
machinery, if fitted, is not being used." Bill, do you comprehend
what
"propelling machinery" is? It is what drives the boat forward. The
propeller! Got that Bill? Do you understand it now. Get this in
your
mind. A "sailboat" can have it's engine running, for many different
reasons, and not be driving the "propelling machinery" which is the
clutch,
transmission, drive shaft, propeller., etc.,..

Jim C.

Do you understand that when the sailboats motor is running, it is in use.
Just because it is in neutral, does not negate that it is in use. You
better do a little case law research.

Bill, go back and read what is written in the Collision Regulations. I
have tried to make your feeble brain understand what is written, but you
are
too dense to comprehend the regulations. Admiralty Law, in this
definition of "sailing vessel" has been set by precedence. Period!
There
is no argument with set law! Did you get that Bill? If not, keep
rereading until you can comprehend.

There is always argument with law regardless of whether there is precedent
or "set law", whatever that means.

Too many times I have seen a "sailboat" with a sail kind of half assed up
but the motor is in the water and you can see the propellor's trail and
these idiots think they are "under sail." These are the people that give the
rest of you rag merchants a bad name.

For Bill McKee
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
There is always argument with law regardless of whether there is
precedent
or "set law", whatever that means.

Too many times I have seen a "sailboat" with a sail kind of half assed up
but the motor is in the water and you can see the propellor's trail and
these idiots think they are "under sail." These are the people that give
the
rest of you rag merchants a bad name.

Good morning Bert. Yes, you are correct. A person can argue against the
laws that have been set by precedent. Almost 99.9% of the cases that are
argued against precedent are doomed to failure.

If a sailing vessel has it's sails raised and his propeller is functioning
and driving the boat, then this is a power boat. No argument with that
statement. That sailor actions, as a sailing vessel, would be almost as
stupid as Bill McKee's act of trying to pass a sailing vessel at 25 MPH and
15 feet distance.

Jim C.

Jet Ski overheating problem
 

Bill McKee wrote:
"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

Nobody but a complete idiot would get within less than one boat length
of another vessel while overtaking, unless it was a narrow channel
where there was no choice, and *then* you'd do it at slow speed. This



I guess most sailboaters are idiot then


If you believe that...sell your boat and stay off the water. It's not
safe out there!

For Bill McKee
 

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
There is always argument with law regardless of whether there is
precedent
or "set law", whatever that means.

Too many times I have seen a "sailboat" with a sail kind of half assed up
but the motor is in the water and you can see the propellor's trail and
these idiots think they are "under sail." These are the people that give
the
rest of you rag merchants a bad name.

Good morning Bert. Yes, you are correct. A person can argue against
the
laws that have been set by precedent. Almost 99.9% of the cases that are
argued against precedent are doomed to failure.

If a sailing vessel has it's sails raised and his propeller is functioning
and driving the boat, then this is a power boat. No argument with that
statement. That sailor actions, as a sailing vessel, would be almost as
stupid as Bill McKee's act of trying to pass a sailing vessel at 25 MPH
and
15 feet distance.

15 feet might be a little close but...

....the wake that a power boat on plane produces is smaller and faster, the
sailboat gets a quick nudge when the wake hits the hull.
....the wake of a power boat pushes running a what most people assume to be
no-wake speed will bounce the sail boat around much harsher.

Which wake do you want to encounter?

For Bill McKee
 

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..

"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
There is always argument with law regardless of whether there is
precedent
or "set law", whatever that means.

Too many times I have seen a "sailboat" with a sail kind of half assed
up
but the motor is in the water and you can see the propellor's trail and
these idiots think they are "under sail." These are the people that
give
the
rest of you rag merchants a bad name.

Good morning Bert. Yes, you are correct. A person can argue against
the
laws that have been set by precedent. Almost 99.9% of the cases that
are
argued against precedent are doomed to failure.

If a sailing vessel has it's sails raised and his propeller is
functioning
and driving the boat, then this is a power boat. No argument with that
statement. That sailor actions, as a sailing vessel, would be almost
as
stupid as Bill McKee's act of trying to pass a sailing vessel at 25 MPH
and
15 feet distance.

15 feet might be a little close but...

...the wake that a power boat on plane produces is smaller and faster, the
sailboat gets a quick nudge when the wake hits the hull.
...the wake of a power boat pushes running a what most people assume to be
no-wake speed will bounce the sail boat around much harsher.

Which wake do you want to encounter?

It also depends on the size and displacement of the boat. A small ski type
boat is going to throw up little wake on plane compared to a 35 ft cruiser.

For Bill McKee
 

Jim,
I thought the sailboat was a power boat if the engine was running, even if
the propeller was not engaged.


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
...

"Bert Robbins" wrote in message
. ..
There is always argument with law regardless of whether there is
precedent
or "set law", whatever that means.

Too many times I have seen a "sailboat" with a sail kind of half assed up
but the motor is in the water and you can see the propellor's trail and
these idiots think they are "under sail." These are the people that give
the
rest of you rag merchants a bad name.

Good morning Bert. Yes, you are correct. A person can argue against
the
laws that have been set by precedent. Almost 99.9% of the cases that are
argued against precedent are doomed to failure.

If a sailing vessel has it's sails raised and his propeller is functioning
and driving the boat, then this is a power boat. No argument with that
statement. That sailor actions, as a sailing vessel, would be almost as
stupid as Bill McKee's act of trying to pass a sailing vessel at 25 MPH
and
15 feet distance.

Jim C.

For Bill McKee
 

Jim Carter wrote:


Bill, go back and read what is written in the Collision Regulations. I
have tried to make your feeble brain understand what is written, but you are
too dense to comprehend the regulations. Admiralty Law, in this
definition of "sailing vessel" has been set by precedence. Period! There
is no argument with set law! Did you get that Bill? If not, keep
rereading until you can comprehend.

Jim C.


Maybe we should take a collection and send Bill to a Power Squadron course.
I'm sure his fellow boaters would thank us.

For Bill McKee
 

Bert Robbins wrote:


Too many times I have seen a "sailboat" with a sail kind of half assed up
but the motor is in the water and you can see the propellor's trail and
these idiots think they are "under sail." These are the people that give the
rest of you rag merchants a bad name.


Nothing illegal about using the motor to assist when the wind is
low...or coming from an awkward direction and the sailor wants to make a
bit of time, as long as he realizes he is now acting as a motor boat.

For Bill McKee
 

"Dr. Dr. Smithers" Ask Me about my Phd @ Diploma Mill .com wrote in
message ...
Jim,
I thought the sailboat was a power boat if the engine was running, even if
the propeller was not engaged.

Good morning Dr. Smithers.

You would be incorrect in your thinking. According to Admiralty Law with
regards to the wording of the Collision Regulations, a sailing vessel
becomes a power vessel when the propulsion machinery is engaged. The
engine can be running for the vessel to be considered a sailing vessel, but
the running gear, ( shafts and props,) cannot be turning. If you will read
the sections of the Collision Regulations that I have pointed out to Bill
McKee, you will see, clearly, the definitions.

Jim C.

For Bill McKee... Hey! Look Everybody
 

"P Fritz" not only made a boating post, but it actually makes some sense!


15 feet might be a little close but...

Oh really? Do you think that passing another boat only 15 feet away is
perfectly safe & normal? Especially when you have hundreds of yards, if
not miles, of open water to pass much further away?

...the wake that a power boat on plane produces is smaller and faster, the
sailboat gets a quick nudge when the wake hits the hull.
...the wake of a power boat pushes running a what most people assume to be
no-wake speed will bounce the sail boat around much harsher.

Which wake do you want to encounter?


That depends very much on the boat, the boater, and the surrounding
conditions. On open water I don't see any reason at all for a motorboat
to come with 15 feet of me. It's rude.


P Fritz wrote:
It also depends on the size and displacement of the boat. A small ski type
boat is going to throw up little wake on plane compared to a 35 ft cruiser.


You got that right. It doesn't even have to be 35 feet... many planing
cuddy boats, especially deep-vee hulls, leave a steep & ugly wake at
full throttle. Yet the drivers are convinced that they are doing you a
favor by passing close at full speed instead of slowing down.

ALL boaters should remember that they are responsible... and for a
motorboat, the wake is part of that responsibility. You are as much
responsible for the wake made by your boat as you would be for a bullet
you fired from a gun.

Fair Skies
Doug King

For Bill McKee... Hey! Look Everybody
 

Harry Krause wrote:

I give all boats I encounter as wide a berth as possible, and I'm always
conscious of my wake. If I think I am close enough to rock some guy
anchored in a fishing boat or trolling, I slow down. I usually cut
across the stern of sailboats. It doesn't cost anything to be careful
and courteous out on the water.

If only you could practice that kind of courtesy in this NG, rather than
restricting it to your cyberboating.

--
Skipper